2016-2017 Offseason Trade Speculation Thread

[moonslav59]

The deal actually would have been more palatable if we had traded just for Kelly, or for Kelly plus something else we didn't have to pay much money for. Somebody in the Sox scouting department may have really sold them that Craig was going to come back strong.

 

Craig ranked 22nd in OPS from 2011 and 2013. It was an outlandish thought to think there was a significant chance Craig would bounce back after a serious foot injury in the WS against the Sox in 2013.

The high salary of Craig also counts as $6.2M a year, far less than his actual salary.

The deal sucked. I'm not trying to claim otherwise, but there were certainly some reasoning behind it.

[moonslav59]

Most people that bitch about the Lackey trade, including myself, are packaging it with letting Lester go.

 

If we had Lester and Lackey in 2015 instead of Porcello and Kelly, it's very conceivable we would have made the playoffs.

 

And as you know, when you're a Sox fan every season matters.

 

Agreed.

 

Half way through 2014, we all knew Lester was gone, so in that context, trading Lackey and tanking the 2015 season rotation made some sense. Had Kelly gone on to do well and Craig returned to 2011-2013 form, nobody would have cared about Lackey's one year of remaining control.

 

[Bellhorn04]

Craig ranked 22nd in OPS from 2011 and 2013. It was an outlandish thought to think there was a significant chance Craig would bounce back after a serious foot injury in the WS against the Sox in 2013.

The high salary of Craig also counts as $6.2M a year, far less than his actual salary.

The deal sucked. I'm not trying to claim otherwise, but there were certainly some reasoning behind it.

 

There's always some reasoning behind a deal.

[a700hitter]

There's always some reasoning behind a deal.

They aren't just picking names from a hat. Hopefully they have good reasons for every move.

[Emp9]

I didn't like the trade from the first moment I heard about it, but at least my reasons for not liking it have changed now.

 

Moon has convinced me that whether it was right or wrong, the FO had decided that XBo was the SS of the future for the Sox, making Iggy expendable. My position now is that if their intent was to trade Iggy they didn't get nearly enough for him. They gave up a GG-calber SS, runner up ROY batting ~.300 for an aging pitcher in the twilight of his career. It was a bad trade. IMO the FO should have gotten more for him, and if they wanted a pitcher they could have gotten one for less than Jose Iglesias. We got hoodwinked on that one.

 

I will give you that XBo is a better overall SS, due to the fact that Iggy will never approach what XBo does at the plate, but defensively I'll take Iggy every time. (BTW, he's cut his errors this year from 11 in 2015 to five this year and has a better than average fielding &-age while making successful plays that other SS don't make).

 

At the end of the day I still maintain that the team would be better with cost-controlled Iggy & XBo on the left side of the IF - you can put them wherever you want - and having spent Pandamoney on pitching.

 

It was clearly a mistake, both short term and long term.

 

DD was a big fan of Iglesias. Maybe we make a trade to get him back & move XB to 3B? Sorry, just day dreaming here...

[Nick]

DD was a big fan of Iglesias. Maybe we make a trade to get him back & move XB to 3B? Sorry, just day dreaming here...

 

I'll pass on getting another Boras client...

[Eddy Ballgame]

I'll pass on getting another Boras client...

 

I doubt that even Boras could spin an injury prone, light-hitting SS with some attitude questions into any kind of significant contract.

[S5Dewey]

DD was a big fan of Iglesias. Maybe we make a trade to get him back & move XB to 3B? Sorry, just day dreaming here...

 

That's just cruel to bring that up where I can read it. :D

[S5Dewey]

I doubt that even Boras could spin an injury prone, light-hitting SS with some attitude questions into any kind of significant contract.

 

Here's what he's been since being traded to the Tigers:

Iglesias was named as a reserve for the American League at the 2015 All-Star Game.[17] On September 5, it was announced that Iglesias suffered a non-displaced small fracture in his right middle finger at the PIP joint after being hit on the hand by a pitch, and the team announced he would be out for at least two weeks.[18] With the Tigers later falling out of the AL Central race, the team elected to not activate him from the DL for the remainder of the season. During the 2015 season, Iglesias posted a .300 batting average in 416 at-bats, with 17 doubles, two home runs and 23 RBIs.

 

Iglesias made one trip to the disabled list in 2016, after suffering a left hamstring strain in August but still reached career highs with 137 games, 467 at-bats and 26 doubles.

 

If you don't like Iglesias' attitude you must HATE Josh Donaldson's attitude. Iggy had one dust-up with a player in Detroit while Donaldson pretty much got run out of California after having a confrontation with the FO, then had the same kind of confrontation in Toronto.

 

On January 15, 2016, the Tigers avoided arbitration with Iglesias, agreeing on a one-year, $2.1 million contract.

 

Thanks, Wikipedia!

Edited October 19, 2016 by S5Dewey

[S5Dewey]

DD was a big fan of Iglesias. Maybe we make a trade to get him back & move XB to 3B? Sorry, just day dreaming here...

 

DD likes defense, which is one reason why I like DD. He also tried to trade for JBJ while in Detroit, which I why I'd be surprised to see JBJ on the trade block in the off season. Which pleases me greatly.

[Spudboy]

Here's what he's been since being traded to the Tigers:

Iglesias was named as a reserve for the American League at the 2015 All-Star Game.[17] On September 5, it was announced that Iglesias suffered a non-displaced small fracture in his right middle finger at the PIP joint after being hit on the hand by a pitch, and the team announced he would be out for at least two weeks.[18] With the Tigers later falling out of the AL Central race, the team elected to not activate him from the DL for the remainder of the season. During the 2015 season, Iglesias posted a .300 batting average in 416 at-bats, with 17 doubles, two home runs and 23 RBIs.

 

Iglesias made one trip to the disabled list in 2016, after suffering a left hamstring strain in August but still reached career highs with 137 games, 467 at-bats and 26 doubles.

 

If you don't like Iglesias' attitude you must HATE Josh Donaldson's attitude. Iggy had one dust-up with a player in Detroit while Donaldson pretty much got run out of California after having a confrontation with the FO, then had the same kind of confrontation in Toronto.

 

On January 15, 2016, the Tigers avoided arbitration with Iglesias, agreeing on a one-year, $2.1 million contract.

 

Thanks, Wikipedia!

 

How much time did he lose with the micro-fractures?

 

How did his attitude become such an issue?

[Eddy Ballgame]

Here's what he's been since being traded to the Tigers:

Iglesias was named as a reserve for the American League at the 2015 All-Star Game.[17] On September 5, it was announced that Iglesias suffered a non-displaced small fracture in his right middle finger at the PIP joint after being hit on the hand by a pitch, and the team announced he would be out for at least two weeks.[18] With the Tigers later falling out of the AL Central race, the team elected to not activate him from the DL for the remainder of the season. During the 2015 season, Iglesias posted a .300 batting average in 416 at-bats, with 17 doubles, two home runs and 23 RBIs.

 

Iglesias made one trip to the disabled list in 2016, after suffering a left hamstring strain in August but still reached career highs with 137 games, 467 at-bats and 26 doubles.

 

I've read enough of your Iglesias posts on here to come to the conclusion that you're obsessed with the guy, but you conveniently omit the fact that he missed the the entire 2014 season due to injury. By the way, Iglesias had a total of 30 extra base hits in 513 plate appearances this year, which is absolutely pathetic. It's less than how many Mark Loretta had for the '06 Sox. Despite Loretta's ".300 plus average," the Sox didn't want to bring him back for his complete lack of pop. They supposedly didn't feel Pedroia was ready, but they thought he would at least contribute what Loretta did.

 

I hope Iglesias enjoyed that all star game, as I would be shocked if it wasn't his first and last.

 

If you don't like Iglesias' attitude you must HATE Josh Donaldson's attitude. Iggy had one dust-up with a player in Detroit while Donaldson pretty much got run out of California after having a confrontation with the FO, then had the same kind of confrontation in Toronto.

 

Two completely different players. One is a perennial MVP candidate, while the other is a flashy soon to be utility infielder.

 

On January 15, 2016, the Tigers avoided arbitration with Iglesias, agreeing on a one-year, $2.1 million contract.

 

Thanks, Wikipedia!

 

I hope he saves his money.

[S5Dewey]

How much time did he lose with the micro-fractures?

 

How did his attitude become such an issue?

 

He lost one full season (2014) with the microfractures in his shins. At the time it was said that had he reported his discomfort earlier his stint on the DL probably would have been shorter but instead he tried to play through it. Bad idea.

 

The attitude issue came from a national televised game when Iggy was 'called out' in the dugout by the catcher for not trying hard enough to get to a ball that was hit up the middle. Iggy took exception to it and a pushy-pushy ensued. Frankly, these are the things that happen frequently on teams - they just don't happen in the dugout. IMO both Iggy and the catcher were wrong in this instance. The catcher for confronting Iggy in the dugout - it should have been kept in the clubhouse - and Iggy for it becoming physical - what little physical there was of it.

My take on it FWIW is that there was some bad blood between them before that happened and it just came to a head then. But what to I know?

[moonslav59]

DD was a big fan of Iglesias. Maybe we make a trade to get him back & move XB to 3B? Sorry, just day dreaming here...

 

Like Moncada, Dubon, Swihart and Kopech for Verlander and Iggy?

[Spudboy]

He lost one full season (2014) with the microfractures in his shins. At the time it was said that had he reported his discomfort earlier his stint on the DL probably would have been shorter but instead he tried to play through it. Bad idea.

 

The attitude issue came from a national televised game when Iggy was 'called out' in the dugout by the catcher for not trying hard enough to get to a ball that was hit up the middle. Iggy took exception to it and a pushy-pushy ensued. Frankly, these are the things that happen frequently on teams - they just don't happen in the dugout. IMO both Iggy and the catcher were wrong in this instance. The catcher for confronting Iggy in the dugout - it should have been kept in the clubhouse - and Iggy for it becoming physical - what little physical there was of it.

My take on it FWIW is that there was some bad blood between them before that happened and it just came to a head then. But what to I know?

 

I never liked that trade. Many justify it as Peavey "stabilizing the rotation'. Nonsense. He sucked.

[Eddy Ballgame]

Like Moncada, Dubon, Swihart and Kopech for Verlander and Iggy?

 

When you consider all factors, I wouldn't trade any "two" of those guys for Verlander/Iglesias, forget all 4 of them.

[Nick]

I like the long term potential of Moncada/Xander vs Iglesias/Xander left side of infield.....former won't cost us anything....Moncada with very minimum six more years of team control....BTW, isn't he #1 prospect in mlb?

[moonslav59]

When you consider all factors, I wouldn't trade any "two" of those guys for Verlander/Iglesias, forget all 4 of them.

 

I wouldn't either. I was joking.

 

Verlander is being paid huge money and is getting older.

[S5Dewey]

I never liked that trade. Many justify it as Peavey "stabilizing the rotation'. Nonsense. He sucked.

 

Jake Peavey may be the most overrated late-season addition to the Red Sox staff ever.

 

Moon has made a believer out of me in that the FO decided he was trade bait because Bogaerts was waiting in the wings. IMO that was mistake #1.

 

Mistake #2 was not getting enough for him when they traded him away. He was the runner-up ROY SS, batting ~.300 with (I believe) 3 years of control left, and what they got for him was an aging pitcher on the brink of the end of his career.

 

Ugh.

[moonslav59]

Jake Peavey may be the most overrated late-season addition to the Red Sox staff ever.

 

Moon has made a believer out of me in that the FO decided he was trade bait because Bogaerts was waiting in the wings. IMO that was mistake #1.

 

Mistake #2 was not getting enough for him when they traded him away. He was the runner-up ROY SS, batting ~.300 with (I believe) 3 years of control left, and what they got for him was an aging pitcher on the brink of the end of his career.

 

Ugh.

 

I've been side-by-side with you on this one from way back.

 

I was arguing for Iggy to be our FT SS, before he even made MLB.

 

I'm a sucker for outstanding SS defense, especially ones with superior range.

 

I remember doing study after study on how great-ranged SSs can make 60-100 more plays than bad ones over 150 games, which if you added the 75 hits saved to the guys BA over 500 ABs, he'd hit .150 higher than his projected .200 BA.

[moonslav59]

Back in the day...when we were having all those Iggy discussions, there wasn't a man on earth that wouldn't have taken Iggy in a heartbeat had they been assured he's have a .275 BA after almost 1500 MLB PAs.

 

The argument was always about him not ever likely hitting over .225.

[Dojji]

Would not have minded keeping Iggy, I was disappointed when he was traded, but Iglesias' defense is more flashy than brilliant if I'm honest. He has those eye popping plays, but in the final analysis he isn't all that at SS -- definitely good defensively but nowhere near as fantastic as he looks when he's having one of his moments. He'd be an asset for his team on defense, and hit more than well enough to make an All-Star of himself, but at the end of the day the eye test overrates Iglesias slightly IMHO.

 

I will readily concede that Iggy at SS and Bogey at third is probably better on paper than any combination of third-and-short we've had since Garciaparra and Mueller in 2003, if the two young players develop properly.

[moonslav59]

Would not have minded keeping Iggy, I was disappointed when he was traded, but Iglesias' defense is more flashy than brilliant if I'm honest. He has those eye popping plays, but in the final analysis he isn't all that at SS -- definitely good defensively but nowhere near as fantastic as he looks when he's having one of his moments. He'd be an asset for his team on defense, and hit more than well enough to make an All-Star of himself, but at the end of the day the eye test overrates Iglesias slightly IMHO.

 

I will readily concede that Iggy at SS and Bogey at third is probably better on paper than any combination of third-and-short we've had since Garciaparra and Mueller in 2003, if the two young players develop properly.

 

He has seemed to boot more than his share of routine plays, but out of 34 SSs with over 2500 innings since 2011, here's how Iggy ranks (including games he was playing hurt or while recovering):

 

UZR/150

22.0 Simmons

11.6 Cozart

10.9 Hardy

10.2 B Ryan

10.0 IGGY

9.6 Barmes

9.6 Crawford

 

Approx DRS per 3000 innings:

94 B Ryan

70 Simmons

66 Barmes

40 Tulo

30 Crawford

30 Cozart

24 Hardy

17 Hecha

14 IGGY

9 Peralta

 

 

 

[Bellhorn04]

Jake Peavey may be the most overrated late-season addition to the Red Sox staff ever.

 

Moon has made a believer out of me in that the FO decided he was trade bait because Bogaerts was waiting in the wings. IMO that was mistake #1.

 

Mistake #2 was not getting enough for him when they traded him away. He was the runner-up ROY SS, batting ~.300 with (I believe) 3 years of control left, and what they got for him was an aging pitcher on the brink of the end of his career.

 

Ugh.

 

Let it go man, seriously. Life's too short.

[Bellhorn04]

He has seemed to boot more than his share of routine plays, but out of 34 SSs with over 2500 innings since 2011, here's how Iggy ranks (including games he was playing hurt or while recovering):

 

UZR/150

22.0 Simmons

11.6 Cozart

10.9 Hardy

10.2 B Ryan

10.0 IGGY

9.6 Barmes

9.6 Crawford

 

Approx DRS per 3000 innings:

94 B Ryan

70 Simmons

66 Barmes

40 Tulo

30 Crawford

30 Cozart

24 Hardy

17 Hecha

14 IGGY

9 Peralta

 

 

Can you tell us where Iggy ranks in WAR since we traded him?

[S5Dewey]

Let it go man, seriously. Life's too short.

 

I'm not right very often, so when I am I want to make the best of it!!

[S5Dewey]

Would not have minded keeping Iggy, I was disappointed when he was traded, but Iglesias' defense is more flashy than brilliant if I'm honest. He has those eye popping plays, but in the final analysis he isn't all that at SS -- definitely good defensively but nowhere near as fantastic as he looks when he's having one of his moments. He'd be an asset for his team on defense, and hit more than well enough to make an All-Star of himself, but at the end of the day the eye test overrates Iglesias slightly IMHO.

 

I tend to agree with this. However, without having the expertise to do the research I believe the number of plays he makes that a (let's say) 'replacement SS' wouldn't make outweighs the errors he makes on routine balls.

[Dojji]

He has seemed to boot more than his share of routine plays, but out of 34 SSs with over 2500 innings since 2011, here's how Iggy ranks (including games he was playing hurt or while recovering):

 

UZR/150

22.0 Simmons

11.6 Cozart

10.9 Hardy

10.2 B Ryan

10.0 IGGY

9.6 Barmes

9.6 Crawford

 

Approx DRS per 3000 innings:

94 B Ryan

70 Simmons

66 Barmes

40 Tulo

30 Crawford

30 Cozart

24 Hardy

17 Hecha

14 IGGY

9 Peralta

 

 

 

 

So like I said. Definitely good. But nothing the world has never seen before.

[Kimmi]

Totally agree, but does anyone really think we'd have won in 2015 with Lackey?

 

His last contract year was 2015.

 

Again, I'm not defending the deal. I disliked it at the time, even though I liked Kelly and thought he showed promise. I thought we should have and could have done better. I know that seems like my never-ending mantra, but I see what others get for worse pitchers.

 

Personally, I had no problem with the deal at the time. I liked it, not only for Kelly, but I was confident that Craig would be able to bounce back from injury.

[Kimmi]

Most people that bitch about the Lackey trade, including myself, are packaging it with letting Lester go.

 

If we had Lester and Lackey in 2015 instead of Porcello and Kelly, it's very conceivable we would have made the playoffs.

 

And as you know, when you're a Sox fan every season matters.

 

That's the thing, IMO. It's not really letting Lackey go after we lost Lester. It was losing Lester in the first place.