9/28 @ NYY: User Name's? clinch party extraordinaire.

[VA Sox Fan]

Missing SBF?

 

You are AN IDIOT!

[a700hitter]

You are AN IDIOT!

i am special.

[Youk Of The Nation]

i am special.

 

Why not both?

 

[a700hitter]

Why not both?

 

That is why I am special.

[Maxbialystock]

No. Last night, i give JF a pass, because it was not a crucial game, but he needs to get someone up in the pen in the postseason if Kimbrel puts on 2 batters without getting an out.

 

JF gets a pass because he used that game to see if Kimbrel could recover from the bad start. He could not. As you say, next time Kimbrel gets the hook earlier even if he is the presumed closer.

 

And let's not forget that prima donna Kimbrel doesn't even want to go to the mound unless it's a save opportunity. Plus somebody on this thread actually said last night wasn't his fault because it wasn't an important enough save so Kimbrel didn't have enough adrenaline. Laughable.

[mvp 78]

JF gets a pass because he used that game to see if Kimbrel could recover from the bad start. He could not. As you say, next time Kimbrel gets the hook earlier even if he is the presumed closer.

 

And let's not forget that prima donna Kimbrel doesn't even want to go to the mound unless it's a save opportunity. Plus somebody on this thread actually said last night wasn't his fault because it wasn't an important enough save so Kimbrel didn't have enough adrenaline. Laughable.

 

Says who?

[mvp 78]

And I wasn't making an excuse, I was just making an explanation for why his performance dipped. He has struggled in low pressure situations all year. Last night was no different.

 

edit: And it's NOT acceptable no matter what the cause.

Edited September 29, 2016 by mvp 78

[a700hitter]

JF gets a pass because he used that game to see if Kimbrel could recover from the bad start. He could not. As you say, next time Kimbrel gets the hook earlier even if he is the presumed closer.

 

And let's not forget that prima donna Kimbrel doesn't even want to go to the mound unless it's a save opportunity. Plus somebody on this thread actually said last night wasn't his fault because it wasn't an important enough save so Kimbrel didn't have enough adrenaline. Laughable.

i read it twice and couldn't find a point. I don't read gibberish a third time

[S5Dewey]

And I wasn't making an excuse, I was just making an explanation for why his performance dipped. He has struggled in low pressure situations all year. Last night was no different.

 

edit: And it's NOT acceptable no matter what the cause.

 

If Kimbrel doesn't believe that last night was a high pressure situation then he doesn't understand Red Sox vs. Yankees.

[illinoisredsox]

I took a look at the MLB save leaders. A weak stat I know, but they are Kimbrel's peers. The Met's Familia leads the majors with 50 saves. He has allowed runs in 16 of his 76 appearances. The Dodgers Jansen? 10 of 71. Melancon 12 of 71. KRod 11 of 60. Robertson 11/62. All have had 2-3 games where they gave up 3+ runs. They happen. And they've all blown 3 or 4 games this year.

 

Much as we'd all like to have Britton or Chapman (who seemingly never allow any runs), the fact is most of these guys do give up some runs occasionally. Usually a couple times a month.

 

He didn't have it last night. It happens. No need to alert the Tobin Bridge police.

[S5Dewey]

I took a look at the MLB save leaders. A weak stat I know, but they are Kimbrel's peers. The Met's Familia leads the majors with 50 saves. He has allowed runs in 16 of his 76 appearances. The Dodgers Jansen? 10 of 71. Melancon 12 of 71. KRod 11 of 60. Robertson 11/62. All have had 2-3 games where they gave up 3+ runs. They happen. And they've all blown 3 or 4 games this year.

 

Much as we'd all like to have Britton or Chapman (who seemingly never allow any runs), the fact is most of these guys do give up some runs occasionally. Usually a couple times a month.

 

He didn't have it last night. It happens. No need to alert the Tobin Bridge police.

 

No, no, no. Why can't you understand?? My problem isn't that he gives up runs. My problem is that he can't find the friggin' plate! I don't mind when players make contact with the ball (well, actually I do but not as much as when they draw walks) but when they get issued walks the defense doesn't even have a chance to make a play on the ball.

His losing the game isn't the bigger problem with me. It's the WAY he lost the game - and the fact that his absolute loss of control pops up from time to time. I know he's going to be closing again, but I simply don't trust the guy to get outs.

 

#Koji for closer

[Bellhorn04]

I took a look at the MLB save leaders. A weak stat I know, but they are Kimbrel's peers. The Met's Familia leads the majors with 50 saves. He has allowed runs in 16 of his 76 appearances. The Dodgers Jansen? 10 of 71. Melancon 12 of 71. KRod 11 of 60. Robertson 11/62. All have had 2-3 games where they gave up 3+ runs. They happen. And they've all blown 3 or 4 games this year.

 

Much as we'd all like to have Britton or Chapman (who seemingly never allow any runs), the fact is most of these guys do give up some runs occasionally. Usually a couple times a month.

 

He didn't have it last night. It happens. No need to alert the Tobin Bridge police.

 

Yeah, the only thing that's concerning is that this is the second time, the other being on August 9, that he's totally lost the ability to throw strikes. He walked 4 in the other game.

[S5Dewey]

And the even bigger problem is that if he were getting hit around consideration would be given to not having him close any more, but since his problem is plate location the FO seems to think it's appropriate to send him out there thinking that it'll better this time. History says it may not be.

[S5Dewey]

Yeah, the only thing that's concerning is that this is the second time, the other being on August 9, that he's totally lost the ability to throw strikes. He walked 4 in the other game.

 

No. It's more than the second time. He had repeated outings where he went to 3-ball counts on several hitters but finally did get them out - so it doesn't show up in the box score. But that's a tightrope a closer simply cannot walk.

[Bellhorn04]

The possibility that he could lose the job to Koji has definitely reared its head, I would say.

[S5Dewey]

The possibility that he could lose the job to Koji has definitely reared its head, I would say.

 

I hope you're right, but at the same time I'm also concerned about the potential fallout from a move like that. I have no 'evidence' that he doesn't want to pitch in non-save situations even though it looks that way, but there's no doubt in my mind that he did NOT want to leave the game last night - and that bothers me.

 

#Koji for closer

[Kimmi]

Did you watch them coming into the clubhouse? They were subdued and very awkward until Farrell gave them the pep talk. It should have been a jubilant moment coming off the field.

 

This is not the way any of us would have scripted the Sox clinching the division, but in the end, it really doesn't matter. Farrell did a great job getting the team pumped up to enjoy the celebration the way that they should have. As he said, don't let one inning ruin or underscore what they have accomplished all season.

 

The team deserved their celebration. They earned it.

 

And Woohoo!!!

[illinoisredsox]

Kimbrel is going to remain as (primary) closer, he done the job 90% of the time and style points aren't going to count. My point is most of the closers aren't as perfect as some here seem to think they think they are.

[User Name]

Chapman is a guy who goes to a lot of 3-ball counts and will struggle for stretches. But hey, whining about Kimbrel and Price is the morning cup of coffee of talksox.

[Maxbialystock]

Kimbrel is going to remain as (primary) closer, he done the job 90% of the time and style points aren't going to count. My point is most of the closers aren't as perfect as some here seem to think they think they are.

 

ARe you serious? Kimbrel is all about style points. He preens himself when he is on the mound, and he doesn't want to be out there for anything other than save. I entirely agree he has great stuff when he is on and that he has had a pretty good season. But he has not had a good September, and it is a simple fact that his weakness is control. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think he ever tries to hit the corners but simply aims for the middle of the strike zone and hopes that his stuff will suffice, which it usually does.

 

I also believe he will continue to close if only because he will refuse to do anything else. He is that much of a prima donna. Or, if he doesn't refuse to do something besides close, he will do it poorly because he will lack motivation.

Edited September 30, 2016 by Maxbialystock

[Maxbialystock]

I took a look at the MLB save leaders. A weak stat I know, but they are Kimbrel's peers. The Met's Familia leads the majors with 50 saves. He has allowed runs in 16 of his 76 appearances. The Dodgers Jansen? 10 of 71. Melancon 12 of 71. KRod 11 of 60. Robertson 11/62. All have had 2-3 games where they gave up 3+ runs. They happen. And they've all blown 3 or 4 games this year.

 

Much as we'd all like to have Britton or Chapman (who seemingly never allow any runs), the fact is most of these guys do give up some runs occasionally. Usually a couple times a month.

 

He didn't have it last night. It happens. No need to alert the Tobin Bridge police.

 

You always make sensible posts, so I would love to agree with you on this. But I can't. First and foremost, when you think of closers, think or our own Uehara in 2013 or even, 3 years later and age 41, this month. That's what you need. Not a prima donna who can't pitch well when he isn't in for a save, who can blow up and simply not find the plate, and who gave up runs in 3 different games this month already.

 

He could still do fine in the playoffs because he has great stuff when he is on. But he sure seems to be slipping backward this month and Farrell would be wise to have a backup in mind whenever he sends Kimbrel to the mound.

[User Name]

You guys do know Kimbrel had in-season knee surgery?

[Bellhorn04]

ARe you serious? Kimbrel is all about style points. He preens himself when he is on the mound, and he doesn't want to be out there for anything other than save. I entirely agree he has great stuff when he is on and that he has had a pretty good season. But he has not had a good September, and it is a simple fact that his weakness is control. I could be wrong, but I honestly don't think he ever tries to hit the corners but simply aims for the middle of the strike zone and hopes that his stuff will suffice, which it usually does.

 

I also believe he will continue to close if only because he will refuse to do anything else. He is that much of a prima donna. Or, if he doesn't refuse to do something besides close, he will do it poorly because he will lack motivation.

 

Jeez Max, you take great offense when Farrell gets bashed, but you certainly don't hold back when it's time to bash one of the players.

[mvp 78]

Jeez Max, you take great offense when Farrell gets bashed, but you certainly don't hold back when it's time to bash one of the players.

 

I'm impressed with how well he knows Kimbrel's psychological state.

[Slasher9]

Jeez Max, you take great offense when Farrell gets bashed, but you certainly don't hold back when it's time to bash one of the players.

 

in all fairness...the players are the ones that actually......play.

[illinoisredsox]

You always make sensible posts, so I would love to agree with you on this. But I can't. First and foremost, when you think of closers, think or our own Uehara in 2013 or even, 3 years later and age 41, this month. That's what you need. Not a prima donna who can't pitch well when he isn't in for a save, who can blow up and simply not find the plate, and who gave up runs in 3 different games this month already.

 

He could still do fine in the playoffs because he has great stuff when he is on. But he sure seems to be slipping backward this month and Farrell would be wise to have a backup in mind whenever he sends Kimbrel to the mound.

 

This is where reality trumps perception.

 

In September, he has made 10 appearances. He has 6 saves in 7 attempts (Wednesday night was a save attempt in my mind, but since he was taken out, he technically didn't get a blown save). For what it's worth (admittedly not much for a reliever), his ERA at the start of September was 2.86. Going into Wednesday night, it had gone down to 2.65. If one assumes that the the unearned run he allowed in Oakland on the Holt error as earned, his ERA rises to all the way to 2.82 before Wednesday). In his 9 appearances up to Wednesday, he was perfect 4 times and allowed 1 runner 4 other times (1 H (albeit a home run), 2 BB, 1 HBP).

 

While Britton seemingly hasn't been scored on since Yaz was a rookie, this month in 11 appearances he has allowed (gasp) 10 runners in 11 innings (he's been perfect 4 times).

 

Do I wish Kimbrel would be more efficient? Absolutely. But looking at his record, he has always walked his share of batters (not as badly as this year I will grant you). And I think that knee has something to do with it. If a reliever is going to allow 6 runs in a month, I would rather it be the way Kimbrel has done it (1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 4) than something like 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1,, 0, 1, 1.

 

As for Koji closing, do we know if his shoulder would stand up to back to back or back to back to back appearances? I doubt it.

[illinoisredsox]

You always make sensible posts, so I would love to agree with you on this. But I can't. First and foremost, when you think of closers, think or our own Uehara in 2013 or even, 3 years later and age 41, this month. That's what you need. Not a prima donna who can't pitch well when he isn't in for a save, who can blow up and simply not find the plate, and who gave up runs in 3 different games this month already.

 

He could still do fine in the playoffs because he has great stuff when he is on. But he sure seems to be slipping backward this month and Farrell would be wise to have a backup in mind whenever he sends Kimbrel to the mound.

 

Well, we don't have that guy this year. Do I wish we did? Yeah. But aside from the O's and Britton (who I showed is not always 1-2-3), who really does?

Edited September 30, 2016 by illinoisredsox

[Bellhorn04]

in all fairness...the players are the ones that actually......play.

 

I don't see much difference in this context...Max impugning Kimbrel's character is about the same as 700hitter calling Farrell brain-dead.

[User Name]

I'm impressed with how well he knows Kimbrel's psychological state.

 

Our very own Sigmund Fraud.

[a700hitter]

I don't see much difference in this context...Max impugning Kimbrel's character is about the same as 700hitter calling Farrell brain-dead.

Physical errors and mistakes are inevitable. The game is very difficult, so I usually don't criticize players for physical errors or under performance. Mental errors are unforgivable to me, and I am highly critical of them. That being said, Farrell has not made any major gaffes recently and has been pushing the right button. He's still a dope, but he is in good company with about 26 of the other 29 managers.