2016-2017 Offseason Trade Speculation Thread

[kenmeister]

I think that if a trade occurs that involves one of our outfielders than you look to replace him. I would do nothing with respect to third base. Rather than sign someone for even a year, I would take a chance that between Shaw, Sandoval, and Moncada the job will get done. I don't see any urgency with respect to third base.

 

Agreed; I don't think you run out and get a third baseman.

 

I also want to give Blake Swihart every chance to regain his job as catcher.

 

So I'd start out next year with

 

LF - Benitendi

CF - Bradley

RF - Betts

3B - Sandoval

SS - Bogaerts

2B - Pedroia

1B - Ramirez

C- Swihart & Leon

DH - Shaw or Holt when they aren't playing

 

That's assuming no additional changes, like signing Encarcion.

[S5Dewey]

They weren't hell-bent on trading him. It just so happened that when they were trying to swing a deal for Peavy, in a 3-team trade, Iggy was what they had to give up.

 

This is not Jeff Bagwell we're talking about. Iggy is a slightly above-average player who has missed one full season plus chunks of 2 others and has a modest career WAR of 5.6.

 

No. They WERE Hell-bent on trading him because with the commitment they'd made to Bogaerts at SS they had no place for him at the time. Or at least they thought they didn't. So they jumped at the first semi-reasonable offer that came along.

 

It's amazing to me how posters find ways to run Iggy down. DD thought enough of him to give up one of his best prospects for him, then also thought enough of him to leave him at SS when Peralta came back from his suspension, moving Peralta to the OF. Iggy ain't dog meat. He's still the starting SS for a pretty good ML team.

[Bellhorn04]

No. They WERE Hell-bent on trading him because with the commitment they'd made to Bogaerts at SS they had no place for him at the time. Or at least they thought they didn't. So they jumped at the first semi-reasonable offer that came along.

 

It's amazing to me how posters find ways to run Iggy down. DD thought enough of him to give up one of his best prospects for him, then also thought enough of him to leave him at SS when Peralta came back from his suspension, moving Peralta to the OF. Iggy ain't dog meat. He's still the starting SS for a pretty good ML team.

 

The fact that he's a starter on a 'pretty good team' doesn't mean anything. As has already been brought up. Lugo was the starter on the 2007 champs.

[Bellhorn04]

Iggy is on pace to collect his 100th major league RBI sometime around the middle of next year. Quite a milestone!

[moonslav59]

Agreed; I don't think you run out and get a third baseman.

 

I also want to give Blake Swihart every chance to regain his job as catcher.

 

So I'd start out next year with

 

LF - Benitendi

CF - Bradley

RF - Betts

3B - Sandoval

SS - Bogaerts

2B - Pedroia

1B - Ramirez

C- Swihart & Leon

DH - Shaw or Holt when they aren't playing

 

That's assuming no additional changes, like signing Encarcion.

 

Shaw's a much better fielder than Pablo, so why not swap their positions?

 

You also left Young out as our DH vs LHPs. The guy has been one of MLB's best hitters vs lefties- surely he's better than Shaw of Holt, especially vs LHPs and maybe vs RHPs as well.

[moonslav59]

Iggy is on pace to collect his 100th major league RBI sometime around the middle of next year. Quite a milestone!

 

...and Bogey recorded his 1415th Assist 400 innings after Iggy did (which is about 1/9th of his career at SS).

[Jack Flap]

This is not Jeff Bagwell we're talking about. Iggy is a slightly above-average player who has missed one full season plus chunks of 2 others and has a modest career WAR of 5.6.

 

This. I mean, I liked Iggy as much as the next guy, and I realize this wasn't the trade of the century for the Red Sox or anything, but out of all the players we've let go in recent years, he really isn't one I stay up at night pining for.

 

Hot take: we may rue the loss of Frankie Montas more than Iglesias in the long run.

[Jack Flap]

That was during the weird period where letting good players go was very profitable with draft picks. Between VMart and Beltre, they pulled in Bradley, Swihart, Owens and Barnes.

 

Not signing Beltre was a mistake, but I'm not sure anyone knew he was going to look like a hall of fame candidate right now.

 

That decision is really a fascinating exercise in what might have been. We wouldn't have Bradley and Swihart if we'd re-signed Beltre and kept Youk at first, but on the other hand, we'd still have Rizzo.

[moonslav59]

This. I mean, I liked Iggy as much as the next guy, and I realize this wasn't the trade of the century for the Red Sox or anything, but out of all the players we've let go in recent years, he really isn't one I stay up at night pining for.

 

Hot take: we may rue the loss of Frankie Montas more than Iglesias in the long run.

 

No doubt.... or Espinoza ...or Margot...

[moonslav59]

That decision is really a fascinating exercise in what might have been. We wouldn't have Bradley and Swihart if we'd re-signed Beltre and kept Youk at first, but on the other hand, we'd still have Rizzo.

 

 

...and if we still had Rizzo (instead of AGon), then we'd still have Crawford!

 

I felt that keeping Youk at 1B might prolong his career. (He was already on the cusp of a nosedive.)

 

I felt VMart's value as a 1Bman would not be worth his salary. (He certainly earned his money.)

 

As it turned out getting Barnes and Owens for VMart did not mitigate the loss.

 

I liked the idea keeping Beltre. (But, getting JBJ and Swihart and using the "saved" money to extend AGon made sense.)

 

There were a lot of big decisions made that had long-lasting ramifications in more ways than we can imagine.

 

[oldtimer]

Shaw's a much better fielder than Pablo, so why not swap their positions?

 

You also left Young out as our DH vs LHPs. The guy has been one of MLB's best hitters vs lefties- surely he's better than Shaw of Holt, especially vs LHPs and maybe vs RHPs as well.

 

I have very little hope that Sandoval can successfully return to 3rd base with mainly his defense suspect and with a year of rust it can only be hoped that he can back to hitting at an acceptable level. I agree that Shaw is a much better fielder but we would have to accept his less than stellar hitting at least until Moncada comes up. Of course Moncada is still unproven. As a #1 prospect, we should have reason to believe he can morph into an acceptable hitter in the ML but in his first attempt he didn't show much. I do hope he can make it up by the all star break.

 

I definitely would use Young as a DH against LHP and Swihart against RHP provided he is not already catching.

 

My choice of catchers would be Swihart and Velazquez.

[moonslav59]

I have very little hope that Sandoval can successfully return to 3rd base with mainly his defense suspect and with a year of rust it can only be hoped that he can back to hitting at an acceptable level. I agree that Shaw is a much better fielder but we would have to accept his less than stellar hitting at least until Moncada comes up. Of course Moncada is still unproven. As a #1 prospect, we should have reason to believe he can morph into an acceptable hitter in the ML but in his first attempt he didn't show much. I do hope he can make it up by the all star break.

 

I definitely would use Young as a DH against LHP and Swihart against RHP provided he is not already catching.

 

My choice of catchers would be Swihart and Velazquez.

 

It's Vazquez not Velazquez.

 

I think Pablo and Swihart will battle for DH vs RHPs. I think Shaw and Holt will battle for 3B with Hernandez as an outside threat.

 

Moncada may challenge by May or June.

[Jack Flap]

No doubt.... or Espinoza ...or Margot...

 

Absolutely. I just bring up Montas because he's the other piece in that trade that everyone seems to forget about.

[cp176]

Iggy is on pace to collect his 100th major league RBI sometime around the middle of next year. Quite a milestone!

 

"iggy" is gone basically because he could not seem to hit at all. Great glove - 0 hit. I hope that he has a great career but Mark Belanger he was not. We are far better off as is!

[cp176]

I have very little hope that Sandoval can successfully return to 3rd base with mainly his defense suspect and with a year of rust it can only be hoped that he can back to hitting at an acceptable level. I agree that Shaw is a much better fielder but we would have to accept his less than stellar hitting at least until Moncada comes up. Of course Moncada is still unproven. As a #1 prospect, we should have reason to believe he can morph into an acceptable hitter in the ML but in his first attempt he didn't show much. I do hope he can make it up by the all star break.

 

I definitely would use Young as a DH against LHP and Swihart against RHP provided he is not already catching.

 

My choice of catchers would be Swihart and Velazquez.

 

My speculation is that the Sox see replacing Papi's bat as a priority. I do not think that dealing with the situation from within is really what they want to do. i also speculate that signing a bat will not impact what they decide to do about their pitching in general at all. Not one bit. John Henry truly knows that when he sells the club he will make more money than is even imaginable. He is meeting his payroll and doing pretty well I think. The third base situation will quite probably play itself out and become a positive for us going forward.

[moonslav59]

Absolutely. I just bring up Montas because he's the other piece in that trade that everyone seems to forget about.

 

Yeah, I got it, and it does make the Iggy side of the debate look stronger.

[moonslav59]

"iggy" is gone basically because he could not seem to hit at all. Great glove - 0 hit. I hope that he has a great career but Mark Belanger he was not. We are far better off as is!

 

Iggy was hitting pretty well the year they traded him, and he has a .275 career BA. Belanger's career BA was .228.

 

Iggy doesn't have to be the defender Belanger was, if he hits 47 points higher the rest of the way.

 

Iggy's career line .275/.325/.353/.678

 

Sox 3B in 2016 .242/.306/.380/.686

 

Most feel OBP is more important than SLG, it looks like the career Iggy would have been about a wash on offense when compared to Shaw & Co., but our team defense on the left side would be much better.

[cp176]

My memory has failed me. But - I'm still very pleased with guy we have there now.

[cp176]

My memory has failed me. But - I'm still very pleased with guy we have there now.

 

Honestly - what made me think that he just couldn't hit a lick?

[moonslav59]

My memory has failed me. But - I'm still very pleased with guy we have there now.

 

Who? Shaw/Hill/Holt?

[Kimmi]

This is where you and I have a difference of opinion. I look at all trades not only in terms of what the trade does for us this year but also what it does for (or to!) us in future years.

 

I agree that moves need to be made with both the long and short terms in mind. I have said many times that I do not like the 'win now at any cost' philosophy.

 

That said, trading away Iggy really did not sacrifice this team's future. Getting Peavy was a 'win now' move, but it wasn't 'at any cost'. Iggy was expendable. The team likely did not even see him as part of the team's future.

 

It's similar in that sense to the Kimbrel trade, which I really didn't like in terms of the cost to us. However, our farm system was deep enough that giving up those 4 prospects did not sacrifice our future, and those prospects likely did not have a place on the team.

 

I understand the idea that if you're going to trade players, at least get better value for them, but that's not always realistic when you're a team in need, especially at the deadline.

[S5Dewey]

Honestly - what made me think that he just couldn't hit a lick?

 

I have no idea. In his last year with Boston he hit .330 with a .785 OPS.

[Kimmi]

The biggest problem with the 'win now at any cost' philosophy is that it doesn't guarantee anything. Look at the Tigers, who took on some big contracts and sold away their farm. They had a good run at making the postseason, but won zero championships. Now, it appears that they are going into rebuild mode, which is usually inevitable after sacrificing the future like that. If you go all out and come away empty, then it really hurts.

 

However, if a team does end up winning a World Series Championship, which the Red Sox did after the Iggy trade, then that changes the entire perspective of the trade or trades. After all, that's the whole point.

 

That's not saying that I agree with the philosophy of winning now no matter what the cost, but if you do win the championship, I think it makes it worth it.

[Kimmi]

I have no idea. In his last year with Boston he hit .330 with a .785 OPS.

 

With a .376 BABIP.

[S5Dewey]

I agree that moves need to be made with both the long and short terms in mind. I have said many times that I do not like the 'win now at any cost' philosophy.

 

That said, trading away Iggy really did not sacrifice this team's future. Getting Peavy was a 'win now' move, but it wasn't 'at any cost'. Iggy was expendable. The team likely did not even see him as part of the team's future.

 

It's similar in that sense to the Kimbrel trade, which I really didn't like in terms of the cost to us. However, our farm system was deep enough that giving up those 4 prospects did not sacrifice our future, and those prospects likely did not have a place on the team.

 

I understand the idea that if you're going to trade players, at least get better value for them, but that's not always realistic when you're a team in need, especially at the deadline.

 

Well, that certainly touches on my two points. Mistake #1 was finding Iggy expendable. I don't see much doubt that the team would have been better off in 2016 with Iggy and XBo on the left side. Mistake #2 was not getting good value for Iggy when they traded him. It's pretty hard to justify not getting fair value for something without calling it a panic move. Especially with that deadline looming.

 

The FO blew it, and we got stuck with bloated Sandoval and his bloated contract.

[Kimmi]

Well, that certainly touches on my two points. Mistake #1 was finding Iggy expendable. I don't see much doubt that the team would have been better off in 2016 with Iggy and XBo on the left side. Mistake #2 was not getting good value for Iggy when they traded him. It's pretty hard to justify not getting fair value for something without calling it a panic move. Especially with that deadline looming.

 

The FO blew it, and we got stuck with bloated Sandoval and his bloated contract.

 

Sorry, but I pretty much disagree with this entire post.

 

Iggy certainly was expendable. At the time, the team had very good depth on the left side of the infield. He was not in the team's future plans. That makes him expendable.

 

They did get good value for Iggy. Did they overpay? Probably (and that's debatable), but that's how deadline deals work. It's not a panic move when a team chooses to strengthen its chances at the deadline by filling a need.

 

The FO gave us another World Series Ring. I would hardly call that blowing it.

 

Not getting Lester re-signed because they offered him $70 million - that's blowing it.

[Bellhorn04]

I have no idea. In his last year with Boston he hit .330 with a .785 OPS.

 

Yes, he did have a Sandy Leon run. When Leon was en fuego this year it was very reminiscent of Iggy's run. One of those freakish streaks in baseball that has to be enjoyed while it lasts like a shooting star.

[S5Dewey]

Sorry, but I pretty much disagree with this entire post.

 

Iggy certainly was expendable. At the time, the team had very good depth on the left side of the infield. He was not in the team's future plans. That makes him expendable.

 

They did get good value for Iggy. Did they overpay? Probably (and that's debatable), but that's how deadline deals work. It's not a panic move when a team chooses to strengthen its chances at the deadline by filling a need.

 

The FO gave us another World Series Ring. I would hardly call that blowing it.

 

Not getting Lester re-signed because they offered him $70 million - that's blowing it.

 

I'n not denying that he was expendable in the eyes of the FO. From a logical standpoint, that's why he got traded. A team would never trade anyone whom they don't consider to be expendable one way or another. Again, Mistake #1.

 

Getting good value in the trade would have been trading Middlebrooks for Peavey. The position of "It's not a panic move when a team chooses to strengthen its chances at the deadline by filling a need" would justify any trade made at the deadline, and I'm not buying into that!

[Bellhorn04]

I'n not denying that he was expendable in the eyes of the FO. From a logical standpoint, that's why he got traded. A team would never trade anyone whom they don't consider to be expendable one way or another. Again, Mistake #1.

 

Getting good value in the trade would have been trading Middlebrooks for Peavey. The position of "It's not a panic move when a team chooses to strengthen its chances at the deadline by filling a need" would justify any trade made at the deadline, and I'm not buying into that!

 

It's not likely any team wanted Middlebrooks at the time. He was on the DL and his 2013 OPS was .617.

 

You have to be realistic here. The other teams aren't run by suckers. They want something back.

[Bellhorn04]

Cherington is generally regarded as a very patient type.

Dombrowski is generally regarded as Mr. Win Now.

 

There is some definite irony in Cherington taking heat for moving Iglesias to Dombrowski.