2016-2017 Offseason Trade Speculation Thread

[moonslav59]

As of right now, I'm not worried about AB's splits vs LHP/RHP

 

I'm not with Beni based on a tiny 2016 sample size vs LHPs, but I do think it is telling that he was basically platooned this year, so one of our best hitters vs LHP, Young, could play.

 

Now that Papi is gone, Young can DH, so I think Beni is going to get a very long look vs LHPs, before any decision is made to platoon him.

 

I do think some players we have right now are better utilized as platoon players.

 

Young is fantastic vs LHPs but barely decent vs RHPs. Out of 144 players with 250+ PAs vs LHPs since 2015, Yoiung has the 5th best OPS at .984! He ranks 273rd out of 331 players with over 300 PAs vs RHPs with a .665 OPS. Not platooning Young is a waste of a valuable asset.

 

Pablo has been horrific vs LHPs over the last few years, but even in 2014 was decent vs righties. Assuming he's even in the conversation, if he returns to near form from 2013-2016, he should be platooned. How horrific has he been vs lefties? He placed 189th out of 190 in OPS vs LHPs at .572. Nobody had more PAs and a lower OPS vs lefties than Pablo since 2013! NOBODY! He's been even worse over the last 2 years (.464 vs LHPs). However, he's been fairly decent vs RHPs since 2013 at .784. He placed 75th out of 224 players with 1000+ PAs vs RHPs since 2013. He's at .733 vs RHPs since 2015- barely worse than Shaw. At best, he should be platooned at DH or 3B.

 

Some other notable splits from 2015-2016:

 

Player vs RHPs / vs LHPs

JBJ .871/ .748

Betts .870/ .829

Pedey .812/ .822

HRam .766/ .916

Bogey .762/ .883

Shaw .751/ .761

Holt .727/ .684

 

There are some big differentials above, but not enough to platoon anyone else. I would consider moving guys up or down in the line-up a little bit based on their splits.

 

[moonslav59]

I think what you might see is both Benintendi and JBJ sitting against some, but not all, lefties, with Young replacing them for those games.

 

That makes sense, but probably only when they need days off, so maybe 6-10 games total over a year. The other 25-35 games vs LHPs, he should DH. He has to play vs lefties.

[Hugh2]

I'm not with Beni based on a tiny 2016 sample size vs LHPs, but I do think it is telling that he was basically platooned this year, so one of our best hitters vs LHP, Young, could play.

 

Now that Papi is gone, Young can DH, so I think Beni is going to get a very long look vs LHPs, before any decision is made to platoon him.

 

I do think some players we have right now are better utilized as platoon players.

 

Young is fantastic vs LHPs but barely decent vs RHPs. Out of 144 players with 250+ PAs vs LHPs since 2015, Yoiung has the 5th best OPS at .984! He ranks 273rd out of 331 players with over 300 PAs vs RHPs with a .665 OPS. Not platooning Young is a waste of a valuable asset.

 

Pablo has been horrific vs LHPs over the last few years, but even in 2014 was decent vs righties. Assuming he's even in the conversation, if he returns to near form from 2013-2016, he should be platooned. How horrific has he been vs lefties? He placed 189th out of 190 in OPS vs LHPs at .572. Nobody had more PAs and a lower OPS vs lefties than Pablo since 2013! NOBODY! He's been even worse over the last 2 years (.464 vs LHPs). However, he's been fairly decent vs RHPs since 2013 at .784. He placed 75th out of 224 players with 1000+ PAs vs RHPs since 2013. He's at .733 vs RHPs since 2015- barely worse than Shaw. At best, he should be platooned at DH or 3B.

 

Some other notable splits from 2015-2016:

 

Player vs RHPs / vs LHPs

JBJ .871/ .748

Betts .870/ .829

Pedey .812/ .822

HRam .766/ .916

Bogey .762/ .883

Shaw .751/ .761

Holt .727/ .684

 

There are some big differentials above, but not enough to platoon anyone else. I would consider moving guys up or down in the line-up a little bit based on their splits.

 

 

I think platooning him may have been a good way to young at bats and ease AB in. He had pretty good splits in the minors.

[moonslav59]

I think platooning him may have been a good way to young at bats and ease AB in. He had pretty good splits in the minors.

 

Yes, he did, and that's why I'm not worried about Beni's splits right now.

 

I don't think we will spend on a DH this winter with the luxury limit looming. I think Young will DH vs LHPs as a DH and give Beni and JBJ days off for rest vs LHPs. When Betts sits, it might be best to sit him vs lefties too, but his splits are close. Either way, Young should play vs all LH'd starters.

 

Now, that brings us to who DHs when we face righties and when Young is in the OF vs some lefties?

 

Pablo vs RHPs jumps out at me.

 

HanRam vs some righties could give him some rest, so he may not need as many total days off. Shaw could play 1B on those days HR DH's, but then we're stuck with Pablo, Holt or Hernandez at 3B. I'm not happy about that for too many games.

 

Swihart could enter the picture later in the season.

 

Moncada could as well, which would bump Shaw to 1B and HR to DH or just keep Pablo pof 3B and at DH permanently.

 

Travis has an outside chance to get in the miz and allow HR to DH more often.

[moonslav59]

If we try to stay under the limit to rest the tax, I think all we can get are 1-2 RP'er.

[Eddy Ballgame]

I totally agree that Swihart's highest value is as a catcher. That's one reason Sox management has committed to starting him there this year, most likely at AAA to start the year.

 

I'm all for that.

 

My point has been that sometimes certain scenarios arise where teams decide to maybe go against what's in the best interest of a young player's development out of a higher need on the big club. It's not beyond debate to imagine a LF or DH platoon at some point this year. The DH platoon could be established day one as Young rates to be the DH vs LHPs and the slot vs RHPs is open as of now. Young may end up being the FT DH, but that might depend on how Pablo and Shaw are looking.

 

It wasn't in Bogey's best interest to move him to 3B in 2012, but we ended up needing him there. I caught a lot of flack back then for suggesting he be given some time there earlier than the 10 games they ended up giving him there before his call-up during a heated pennant drive. I was told then, "You don't understand player development protocol." Weeks later, he was moved to 3B.

 

It wasn't in Swihart's best interest to move him to LF, but once Young got hurt and Holt as well, he was quickly moved to LF after a short time in AAA learning the position. I called for giving him some reps at another position long before the short time he got. Again, I caught flack and was told "it's not going to happen!" Well, it did.

 

On Moncada last year, I was sharply critized for saying, "we should begin giving him reps in practice at 3B sooner rather than later." Again, I was told I have "no understanding or prospect promotion protocol!" I was also told, "No prospects should ever be forced to change levels and positions within one season. It just doesn't happen." It did. I even caught grief after it happened and was still called "wrong".

 

I suggested we start playing Beni in LF earlier than we did. Again, I was told that he's not going to be called up to play LF. I know the Beltran deal fell through, but the fact was there was a chance he might be needed there, and in my opinion, they waited too long to give him some time in LF. As with Bogey, the moves worked well, so it's hard to argue with the timing of the moves Sox management made, but certainly debating the subject of exploring various scenarios where a player might be needed outside his comfort zone or developmental progress protocol is not something that should be shut down.

 

Winning a championship is priority number one, and if a Young-Beni LF platoon is the best way to find Young PAs vs LHPs, it could happen at some point this year, depending on who is hitting lefties at DH and how well, and how Beni has done vs lefties over a significant amount of time. I doubt it happens, because I have faith in Beni, but I seriously doubt they demote Beni or keep playing him vs lefties, if he is showing a .550 OPS and we have better options (Young or Swihart). I also think that if Pablo flops or gets hurt, and we haven't acquired a LH'd hitter, it's certainly possible- not probable- that Swihart could end up DH'ing with Young as a platoon.

 

Maybe some here think it's futile to discuss unlikely scenarios, or they think it is so unlikely it doesn't warrant debate, but it's winter, and what else is there to talk about? I do think these conversations are going on with Sox management as they go over their depth charts and various scenarios involving injuries or unfortunate starter struggles.

 

 

Brian Butterfield said last year that the reason they don't have young players taking reps at different positions is because they have enough on their plate as it is and they want them to be as comfortable as possible transitioning through the different levels. The guy has a terrific reputation as a fielding coach, so he must be doing something right.

 

I'm not saying it's "futile" to discuss unlikely scenarios, I just don't think you'll ever see a top young prospect platoon or DH simply out of "necessity." Before they ever consider making Blake Swihart the DH against righties next season, they'll get someone outside of the organization. Same thing with Moncada, who you've mentioned in several DH scenarios over the last few months. It's not going to happen at this stage of their development. In a September pennant race? Sure, but you'd never see it in the beginning of the season.

 

As far as Benintendi goes, he'll play against plenty of lefties this season. If they are in a pennant race in September and he struggled against lefties all season, then sure, they might sit him against lefties, but it would never happen in "May or June."

 

As someone mentioned, they'll find Young at bats while resting all 3 outfielders once in a while and in the DH spot, but they aren't going to play Young against every lefty at the expense of Benintendi's development.

[moonslav59]

Brian Butterfield said last year that the reason they don't have young players taking reps at different positions is because they have enough on their plate as it is and they want them to be as comfortable as possible transitioning through the different levels. The guy has a terrific reputation as a fielding coach, so he must be doing something right.

 

I'm not for scrapping the traditional protocol for young player development, but as we have seen, there are times when team needs outweigh the protocol.

 

I'm not saying it's "futile" to discuss unlikely scenarios, I just don't think you'll ever see a top young prospect platoon or DH simply out of "necessity."

 

Actually, you did say "there's no debate", but I'm glad you have softened your stance.

 

Before they ever consider making Blake Swihart the DH against righties next season, they'll get someone outside of the organization. Same thing with Moncada, who you've mentioned in several DH scenarios over the last few months. It's not going to happen at this stage of their development. In a September pennant race? Sure, but you'd never see it in the beginning of the season.

 

I have never said either of these guys should be in the DH or platoon role to start the season, so maybe we're not so far apart.

 

I also do think we may look outside the organization to fill a new opening due to injury or struggles before using Swi or Moncada in a role where they don't play much, but as I have pointed out, a RH'd platoon player would have started 77% of the games in 2016 and have other opportunities to play in games not started. I think you may be over blowing the sitting on the bench aspect of those roles.

 

As far as Benintendi goes, he'll play against plenty of lefties this season. If they are in a pennant race in September and he struggled against lefties all season, then sure, they might sit him against lefties, but it would never happen in "May or June."

 

Not May, but if he's at .550 by mid-June or later, they may start sitting him more and more vs lefties, if they have another player with much better numbers. If Young is at DH, there might not be anyone else to platoon anyway. Again, I doubt it happens, but there is, in my opinion, a chance he may be a platoon player by the end of July. Slight, but not out of the realm of debate.

 

As someone mentioned, they'll find Young at bats while resting all 3 outfielders once in a while and in the DH spot, but they aren't going to play Young against every lefty at the expense of Benintendi's development.

 

As we look right now, I don't see anyone taking over Young's role vs LHPs as a DH or back-up OF'er, so I don't foresee the need to have Young platoon with Beni. I did mention one scenario that is not all that far-fetched:

 

Swihart is raking in AAA, especially vs LHPs. Leon and Vaz are doing a fabulous job as 1-2 catchers. We're in the race. Beni is at or below .550 vs LHPs. I could see Swihart being called up to play vs LHPs. Maybe it wouldn't be until August or September, but I'm not sure how long we will support a .550 OPS vs LHPs in a pennant race all in the name of prospect development protocol.

 

That's all I'm saying.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Brian Butterfield said last year that the reason they don't have young players taking reps at different positions is because they have enough on their plate as it is and they want them to be as comfortable as possible transitioning through the different levels. The guy has a terrific reputation as a fielding coach, so he must be doing something right.

 

I'm not for scrapping the traditional protocol for young player development, but as we have seen, there are times when team needs outweigh the protocol.

 

I'm not saying it's "futile" to discuss unlikely scenarios, I just don't think you'll ever see a top young prospect platoon or DH simply out of "necessity."

 

Actually, you did say "there's no debate", but I'm glad you have softened your stance.

 

Before they ever consider making Blake Swihart the DH against righties next season, they'll get someone outside of the organization. Same thing with Moncada, who you've mentioned in several DH scenarios over the last few months. It's not going to happen at this stage of their development. In a September pennant race? Sure, but you'd never see it in the beginning of the season.

 

I have never said either of these guys should be in the DH or platoon role to start the season, so maybe we're not so far apart.

 

I also do think we may look outside the organization to fill a new opening due to injury or struggles before using Swi or Moncada in a role where they don't play much, but as I have pointed out, a RH'd platoon player would have started 77% of the games in 2016 and have other opportunities to play in games not started. I think you may be over blowing the sitting on the bench aspect of those roles.

 

As far as Benintendi goes, he'll play against plenty of lefties this season. If they are in a pennant race in September and he struggled against lefties all season, then sure, they might sit him against lefties, but it would never happen in "May or June."

 

Not May, but if he's at .550 by mid-June or later, they may start sitting him more and more vs lefties, if they have another player with much better numbers. If Young is at DH, there might not be anyone else to platoon anyway. Again, I doubt it happens, but there is, in my opinion, a chance he may be a platoon player by the end of July. Slight, but not out of the realm of debate.

 

As someone mentioned, they'll find Young at bats while resting all 3 outfielders once in a while and in the DH spot, but they aren't going to play Young against every lefty at the expense of Benintendi's development.

 

As we look right now, I don't see anyone taking over Young's role vs LHPs as a DH or back-up OF'er, so I don't foresee the need to have Young platoon with Beni. I did mention one scenario that is not all that far-fetched:

 

Swihart is raking in AAA, especially vs LHPs. Leon and Vaz are doing a fabulous job as 1-2 catchers. We're in the race. Beni is at or below .550 vs LHPs. I could see Swihart being called up to play vs LHPs. Maybe it wouldn't be until August or September, but I'm not sure how long we will support a .550 OPS vs LHPs in a pennant race all in the name of prospect development protocol.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

I haven't "softened my stance" at all. You won't ever see prospects like Moncada, Swihart or Benintendi "DH" at this stage of their development. In September, when their minor league seasons are over and the big club has no better alternative, then maybe, but never as a consideration before then.

 

You've mentioned several times that Swihart could break camp with the Sox as some "super sub." That will never happen, either. Moncada, Benintendi & Swihart will play every day somewhere. That's what I mean by "not debatable."

 

I'll agree to disagree on everything else. It's not "prospect protocol," either. There is very sound reasoning why young players need to play every day. If the Sox need a left handed DH in July, they'll go get one outside of the organization before they bring Swihart up to do it. Again, September is different. One thing that I will mention is that you seem to assume that "anyone" can DH. Trust me, that's not the case.

[moonslav59]

You've mentioned several times that Swihart could break camp with the Sox as some "super sub." That will never happen, either. Moncada, Benintendi & Swihart will play every day somewhere. That's what I mean by "not debatable."

 

I never said I thought it might happen, except when there was talk of a 26 man roster in the new CBA.

 

I did say there was merit to the idea, especially if Swihart was starting 77% of the games as a RH'd DH plus occasionally playing some in LF and at Catcher after late inning PH situations. The one advantage would be a higher willingness to PH for a catcher knowing we have 3 on the roster. Again, this is a highly unlikely scenario.

[moonslav59]

I haven't "softened my stance" at all.

 

Well, you went from saying "no debate" to you saying you "are not saying it's not futile to discuss it."

[moonslav59]

It's not "prospect protocol," either.

 

Maybe we're just arguing semantics here, but I do think it is common high prospect protocol to try and play them everyday with normal rest days involved.

 

There is very sound reasoning why young players need to play every day.

 

I have never disagreed with this philosophy, but there are times and examples where team needs over-ride prospect protocol or whatever you want to call it. The Sox did it last year with Beni in early August. They called him up and sat him often, mostly vs LHPs. He started 18 of the team's 23 games before getting hurt. That's 75% of the games- actually less than a pure RH'd platoon for the Sox would have been in 2016 with the Sox (77%).

Before they ever consider making Blake Swihart the DH against righties next season, they'll get someone outside of the organization. Same thing with Moncada, who you've mentioned in several DH scenarios over the last few months. It's not going to happen at this stage of their development. [/b]

 

Another factor is the luxury tax limit which may restrict our ability to go outside the organization to get a significantly better player than Swihart or Moncada.

 

They already did what you say they'd never do with Swihart in 2016, so I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine a similar need and solution in 2017- mid-season.

 

[/b]

[Eddy Ballgame]

It's not "prospect protocol," either.

 

Maybe we're just arguing semantics here, but I do think it is common high prospect protocol to try and play them everyday with normal rest days involved.

 

There is very sound reasoning why young players need to play every day.

 

I have never disagreed with this philosophy, but there are times and examples where team needs over-ride prospect protocol or whatever you want to call it. The Sox did it last year with Beni in early August. They called him up and sat him often, mostly vs LHPs. He started 18 of the team's 23 games before getting hurt. That's 75% of the games- actually less than a pure RH'd platoon for the Sox would have been in 2016 with the Sox (77%).

Before they ever consider making Blake Swihart the DH against righties next season, they'll get someone outside of the organization. Same thing with Moncada, who you've mentioned in several DH scenarios over the last few months. It's not going to happen at this stage of their development. [/b]

 

Another factor is the luxury tax limit which may restrict our ability to go outside the organization to get a significantly better player than Swihart or Moncada.

 

They already did what you say they'd never do with Swihart in 2016, so I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine a similar need and solution in 2017- mid-season.

 

[/b]

 

What did they do with Swihart in 2016?

[Dojji]

Any interest in signing RHP Luke Hochevar? He's been solid in the bullpen for the last 2 years with KC. Looks like a solid middle reliever who might be able to take on setup duties in a pinch

[moonslav59]

What did they do with Swihart in 2016?

 

They took him out of his catcher development protocol plan and had him play LF in AAA for 11 games, then they called him up to play LF for 12.5 games, before getting injured (83%).

 

He sat 2.5 games during that stretch so Young could play. He played 83% of the innings in those games once called up. That's not far from a 77% RH'd platoon.

 

Who knows what might have happened had Young not played CF for 3 days in that stretch as JBJ sat. (They also had Young give Papi and Betts a day off in that stretch.)

 

Had Swihart not gotten hurt, it would have been interesting to see what they'd have done with him and Young.

 

 

They broke the protocol with Beni for the whole month of August by platooning him with Young. We had a great need and he filled it, perhaps at the expense of his "playing everyday" plan (or protocol as I call it) in the minors.

 

They broke protocol with Moncada and changed his position the same year he was promoted to AA, and then they actually called him up to the bigs to play 3B after playing just 10 games at 3B in AA. If that's not throwing prospect development to the wind out of a significant team need, then I don't know what is.

[moonslav59]

They took him out of his catcher development protocol plan and had him play LF in AAA for 11 games, then they called him up to play LF for 12.5 games, before getting injured (83%).

 

He sat 2.5 games during that stretch so Young could play. He played 83% of the innings in those games once called up. That's not far from a 77% RH'd platoon.

 

Who knows what might have happened had Young not played CF for 3 days in that stretch as JBJ sat. (They also had Young give Papi and Betts a day off in that stretch.)

 

Had Swihart not gotten hurt, it would have been interesting to see what they'd have done with him and Young.

 

 

They broke the protocol with Beni for the whole month of August by platooning him with Young. We had a great need and he filled it, perhaps at the expense of his "playing everyday" plan (or protocol as I call it) in the minors.

 

They broke protocol with Moncada and changed his position the same year he was promoted to AA, and then they actually called him up to the bigs to play 3B after playing just 10 games at 3B in AA. If that's not throwing prospect development to the wind out of a significant team need, then I don't know what is.

 

 

You keep saying it doesn't happen, won't happen, can't happen, but it has in very recent Red Sox history.

[Eddy Ballgame]

It's not "prospect protocol," either.

 

Maybe we're just arguing semantics here, but I do think it is common high prospect protocol to try and play them everyday with normal rest days involved.

 

There is very sound reasoning why young players need to play every day.

 

I have never disagreed with this philosophy, but there are times and examples where team needs over-ride prospect protocol or whatever you want to call it. The Sox did it last year with Beni in early August. They called him up and sat him often, mostly vs LHPs. He started 18 of the team's 23 games before getting hurt. That's 75% of the games- actually less than a pure RH'd platoon for the Sox would have been in 2016 with the Sox (77%).

Before they ever consider making Blake Swihart the DH against righties next season, they'll get someone outside of the organization. Same thing with Moncada, who you've mentioned in several DH scenarios over the last few months. It's not going to happen at this stage of their development. [/b]

 

Another factor is the luxury tax limit which may restrict our ability to go outside the organization to get a significantly better player than Swihart or Moncada.

 

They already did what you say they'd never do with Swihart in 2016, so I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine a similar need and solution in 2017- mid-season.

 

[/b]

 

They took him out of his catcher development protocol plan and had him play LF in AAA for 11 games, then they called him up to play LF for 12.5 games, before getting injured (83%).

 

He sat 2.5 games during that stretch so Young could play. He played 83% of the innings in those games once called up. That's not far from a 77% RH'd platoon.

 

Who knows what might have happened had Young not played CF for 3 days in that stretch as JBJ sat. (They also had Young give Papi and Betts a day off in that stretch.)

 

Had Swihart not gotten hurt, it would have been interesting to see what they'd have done with him and Young.

 

 

They broke the protocol with Beni for the whole month of August by platooning him with Young. We had a great need and he filled it, perhaps at the expense of his "playing everyday" plan (or protocol as I call it) in the minors.

 

They broke protocol with Moncada and changed his position the same year he was promoted to AA, and then they actually called him up to the bigs to play 3B after playing just 10 games at 3B in AA. If that's not throwing prospect development to the wind out of a significant team need, then I don't know what is.

 

At what point did any of these guys DH? Which player started the season in a platoon?

[moonslav59]

At what point did any of these guys DH?

 

None.

 

Which player started the season in a platoon?

 

Beni.

[Eddy Ballgame]

It's not "prospect protocol," either.

 

Maybe we're just arguing semantics here, but I do think it is common high prospect protocol to try and play them everyday with normal rest days involved.

 

There is very sound reasoning why young players need to play every day.

 

I have never disagreed with this philosophy, but there are times and examples where team needs over-ride prospect protocol or whatever you want to call it. The Sox did it last year with Beni in early August. They called him up and sat him often, mostly vs LHPs. He started 18 of the team's 23 games before getting hurt. That's 75% of the games- actually less than a pure RH'd platoon for the Sox would have been in 2016 with the Sox (77%).

Before they ever consider making Blake Swihart the DH against righties next season, they'll get someone outside of the organization. Same thing with Moncada, who you've mentioned in several DH scenarios over the last few months. It's not going to happen at this stage of their development. [/b]

 

Another factor is the luxury tax limit which may restrict our ability to go outside the organization to get a significantly better player than Swihart or Moncada.

 

They already did what you say they'd never do with Swihart in 2016, so I don't think it's far-fetched to imagine a similar need and solution in 2017- mid-season.

 

[/b]

 

Beni.

 

Andrew Benintendi was called up on August 2nd. Beginning on August 5th, he started 19 games in a row before he was injured.

 

Try again.

[Dojji]

It's too easy to get a bit overeager about guys like Andrew Benintendi. Similar to the miracle we thought we'd discovered with Travis Shaw's early surge this year, great performances by a rookie do not automatically mean his career will be great.

 

We are a little too dependent on Benintendi being a starting big leaguer in his first full season with no hiccups or problems at all. At the moment I'm all for taking some of that pressure off Benintendi because it's clear that while the start was promising, it's still a long way between where he is now and where he needs to be.

[moonslav59]

I found a few examples of Red Sox prospects or 1st or second year players (under 24) playing DH:

1973 Ben Oglivie played 16 of his 94 games at DH in his second year after under 250 PAs his rookie year (1972).

1974 Cecil Cooper DH'd 39 out of 102 games played his first year with over 110 PAs in MLB.

1974 Jim Rice DH'd 13 of his 24 games before his 1975 rookie year.

1975 Juan Beniquez DH'd 20 out of his 28 games (his second significant year).

1977 Ted Cox DH'd all of his 13 starts his first year.

1978 Ted Cox DH'd 10 out of 89 starts his second year.

1980 Cico walker started half of his 14 games as a DH in his first year in MLB. He never DH'd again.

1987 Sam Horn started all 40 of his games as DH in his very first year in MLB. He never DH'd in the minors.

1988 Sam Horn started all of his 16 games at DH.

1992 Eric Wedge started all 15 of his games as DH. He never DH'd in the minors, and like Swihart, was a catching prospect.

2011 Ryan Lavarnway was called up and started 7 of 9 games as a DH. He was a highly regarded catcher prospect at the time.

2012 Ryan Lavarnway DH'd in 16 out of 41 starts.

 

These are the examples I've found since I became a Sox fan in 1971. It's enough to show, it's not something that never happens to young players and prospects with hope at other positions. Maybe Sam Horn was the only DH type player, but he never DH'd in the minors, so I guess they were grooming him for 1B not DH..

 

 

[moonslav59]

It's too easy to get a bit overeager about guys like Andrew Benintendi. Similar to the miracle we thought we'd discovered with Travis Shaw's early surge this year, great performances by a rookie do not automatically mean his career will be great.

 

We are a little too dependent on Benintendi being a starting big leaguer in his first full season with no hiccups or problems at all. At the moment I'm all for taking some of that pressure off Benintendi because it's clear that while the start was promising, it's still a long way between where he is now and where he needs to be.

 

Shaw had bad numbers at AAA and barely decent numbers at AA.

 

Apples and oranges, but we should be cautious with beni hopes..

[mvp 78]

Shaw had bad numbers at AAA and barely decent numbers at AA.

 

Apples and oranges, but we should be cautious with beni hopes..

 

Had a WRC+ of 165 in AA in 2014. That's barely decent?

[moonslav59]

Had a WRC+ of 165 in AA in 2014. That's barely decent?

 

I was referring to his .795 OPS at AA from 2012-2014.

 

His AAA numbers are more recent than 2014, and .715 OPS in 668 PAs in AAA is frightening to me.

 

He's shown he can have extended periods of plus hitting, so I have no given up hope, but I'm afraid he might be more like the .715 guy than the .795 AA guy or even the .754 MLB guy.

[moonslav59]

Also, Shaw's 2015 in AA was only 208 PAs.

 

 

Travis Shaw by half seasons since 2012:

 

2012

.957 at A+ (423 PA) GREAT

.781 AA (133) GOOD

 

2013

.744 AA (352) Not GOOD (for a 1Bman)

.722 AA (177) Not GOOD

 

2014

.954 AA (208) GREAT

.752 AAA (346) DECENT

 

2015

.674 AAA (322) HORRIBLE

.813 MLB (248) Very GOOD

 

2016

.788 MLB (337) GOOD

.619 MLB (193) HORRIBLE

 

So, since the second half of 2012:

1 GREAT

1 Very GOOD

2 GOOD

1 DECENT

2 Not GOOD

2 HORRIBLE

 

He's been not good to horrible for 4 of the last 9 half seasons (5 of 9, if you count .752 as not good).

 

He's been decent to good for 3 of the 9 (one could count .752 as not good).

 

He's been very good to great for 2 of 9.

 

 

I don't see a lot of hope for "very good to great" in 2017.

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by moonslav59

[Dojji]

Completely irrelevant to my point. "But he's super talented, dawg!" is not actually a rebuttal against the idea of the league in general figuring Benintendi out and forcing him to spend a month or two struggling to adjust. If it were, Xander Bogaerts would have had an even better season than he did.

[Kimmi]

If we try to stay under the limit to rest the tax, I think all we can get are 1-2 RP'er.

 

That might be all we need.

[notin]

I know that you were against the trade from the get go.

 

IMO, it was hardly a panic move. We needed a pitcher. Iglesias was expendable. We were dealing from an area of strength.

 

As I said, I would make that trade under the same circumstances every day of the week.

 

Of course we needed a pitcher. At then time of that deal, the Sox were a second place team that had a rotation featuring both Felix Doubront snd Brandon Workman...

[a700hitter]

I think we need a big bat to replace Ortiz. Our pitching and defense is not good enough without a top offense. I am skeptical about Beltran being the answer. He is up there in age and very creaky. Wear and tear have caused him to have off seasons two of the last three years.

[moonslav59]

Of course we needed a pitcher. At then time of that deal, the Sox were a second place team that had a rotation featuring both Felix Doubront snd Brandon Workman...

 

Sounds desperate.

[Spudboy]

I think we need a big bat to replace Ortiz. Our pitching and defense is not good enough without a top offense. I am skeptical about Beltran being the answer. He is up there in age and very creaky. Wear and tear have caused him to have off seasons two of the last three years.

 

Not to worry my friend.

 

The big increase in WAR gleaned at 3rd base and left field will make up enough of the void that you won't even notice he is gone.

 

I learned this from the experts here at Talksox so it must be true.

 

Right?