A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[Kimmi]

The more weight you lose, the more prominent your cauliflower ear becomes. It's strictly to scare the other opponents and for leverage to a lesser extent (i.e. the cauliflower ear can act as a lever).

 

LOL That sounds like as good a reason as anything.

[S5Dewey]

I've always wondered why the wrestlers don't just wrestle at their current weight rather than going through those unhealthy eating habits to make a lower weight.

 

Definitely off-topic for baseball, but since you asked....

 

Wrestling is also a team sport, with points awarded for a win in each weight class counting toward the team's overall scores. If a team has two outstanding wrestlers at one weight class (say, the 145 lb maximum class) and one of them weighs 144 lbs and the other weighs 138 lbs the lighter wrestler may try to lose two pounds so he can wrestle at the 136 lb class to give his team a better chance of accumulating points.

 

On the other side of that coin, if it's known that the team's upcoming bout is against a team who has an outstanding wrestler at the 145 lb class but has a wrestler who isn't as good at the 152 lb class that 144 lb wrestler (above) may try to put on two pounds so he can avoid the outstanding 145 lb wrestler and instead wrestle against someone who's not as good. This will will give the 144 lb wrestler a better chance to win which will give his team a better chance to accumulate points.

 

Clear? Clear as mud?

[notin]

Like wrestling?

 

The biggest issue with wrestling is once you get above the college level, it becomes very difficult to follow. The most popular version at a professional level is more show business than sport....

[Hugh2]

Personally, I think all combative sports are the toughest and it's really not a debate. They are both 100% anaerobic and aerobic with the the potential to cause physical harm.

 

I've played just about every sport in my life but the ones I excelled the most at were wrestling and boxing. I wrestled for 8 years, and boxed/thai boxed for 15. I even fought a few pro-amueter fights in NYC in my lifetime.

 

If you've never boxed or wrestled before just try imagining sprinting up a steep hill as fast as you can for 3 straight minutes.....now imagine someone slamming you into the ground and punching you in the face at the same time.

 

Wrestling is considered a team sport, in the same sense that baseball is but in reality it's the collection of individual performances. Although I do think there is more of team aspect to baseball because you do need to work together as a team by being in place in the field and pitchers and catchers require a lot of coperation with each other too.

[Spudboy]

It was an analogy that related to the G stress and mental stress that car racers are under. One mistake and you could be dead.

 

IMO, not a sport...just and adventurous and dangerous game.

 

Who the f*** mentioned G forces? Not me.

 

My point is that because driving a hot car requires so much endurance and because it is so very competitive to even get a glimpse of pro driving pretty much only good athletes make the grade.

 

If you do not know that then you just do not know that.

 

It is fact. Anyone who has raced motor vehicles or follows racing is aware of it.

 

Whatever.

[moonslav59]

I'm going to go with the two catchers, Vazquez to raise his OPS by 100, and Leon to drop by 100 points.

 

I think Bogaerts will show some improvement, but 100 points is probably stretching it. And I think Pedroia will have a bit of a drop off, but again, 100 points is probably stretching it.

 

Obviously, much of this depends on health.

 

Pretty spot on.

[moonslav59]

Who the f*** mentioned G forces? Not me.

 

My point is that because driving a hot car requires so much endurance and because it is so very competitive to even get a glimpse of pro driving pretty much only good athletes make the grade.

 

If you do not know that then you just do not know that.

 

It is fact. Anyone who has raced motor vehicles or follows racing is aware of it.

 

Whatever.

 

I brought up G forces. You responded to it.

 

I brought up flying an AF jet as an analogy to the dangers and stresses (G force and otherwise).

 

I never meant to link you to any claim of G force as a stress, but it is often used by those claiming race car driving is a difficult physical activity or achievement.

[Spudboy]

I brought up G forces. You responded to it.

 

I brought up flying an AF jet as an analogy to the dangers and stresses (G force and otherwise).

 

I never meant to link you to any claim of G force as a stress, but it is often used by those claiming race car driving is a difficult physical activity or achievement.

 

Moon driving a car at those speeds and for that duration puts a lot of demand on both body and mind. I agree that it is not a conventional "sport" like football or baseball. It is an athletic endeavor non the less.

[S5Dewey]

The biggest issue with wrestling is once you get above the college level, it becomes very difficult to follow. The most popular version at a professional level is more show business than sport....

 

Where I live wrestling is still a very traditional, somewhat conservative and disciplined sport. A handshake is still a "gentleman's handshake" and wrestlers aren't allowed to compete if they have facial hair. They say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" a lot and I never see a wrestler contest a call or show dissatisfaction in any way.

 

Here's an anecdote for you: A few years ago I saw a wrestler in a State Championship bout that was so closely contested that it was in Sudden Death. The first wrestler to score a point would be the State Champion in his weight class. The bout had already gone through 3-2 minute periods along with three overtime periods with neither wrestler scoring a point and had gone to the tie-breaker of Sudden Death. After about two more minutes of wrestling the more aggressive wrestler (who was on top of the other wrestler and trying to turn him) said to the official, "C'mon - he's stalling!". Intentionally stalling would have resulted in a one point penalty to the stalling wrestler. The official instead penalized the more aggressive wrestler one point for poor sportsmanship, ending the match and deciding the State Championship in favor of the other wrestler. The losing wrestler dropped his head, turned around and went back to his team without a word. The coach and the official had a very civil discussion about it, the coach walked away, and that's the way it ended.

I don't necessarily think the "poor sportsmanship" call was the right one under the circumstances but it was the one the official made and it was respected with little fanfare.

 

IMO one of the (several) reasons wrestling hasn't "caught on" with the general public is because the general public no longer values these things. They'd rather see a batter go nose-to-nose with an umpire over a called 3rd strike or a football player put a cheap shot on another player. They see talking trash and insults as a part of the game. Since TV ratings dictates what the American people get to see on their TV's and they don't value what happens on a wrestling mat they don't get exposed to wrestling. Economics at work.

 

I could go on about other reasons I don't think wrestling is popular, but this is, after all, a baseball forum.

[Hugh2]

Where I live wrestling is still a very traditional, somewhat conservative and disciplined sport. A handshake is still a "gentleman's handshake" and wrestlers aren't allowed to compete if they have facial hair. They say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" a lot and I never see a wrestler contest a call or show dissatisfaction in any way.

 

Here's an anecdote for you: A few years ago I saw a wrestler in a State Championship bout that was so closely contested that it was in Sudden Death. The first wrestler to score a point would be the State Champion in his weight class. The bout had already gone through 3-2 minute periods along with three overtime periods with neither wrestler scoring a point and had gone to the tie-breaker of Sudden Death. After about two more minutes of wrestling the more aggressive wrestler (who was on top of the other wrestler and trying to turn him) said to the official, "C'mon - he's stalling!". Intentionally stalling would have resulted in a one point penalty to the stalling wrestler. The official instead penalized the more aggressive wrestler one point for poor sportsmanship, ending the match and deciding the State Championship in favor of the other wrestler. The losing wrestler dropped his head, turned around and went back to his team without a word. The coach and the official had a very civil discussion about it, the coach walked away, and that's the way it ended.

I don't necessarily think the "poor sportsmanship" call was the right one under the circumstances but it was the one the official made and it was respected with little fanfare.

 

IMO one of the (several) reasons wrestling hasn't "caught on" with the general public is because the general public no longer values these things. They'd rather see a batter go nose-to-nose with an umpire over a called 3rd strike or a football player put a cheap shot on another player. They see talking trash and insults as a part of the game. Since TV ratings dictates what the American people get to see on their TV's and they don't value what happens on a wrestling mat they don't get exposed to wrestling. Economics at work.

 

I could go on about other reasons I don't think wrestling is popular, but this is, after all, a baseball forum.

 

I think some of it has to do with people having little ideal what they are looking at and also their quench for blood. You watch an MMA match today and everyone in the crowd boos when the fight goes to the ground they want to see guys bang.

 

It's like in baseball when chicks only dig the long ball. However there are many of us dedicated fans who can just as well get excitement out of a pitching duel and watching great defense. In my opinion wrestling is one of the great sports, but it just isn't sexy enough for today.

[notin]

Where I live wrestling is still a very traditional, somewhat conservative and disciplined sport. A handshake is still a "gentleman's handshake" and wrestlers aren't allowed to compete if they have facial hair. They say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" a lot and I never see a wrestler contest a call or show dissatisfaction in any way.

 

Here's an anecdote for you: A few years ago I saw a wrestler in a State Championship bout that was so closely contested that it was in Sudden Death. The first wrestler to score a point would be the State Champion in his weight class. The bout had already gone through 3-2 minute periods along with three overtime periods with neither wrestler scoring a point and had gone to the tie-breaker of Sudden Death. After about two more minutes of wrestling the more aggressive wrestler (who was on top of the other wrestler and trying to turn him) said to the official, "C'mon - he's stalling!". Intentionally stalling would have resulted in a one point penalty to the stalling wrestler. The official instead penalized the more aggressive wrestler one point for poor sportsmanship, ending the match and deciding the State Championship in favor of the other wrestler. The losing wrestler dropped his head, turned around and went back to his team without a word. The coach and the official had a very civil discussion about it, the coach walked away, and that's the way it ended.

I don't necessarily think the "poor sportsmanship" call was the right one under the circumstances but it was the one the official made and it was respected with little fanfare.

 

IMO one of the (several) reasons wrestling hasn't "caught on" with the general public is because the general public no longer values these things. They'd rather see a batter go nose-to-nose with an umpire over a called 3rd strike or a football player put a cheap shot on another player. They see talking trash and insults as a part of the game. Since TV ratings dictates what the American people get to see on their TV's and they don't value what happens on a wrestling mat they don't get exposed to wrestling. Economics at work.

 

I could go on about other reasons I don't think wrestling is popular, but this is, after all, a baseball forum.

 

True wrestling has a fanbase but I don't think its lack of popularity is rooted in the civility of the coaches. Golf is about as tame of a game as there is, but it's immensely popular.

 

I think the main reason true wrestling (which I call it to distinguish it from WWE) isn't very popular is it doesn't make for exciting television. That's not a knock on the sport. But really, how often do you see it televised? Even during the Olympics, where archery and curling get air time, wrestling rarely does. EPSN will cover everything from baseball to poker to Scrabble, but you never see the NCAA wrestling chamionship televised. I think it's a combination of relatively low amounts of action and an unfamiliar scoring system that prevents the sport from being more mainstream.

 

I like wrestling. It was the most popular sport in my high school and college. But I do think the nature of the sport just isn't what John Q. Public wants to watch on TV. And a lack of a television audience does a lot to hinder the popularity of the sport...

[moonslav59]

Moon driving a car at those speeds and for that duration puts a lot of demand on both body and mind. I agree that it is not a conventional "sport" like football or baseball. It is an athletic endeavor non the less.

 

I have never denied the incredible amount of stresses and physical demands a race car driver has. Not many sports put you so close to death, if you screw up.

 

It is a feat of athleticism to compete in a race.

 

I just don't see it as a sport. My opinion is narrow.

 

I think we are just arguing semantics.

[Bellhorn04]

I think some of it has to do with people having little ideal what they are looking at and also their quench for blood. You watch an MMA match today and everyone in the crowd boos when the fight goes to the ground they want to see guys bang.

 

It's like in baseball when chicks only dig the long ball. However there are many of us dedicated fans who can just as well get excitement out of a pitching duel and watching great defense. In my opinion wrestling is one of the great sports, but it just isn't sexy enough for today.

 

Man, I wonder where that stupid, sexist expression came from sometimes LOL

[Bellhorn04]

I have never denied the incredible amount of stresses and physical demands a race car driver has. Not many sports put you so close to death, if you screw up.

 

It is a feat of athleticism to compete in a race.

 

I just don't see it as a sport. My opinion is narrow.

 

I think we are just arguing semantics.

 

So tell us how you define a sport. We've still got a few months to kill here.

[Spudboy]

Man, I wonder where that stupid, sexist expression came from sometimes LOL

 

It is stupid to say chics dig the long ball. I think everyone enjoys a good dinger. It's exciting.

[moonslav59]

So tell us how you define a sport. We've still got a few months to kill here.

 

It's hard to define without someone finding an activity that fits the definition but just doesn't pass the smell test.

 

I guess my definition is that a "sport" is what I think a sport is. This might be how each of us define it.

 

I don't know, maybe...

 

No machines involved.

 

Physical activity.

 

Physical skill involved.

 

An opponent(s) is needed.

 

I'm not sure if a ball or puck is needed, but just about all the activities I call sports do.

 

I really have no beef with people who call driving a car in circles a sport, but I don't see it as one.

[Kimmi]

Definitely off-topic for baseball, but since you asked....

 

Wrestling is also a team sport, with points awarded for a win in each weight class counting toward the team's overall scores. If a team has two outstanding wrestlers at one weight class (say, the 145 lb maximum class) and one of them weighs 144 lbs and the other weighs 138 lbs the lighter wrestler may try to lose two pounds so he can wrestle at the 136 lb class to give his team a better chance of accumulating points.

 

On the other side of that coin, if it's known that the team's upcoming bout is against a team who has an outstanding wrestler at the 145 lb class but has a wrestler who isn't as good at the 152 lb class that 144 lb wrestler (above) may try to put on two pounds so he can avoid the outstanding 145 lb wrestler and instead wrestle against someone who's not as good. This will will give the 144 lb wrestler a better chance to win which will give his team a better chance to accumulate points.

 

Clear? Clear as mud?

 

That makes sense. I still don't agree with the starvation diets, but at least I understand why they would want to wrestle at a lower weight.

[Kimmi]

Man, I wonder where that stupid, sexist expression came from sometimes LOL

 

LOL

 

As a chick, I can honestly say that while I appreciate a well-timed long ball, I much prefer a well-pitched, well-defended game.

[Kimmi]

It's hard to define without someone finding an activity that fits the definition but just doesn't pass the smell test.

 

I guess my definition is that a "sport" is what I think a sport is. This might be how each of us define it.

 

I don't know, maybe...

 

No machines involved.

 

Physical activity.

 

Physical skill involved.

 

An opponent(s) is needed.

 

I'm not sure if a ball or puck is needed, but just about all the activities I call sports do.

 

I really have no beef with people who call driving a car in circles a sport, but I don't see it as one.

 

There is a wide interpretation of what a sport is.

 

I see car racing as a sport only because it's widely accepted as a sport.

 

I think people are okay if someone doesn't believe an activity is a sport, so long that belief doesn't carry with it the belief that the participants of that activity are somehow lesser 'athletes'. I'm not saying that you or anyone here is doing that, but I get the feeling that this is what the defenders of a certain activity/sport take issue with.

 

I think when someone says car racing is not a sport it carries with it the implication, whether real or only assumed, that race car drivers are less deserving of respect than other athletes? Maybe I'm off base.

 

Having never raced a car, it would be unfair of me to assume that the work, preparation, athleticism, etc. are not on par with that of a football player or a wrestler.

[moonslav59]

I think people are okay if someone doesn't believe an activity is a sport, so long that belief doesn't carry with it the belief that the participants of that activity are somehow lesser 'athletes'. I'm not saying that you or anyone here is doing that, but I get the feeling that this is what the defenders of a certain activity/sport take issue with.

 

True, and I suppose the way I introduced the car racing thing was rather trollish.

 

I did not mean to offend.

[moonslav59]

soxprospects.com notes on winter ball highlights:

 

Roenis Elias started one game, striking out seven and walking four over five innings of one-run ball.

 

Fernando Abad did not give up a run in his two appearances, recording four outs while allowing two hits.

 

Hanley Ramirez started every game this week, going 7 for 21 with all of the hits being singles.

 

Marco Hernandez went 0 for 9 in his three games.

 

Sandy Leon, who made his debut on Monday for Aragua as he warms up for the World Baseball Classic,was not effective after his long layoff, going 1 for 14 with a double and two walks as Aragua was swept by Zulia in four games.

 

Christian Vazquez has been a key contributor in the series, starting all four games and going 5 for 15 with a double and a walk.

 

Rusney Castillo after four games he is at 4 for 19.

[moonslav59]

2014-2016 Ranking Staring Pitchers (250+ IP: sample size 138)

 

WAR

22.7 Kershaw

18.0 Kluber

17.3 Scherzer

17.0 D Price

16.6 C Sale

16.1 Arrieta

14.9 Lester

14.6 Quintana

14.2 Cueto

14.1 Bumgarner

#24 Porcello 9.8

#88 Pomeranz 4.1

 

ERA-

#9 Sale 74

#19 Price 80

#28 Pomeranz 84

#37 Porcello 90

 

WHIP

#4 Sale 1.03

#18 Price 1.12

#30 Porcello 1.18

#37 Pomeranz 1.20

[notin]

Man, I wonder where that stupid, sexist expression came from sometimes LOL

 

From some Nike(?) commercial 20 years ago featuring Greg Maddox, Tom Glavine, and Msrk McGwire in a rare commercial using MLB players. ..

[notin]

soxprospects.com notes on winter ball highlights:

 

Roenis Elias started one game, striking out seven and walking four over five innings of one-run ball.

 

Fernando Abad did not give up a run in his two appearances, recording four outs while allowing two hits.

 

Hanley Ramirez started every game this week, going 7 for 21 with all of the hits being singles.

 

Marco Hernandez went 0 for 9 in his three games.

 

Sandy Leon, who made his debut on Monday for Aragua as he warms up for the World Baseball Classic,was not effective after his long layoff, going 1 for 14 with a double and two walks as Aragua was swept by Zulia in four games.

 

Christian Vazquez has been a key contributor in the series, starting all four games and going 5 for 15 with a double and a walk.

 

Rusney Castillo after four games he is at 4 for 19.

 

Rusney Castillo is in a horrible position.

 

Even if he hits in AAA, his contract will be next to impossible to move. And the Sox can't call him up without pushing or exceeding the tax limit in a manner that cripples their maneuverability....

[moonslav59]

Rusney Castillo is in a horrible position.

 

Even if he hits in AAA, his contract will be next to impossible to move. And the Sox can't call him up without pushing or exceeding the tax limit in a manner that cripples their maneuverability....

 

He could probably play ML ball on some team, but he'll never get the chance until his contract ends.

[notin]

He could probably play ML ball on some team, but he'll never get the chance until his contract ends.

 

Or until the Sox clear a major salary obstacle (Sandoval? )

 

Even the act of adding him to the 40-man roster and making a deal where the Sox pay part of his salary could be cost-prohibitive. And it's not like he would net some game-changing player in return.

 

Castillo can start looking for houses in Rhode Island, which is a shame. I think he is a major league player. But his best chance at returning to the majors might depend on whether or not Price opts out after 2018...

[moonslav59]

Or until the Sox clear a major salary obstacle (Sandoval? )

 

Even the act of adding him to the 40-man roster and making a deal where the Sox pay part of his salary could be cost-prohibitive. And it's not like he would net some game-changing player in return.

 

Castillo can start looking for houses in Rhode Island, which is a shame. I think he is a major league player. But his best chance at returning to the majors might depend on whether or not Price opts out after 2018...

 

Maybe a wild scenario, but say Castillo is killing AAA ball this summer and one of our OF'ers goes down for a month. Adding Castillo to the 40 man for a month, then DFA'ing him again (nobody would take him) and we reset the same situation as we have now. We only owe 1/6 of Castillo's contract towards the luxury tax. That's only about $2M, and it's doable.

 

Probably better just find the next de Aza, Podsednik or DMac type.

[moonslav59]

Or until the Sox clear a major salary obstacle (Sandoval? )

 

Even the act of adding him to the 40-man roster and making a deal where the Sox pay part of his salary could be cost-prohibitive. And it's not like he would net some game-changing player in return.

 

Castillo can start looking for houses in Rhode Island, which is a shame. I think he is a major league player. But his best chance at returning to the majors might depend on whether or not Price opts out after 2018...

 

If we ever are able to get out from under Pablo's contract before it expires, I think the saved money will need to be used for rising arb costs and/or an extension to one of our star kids.

[moonslav59]

Farm depth that might help or make an appearance over the 2017 season:

 

Swihart (C or in a pinch LF or DH)

Hernandez (SS, 2B, 3B)

Sam Travis (1B)

Robbie Scott, Workman, N Ramirez, K Martin, L Ysla (RP'er)

Elias, Owens, Johnson (SP'er or possibly RP'er)

 

Others: Dan Butler ©

R Castillo, J lake (OF)

D Marrero, M Dominguez, M Miller, J Witte (IF)

Devers (late season)?

[S5Dewey]

Rusney Castillo is in a horrible position.

 

Even if he hits in AAA, his contract will be next to impossible to move. And the Sox can't call him up without pushing or exceeding the tax limit in a manner that cripples their maneuverability....

 

He's becoming the next Alan Craig in that we can't move him and we can't play him, albeit for a different reason. Ughhhhh.