Lineup Discussions

[Bellhorn04]

Like I always say, the team has a lot more patience in these matters than the fans do, and thank God for that.

[Slasher9]

.......well then clearly it would be Theo Epstein, John Farrell, Grady Little and Tito's fault.

 

Hahahahaha.

+500 points.

[moonslav59]

Just because somebody is slumping doesn't mean they should automatically be shifted around.....I never understood this notion. You move Bogie then that means somebody else has to be moved. Moving Betts to the 2 hole....from the 4 hole where he has been absolutely killing it.....is simply the stupidest idea I have heard in awhile. The lineup has been producing.....and some guy wants to move arguably the best player on the team out of his spot.........pure genius.

 

He's not even close to being the "best", so I will argue there.

 

He's already been moved this year (from 3 to 2).

 

All last winter, I argued that Bogey should bat second due to his comparative lack of power to bat third, and it's funny how someone who called himself the best poster argued that you don't move great players out of the slot they feel comfortable in and have done well in for years-- Pedey.

 

You crack me up!

 

[Bellhorn04]

He's not even close to being the "best", so I will argue there.

 

He's already been moved this year (from 3 to 2).

 

All last winter, I argued that Bogey should bat second due to his comparative lack of power to bat third, and it's funny how someone who called himself the best poster argued that you don't move great players out of the slot they feel comfortable in and have done well in for years-- Pedey.

 

You crack me up!

 

 

He was talking about the suggestion of moving Betts to the 2 hole.

[oldtimer]

We probably will go with Young in the lineup with Sabbathia tonight. With 4 of our first 5 solid hitting righties, Sabbathia will have no cake walk. Young and whoever catches will also be righties. That leaves Shaw (our options at 3rd are not good) and JBJ to try to deal with the big lefty in tougher matchups.

[Nick]

We probably will go with Young in the lineup with Sabbathia tonight. With 4 of our first 5 solid hitting righties, Sabbathia will have no cake walk. Young and whoever catches will also be righties. That leaves Shaw (our options at 3rd are not good) and JBJ to try to deal with the big lefty in tougher matchups.

 

I believe Papi is not playing. That puts Hanley as DH or maybe Young. Keep Beni in left field. Hill at 3B and Hanley 1B. Young DH.

 

Or Young in LF. Hanley DH. Hill at 3B and Shaw at 1B.

[moonslav59]

I believe Papi is not playing. That puts Hanley as DH or maybe Young. Keep Beni in left field. Hill at 3B and Hanley 1B. Young DH.

 

Or Young in LF. Hanley DH. Hill at 3B and Shaw at 1B.

 

I'd go with Beni in LF and Young at DH, but if Beni could use more down time, then Young in LF is fine.

 

I'd avoid using Shaw vs lefties, but I'd go with Hernandez over Hill..

[Wade Boggs]

I'd go with Beni in LF and Young at DH, but if Beni could use more down time, then Young in LF is fine.

 

I'd avoid using Shaw vs lefties, but I'd go with Hernandez over Hill..

 

Or you could go with Holt.

[Kingface]

He was talking about the suggestion of moving Betts to the 2 hole.

 

Thanks Nut...... Thought that was pretty obvious. I should have explained it better I guess.....

[Kingface]

He's not even close to being the "best", so I will argue there.

 

He's already been moved this year (from 3 to 2).

 

All last winter, I argued that Bogey should bat second due to his comparative lack of power to bat third, and it's funny how someone who called himself the best poster argued that you don't move great players out of the slot they feel comfortable in and have done well in for years-- Pedey.

 

You crack me up!

 

 

I was saying that Betts was the best player.....was producing in the 4 hole and moving him to help Bogey would be stupid. I never said Bogey was the best......re-read the post.....It was actually quite brilliant If I do say so myself.

[oldtimer]

I was saying that Betts was the best player.....was producing in the 4 hole and moving him to help Bogey would be stupid. I never said Bogey was the best......re-read the post.....It was actually quite brilliant If I do say so myself.

 

Having solid hitting through the 5 hole with each having good years to great years makes this team formidable. After them we aren't bad, although Leon is slumping a little after being red hot earlier. Shaw is probably a 250 hitter, Bradley will get his hits and has given us 25 HRs and now Benintendi who looks very composed batting 9th. With Young and Holt as backups we have tools everywhere. The way the lineup is stacked together now (heavy right handed hitting, followed by heavy left handed hitting, Showalter tried to take advantage of that by bringing in matchup relief a lot tonight. It didn't help him since the damage had alteady been done.

[moonslav59]

Having solid hitting through the 5 hole with each having good years to great years makes this team formidable. After them we aren't bad, although Leon is slumping a little after being red hot earlier. Shaw is probably a 250 hitter, Bradley will get his hits and has given us 25 HRs and now Benintendi who looks very composed batting 9th. With Young and Holt as backups we have tools everywhere. The way the lineup is stacked together now (heavy right handed hitting, followed by heavy left handed hitting, Showalter tried to take advantage of that by bringing in matchup relief a lot tonight. It didn't help him since the damage had alteady been done.

 

I'll put our 6-9 hitters up against any other teams' 6-9 hitters.

 

This one of the most balanced line-ups I've ever seen with the Sox...maybe the one with Hobson hitting 30 HRs from the 9 slot was more balanced. And, this isn't a "hitter's era".

[Maxbialystock]

Gotta like the whole lineup right now, including the guys who are slumping. I think tonight, Monday, at Baltimore was pretty close to our best with in LF. I would prefer Shaw over Holt at 3B, but won't argue that one. Against lefties I am also fine with Young in LF and Hill at 3B.

 

I like Betts at the 4, but also thought he was good leading off even though Pedroia has clearly been better there. HanRam has been #5 for most the season, and it's the right slot for him. I like Bogaerts in the 3 slots but can't disagree with moonslav's point about not enough power relative to Betts, Ortiz, Ramirez, etc.

[moonslav59]

Gotta like the whole lineup right now, including the guys who are slumping. I think tonight, Monday, at Baltimore was pretty close to our best with in LF. I would prefer Shaw over Holt at 3B, but won't argue that one. Against lefties I am also fine with Young in LF and Hill at 3B.

 

I like Betts at the 4, but also thought he was good leading off even though Pedroia has clearly been better there. HanRam has been #5 for most the season, and it's the right slot for him. I like Bogaerts in the 3 slots but can't disagree with moonslav's point about not enough power relative to Betts, Ortiz, Ramirez, etc.

 

I'd be happy to never see Hill play again for us.

From day one, I thought Bogey would be best at #2. He lacks the power of Betts, Papi, HanRam & JBJ.

I was fine with Betts at #1, because I do not like the idea of putting one of our worst runners (Pedey) up first.

I still think batting JBj 8th or 9th is a mistake.

I'd go with Shaw/Hernandez at 3B with Holt my choice before Hill.

 

 

I hope Beni wins the lead off slot next year. That would go a long way at lengthening our line-up with the loss of Papi looming large.

Edited September 20, 2016 by moonslav59

[Spudboy]

I'd be happy to never see Hill play again for us.

From day one, I thought Bogey would be best at #2. He lacks the power of Betts, Papi, HanRam & JBJ.

I was fine with Betts at #1, because I do not like the idea of putting one of our worst runners (Pedey) up first.

I still think batting JBj 8th or 9th is a mistake.

I'd go with Shaw/Hernandez at 3B with Holt my choice before Hill.

 

 

I hope Beni wins the lead off slot next year. That would go a long way at lengthening our line-up with the loss of Papi looming large.

 

 

 

Since when has Pedroia been one of the worst runners.

 

News to me.

[moonslav59]

Since when has Pedroia been one of the worst runners.

 

News to me.

 

Worst of any realistic alternative on the team: Betts, Bogey, JBJ...maybe Beni, Holt or basically anyone but Papi or Shaw.

 

Fangraphs base running index:

 

2016

-8.9 PApi

-3.3 Pedey

-1.4 Shaw

-0.5 HanRam

 

(Betts +9.4, Bogey +4.8, JBJ +4.7, Holt +2.6, Beni +0.9)

 

I'm not saying these guys are better batters in the one slot. I was just commenting on the downside of putting a worse runner in front of our best 2 runners in the line-up.

 

It's not just the numbers. I watch every game, every inning, every pitch. Pedey is not the runner he used to be years ago.

 

2015-2016:

-14.0 Papi

-5.3 Pablo

-4.4 Pedey

-3.1 HanRam

-0.5 Shaw

 

2014-2016

-21.0 Papi

-5.6 Pedey

 

Last 5 years:

-35.0 Papi

-6.3 Pedey

-5.3 Napoli

-5.3 Pablo

-3.1 HanRam

-3.0 Middy

-2.8 Vaz

 

2006-2011:

22.4 Ellsbury

19.2 Crisp

9.2 Youk

4.3 Pedey

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

I was fine with Betts at #1, because I do not like the idea of putting one of our worst runners (Pedey) up first.

 

But Pedroia has a .431 OBP at leadoff.

 

Are you happy with his overall performance at leadoff or not?

[Kingface]

But Pedroia has a .431 OBP at leadoff.

 

Are you happy with his overall performance at leadoff or not?

 

Agree. While Pedey may not be the runner he used to be.....he's pretty much the smartest guy on the team and is the least of our worries going into next year IF he is the leadoff guy. He has taken the leadoff roll and has done GREAT. Not sure what else he needs to do.

 

With that said........I personally do think that Benni, if he continues his discipline at the plate and continues to grow, would be a GREAT option to leadoff. I thought Moncada for a bit but he is simply not ready. He WILL start the year next season in AAA.

[moonslav59]

But Pedroia has a .431 OBP at leadoff.

 

Are you happy with his overall performance at leadoff or not?

 

I'm very happy, but that doesn't mean I can't point out one downside to the placement of Pedey at the one slot.

 

I said below that the speed is not related to his superior batting skills as a lead-off hitter. Certainly, I would not put Holt #1.

 

Ideally, next year, I'd like to see Beni get his OBP near .380+ and lead off. That would allow Pedey to fill a key slot at #3 or 5. (I like Bogey 2nd>)

[oldtimer]

I'm very happy, but that doesn't mean I can't point out one downside to the placement of Pedey at the one slot.

 

I said below that the speed is not related to his superior batting skills as a lead-off hitter. Certainly, I would not put Holt #1.

 

Ideally, next year, I'd like to see Beni get his OBP near .380+ and lead off. That would allow Pedey to fill a key slot at #3 or 5. (I like Bogey 2nd>)

 

What works well at leadoff is a guy who makes regular contact and can hit to all fields. That describes Pedey pretty well although he is not the fastest guy on the team, he is not that slow either. Beni is still unproven. I like what I have seen to date as he also extends the count, makes contact and runs well. With Bogaerts capable of 20 HR and a higher average hitter, he is okay batting 3rd and probably Betts 4th with Hanley 5th. An alternative to that would be to put Betts 3rd, Hanley 4th and Bogaerts 5th. My personal preference, assuming Beni can hit for average is as follows:

 

1 Pedey

2 Beni

3 Betts

4 Hanley

5 Bogaerts

 

Just about any way works but we do have a stacked righty, stacked lefty lineup anyway you cut it unless we can find another power lefty bat like Cano.

[mvp 78]

What works well at leadoff is a guy who makes regular contact and can hit to all fields. That describes Pedey pretty well although he is not the fastest guy on the team, he is not that slow either. Beni is still unproven. I like what I have seen to date as he also extends the count, makes contact and runs well. With Bogaerts capable of 20 HR and a higher average hitter, he is okay batting 3rd and probably Betts 4th with Hanley 5th. An alternative to that would be to put Betts 3rd, Hanley 4th and Bogaerts 5th. My personal preference, assuming Beni can hit for average is as follows:

 

1 Pedey

2 Beni

3 Betts

4 Hanley

5 Bogaerts

 

Just about any way works but we do have a stacked righty, stacked lefty lineup anyway you cut it unless we can find another power lefty bat like Cano.

 

I think this seems like the optimal lineup for next year as well. Really like Benintendi hitting 2nd too.

[Bellhorn04]

Ideally, next year, I'd like to see Beni get his OBP near .380+ and lead off.

 

You don't ask much LOL

[User Name]

Four straight righties is just asking for late-inning shutdowns when facing relievers like Darren O'Day from the Orioles, or starters who are especially tough on righties like Alex Cobb.

[moonslav59]

Four straight righties is just asking for late-inning shutdowns when facing relievers like Darren O'Day from the Orioles, or starters who are especially tough on righties like Alex Cobb.

 

Beni is left-handed.

 

Or, were you thinking Pedey, Bogey, Betts, HanRam?

 

We could try to stick JBJ in the top 4 somehow next year.

 

Counting on Beni or Moncafa to be successful in a top 4 slot may be asking too much, at least to start the season.

 

How's this?

 

Pedey

 

Bogey

 

JBJ (vs RHPs)

 

Betts

 

HanRam\

 

we could slide Betts to 3 vs lefties and Young to 4th.

[User Name]

Now that I think about it, losing Ortiz is really going to hurt the balance of this lineup.

[Kingface]

There is ZERO way the FO doesn't address losing Ortiz in the lineup......ZEROOOOOOOOO WAY. They WILL make a splash either via trade or FA's. Encarnacion (sp) will be on the Sox next year......

[User Name]

I mean because Ortiz is the only truly potent and consistent lefty bat in this lineup,

[Kingface]

Agree. But his production HAS to be addressed. Lefty or Righty.......preferably a Lefty......but it has to and WILL be addressed.

[Maxbialystock]

I agree Pedey is slower, but right now it's hard to see someone else leading off with a comparable OBP. Of course, a month or so ago I was saying he could not and should not lead off, so what do I know?

 

I think the lesson of this season is that more than one lineup can work. Ortiz has batted 3d and 4th, both with good effect. Ditto Betts at 1st and 4th. Bogaerts 2d and 3d. Pedey at 2d and 1st. Bradley has batted 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, and maybe 5th a couple times. All of that is contrary to the notion that players can't stand being moved around in the batting order. On the other hand, HanRam has stayed pretty much in the 5 slot thru good times and bad. Right now he is red hot, and 5th still seems to suit him well.

[Bellhorn04]

I mean because Ortiz is the only truly potent and consistent lefty bat in this lineup,

 

That is a sinister observation.