A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

[Kimmi]

I implied no such thing about his self-control. The person/people who sought to paint him as an addict are implying that he has no self control. I myself am "big-boned" That is neither a character issue (in this or any context) nor is it a result of a "complete lack of self control." Read what I write and stop processing what you think I mean. It makes communicating with you impossible.

 

I am not trying to paint Pablo as an addict or make excuses for him. I simply used the reference to eating disorders to make a point that calling him lazy or saying that he doesn't care is an unfair assault on his character.

 

It's quite possible that he is just a fat, lazy slob who doesn't care. It's also quite possible that he is anything but lazy, that he cares very deeply, and that he has real issues that cause him to overeat.

 

None of us knows for sure. It is possible to be angry with Pablo for being out of baseball shape and not living up to his contract without assassinating his character.

[a700hitter]

I am not trying to paint Pablo as an addict or make excuses for him. I simply used the reference to eating disorders to make a point that calling him lazy or saying that he doesn't care is an unfair assault on his character.

 

It's quite possible that he is just a fat, lazy slob who doesn't care. It's also quite possible that he is anything but lazy, that he cares very deeply, and that he has real issues that cause him to overeat.

 

None of us knows for sure. It is possible to be angry with Pablo for being out of baseball shape and not living up to his contract without assassinating his character.

And I never said that he was lazy or didn't care. And for the record, I never called him a "fat lazy slob" just a fat slob. I never impugned his character, just his weight which directly affects his performance. You need to stop attributing to me your own preconceived prejudices about being fat. I don't agree with any of them.

[cp176]

It's an overgeneralization, but ...

 

The typical New England fan is quick to attribute a lack of performance to a character flaw. A typical fan elsewhere might be more likely to mindfully seek solutions to the performance problem.

 

The typical MLB player does not expect the fans and media to ignore a lack of performance, but the player probably welcomes solutions over character assassination.

 

Perhaps the character flaw lies with the typical New England fan.

 

It's an overgeneralization, but ...

 

Oh baby - Is this a shot fired across the bow of hard working fun loving New England fans everywhere? It is in fact a huge generalization I think to suggest that fans elsewhere are "more likely to mindfully seek solutions to the performance problem" then us rubes up here in the sticks. My guess = fans are fans. The loudest most obnoxious fan bases seem to exist where the teams perform the best. So if the tradeoff is to be passive refined and respectfully quiet while cheering for a loser, I remain happy to be a New England fan from New England. Now you see, we tend to be very sensitive as well.

[cp176]

The bottom line for me on this topic is this...

 

I have no problem with holding Sandoval responsible for his weight. I understand that it MAY be due to an eating disorder, but lacking that knowledge I also recognize that it also MAY be due to nothing less than gluttony. Either way, he has millions of reasons turn himself around, not even including what should be the most important reason, his health.

 

When John Lester was battling cancer he has the full support of the Red Sox organization behind him. I have no reason to doubt that it's the same with Sandoval. But as I like to say, "Even God only helps those who help themselves".

 

I am right in assuming that you are not comparing Sandoval's situation to that of John Lester's right?

[cp176]

Wait wait... so an attack on someone's character somehow doesn't count as an attack merely because it's accurate? Since when?

 

Pointing out flaws in someone's character and attacking for them may be accurate, may even be correct (a subtly but significantly different thing), and in a few odd cases it might even be the right thing to do, but that doesn't mean that's not exactly what you're doing.

 

I've always found it better policy to confine my comments to a player's actions, and highlight character only as and when the player's actions make that character obvious. Even then, better tread lightly on the mind reading. The judgmental streak in New England society is an ancient pattern in the way we think, and has led to tragedy before.

 

Dojji please must we revisit Salem again?

[a700hitter]

Oh baby - Is this a shot fired across the bow of hard working fun loving New England fans everywhere? It is in fact a huge generalization I think to suggest that fans elsewhere are "more likely to mindfully seek solutions to the performance problem" then us rubes up here in the sticks. My guess = fans are fans. The loudest most obnoxious fan bases seem to exist where the teams perform the best. So if the tradeoff is to be passive refined and respectfully quiet while cheering for a loser, I remain happy to be a New England fan from New England. Now you see, we tend to be very sensitive as well.

There is nothing to be passionate about if your team loses all the time. Have people noticed that Yankee fans are tolerable when they are not contenders?

[Spudboy]

Wait wait... so an attack on someone's character somehow doesn't count as an attack merely because it's accurate? Since when?

 

Pointing out flaws in someone's character and attacking for them may be accurate, may even be correct (a subtly but significantly different thing), and in a few odd cases it might even be the right thing to do, but that doesn't mean that's not exactly what you're doing.

 

I've always found it better policy to confine my comments to a player's actions, and highlight character only as and when the player's actions make that character obvious. Even then, better tread lightly on the mind reading. The judgmental streak in New England society is an ancient pattern in the way we think, and has led to tragedy before.

 

Where did you dig this doozy up?

[Spudboy]

Bingo.

 

But he is a fat slob.

[harmony]

It is an attack on his appearance, not his character. Is it insulting? Yes. And that is how I meant it. If he was slow, I would call him a turtle or a snail. There are all sorts of insults that abound for poor performance. I usually just stick with "he stinks", but Pablo's under-performance is related to his weight, hence I call him a fat slob. He broke his belt for crying out loud. Go find a safe space on some other Sports Forum if you can't handle it.

I welcome the discussion and hope no one (especially you) feels compelled to retreat to a safe space.

[cp176]

Where did you dig this doozy up?

 

came from down your way in the 17th century!!! has a lot in common with that big sign in our state that says - if you don't like us leave and on your way out the door don't let it hit you where the good lord split you. New England is different - I love it.

[harmony]

Where did you dig this doozy up?

Try this source:

 

http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/08/30/pedro_runs_afoul_of_puritan_sox_fans/

[cp176]

Try this source:

 

http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/08/30/pedro_runs_afoul_of_puritan_sox_fans/

 

Great stuff - kind of a neat article although it does tend to give new meaning to the word hindsight. Just not sure that most New Englanders really identify with the Puritans and Mass. bay colony.

[Dojji]

Dojji please must we revisit Salem again?

 

We must revisit it over and over until we get it right.

[a700hitter]

But he is a fat slob.

Character assassin!

[a700hitter]

Great stuff - kind of a neat article although it does tend to give new meaning to the word hindsight. Just not sure that most New Englanders really identify with the Puritans and Mass. bay colony.

I don't know if I would make a connection between Puritans and Red Sox fans, but I think that the roots for the Sunday Blue Laws and Bars closing at midnight on weekdays can be traced to the Puritans,

[notin]

I am right in assuming that you are not comparing Sandoval's situation to that of John Lester's right?

 

That quote does nothing of the sort. So you are correct he is not comparing the two situations.

 

He is referring to the capacity with which the Red Sox organization will stand by their players, and cited Lester as an example...

[moonslav59]

You know the hot stove is dead when we spend pages and pages on Pablo.

[cp176]

That quote does nothing of the sort. So you are correct he is not comparing the two situations.

 

He is referring to the capacity with which the Red Sox organization will stand by their players, and cited Lester as an example...

 

I'm pretty sure I know full well the point that he was trying to make but I don't know him. I am not his interpreter. There have been a number of comments made in this thread that are simply just opinions that people have. Generalizations and stereotypes for the most part. I stay away from those normally and think that it is important to question those that make them.

[Bellhorn04]

The typical New England fan is quick to attribute a lack of performance to a character flaw. A typical fan elsewhere might be more likely to mindfully seek solutions to the performance problem.

 

What does this mean exactly? Do you have any specific examples of these fan solutions?

[S5Dewey]

I'm pretty sure I know full well the point that he was trying to make but I don't know him. I am not his interpreter. There have been a number of comments made in this thread that are simply just opinions that people have. Generalizations and stereotypes for the most part. I stay away from those normally and think that it is important to question those that make them.

 

I have a saying that I use when there's something I know nothing about that someone is trying to explain to me. I say, "Talk to me like I'm ten years old". Since you need some interpretation of what I posted I'll talk to you like you're ten years old.

 

I am comparing the two only in that the Red Sox organization stood behind Lester during his illness giving him the full weight of their organization. Therefore it's probably safe to assume that they do the same for any player with issues that concern the player's health and/or their development. Lester took advantage of the help offered. The question now is whether Sandoval will.

 

I don't know John Lester, Pablo Sandoval, or any member of the Red Sox FO, but if we're going to confine our discussions to only what we each have personal knowledge of this is going to be a pretty dead forum.

[moonslav59]

I wish we could get past this Pablo thing, but I guess there's not much else to talk about.

[Bellhorn04]

I wish we could get past this Pablo thing, but I guess there's not much else to talk about.

 

Yeah, things are pretty dead right now with the CBA still not finalized.

[moonslav59]

Yeah, things are pretty dead right now with the CBA still not finalized.

 

Here's what Ken Rosenthal is saying...

 

The owners won’t insist that an international draft be a part of the next CBA, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (Twitter links). There is still disagreement regarding modification to the luxury tax system, he adds; it’s not clear whether the sides are simply haggling over where to set limits or, instead, considering larger changes.

[Spudboy]

Here's what Ken Rosenthal is saying...

 

The owners won’t insist that an international draft be a part of the next CBA, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (Twitter links). There is still disagreement regarding modification to the luxury tax system, he adds; it’s not clear whether the sides are simply haggling over where to set limits or, instead, considering larger changes.

 

It's going to suck if the season is delayed. I'm already jonesing for Red Sox Baseball.

 

Rich guys arguing with other rich guys over money is sickening.

[moonslav59]

It's going to suck if the season is delayed. I'm already jonesing for Red Sox Baseball.

 

Rich guys arguing with other rich guys over money is sickening.

 

It's the way of the world.

[Bellhorn04]

It sounds like a deal should get done though.

[a700hitter]

Here's what Ken Rosenthal is saying...

 

The owners won’t insist that an international draft be a part of the next CBA, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (Twitter links). There is still disagreement regarding modification to the luxury tax system, he adds; it’s not clear whether the sides are simply haggling over where to set limits or, instead, considering larger changes.

Ken Rosenthal provides zero useful information, and he get almost everything wrong. Sometimes he is so wrong that I think his sources are punking him.

[mvp 78]

What does this mean exactly? Do you have any specific examples of these fan solutions?

 

1. Put Pablo on a diet.

2. Make him wipe the Cheetos dust off his uniform.

3. Liposuction (worked well for Paul Wight).

4. If the above fails, just have him be a spokesperson for Dunkies and create a Pablo Sandoval line of donuts. That would get a lot of fans on his side.

[mvp 78]

Since we know how terrible us Puritans are, let's see how Giants feel about Pablo:

 

**** that clown. Says the Giants disrespected his fatass, then signs with Boston, sucked for a year, then eats himself out of yet another starting job. Way to go lardass. Yeah you've been disrespected, right.

 

Never accept responsibility for your ****ups when there's someone else you can blame. The new American dream.

 

Oh?

[mvp 78]

Well, let's just ask another Giants fan then:

 

Chublo also said he wanted to go to the RedSox for a new challenge. I'm not sure what he meant. If he wanted a challenge, perhaps the Twins or Rockies would have been a nice destination. I'm not sure the Giants equipment manager wants him to come back, because that would require the equipment manager to try to fuse three belts together to fit a 78 inch waist so there was no repeat of when fatty's belt buckle exploded last season when he was in the batter's box.

 

Hmmm...