Lineup Discussions

[sk7326]

How about that Young has the 4th best OPS in MLB vs LHPs over the last 1.6 years?

 

He needs to start vs all lefties.

 

How about some bad splits by HanRam vs RHPs, and yet we keep hitting him 4th or 5th vs righties.

 

There's more than this.

 

When Young returns, he will probably go back to the usage that was intended ... start against lefties - and maybe a few other starts sprinkled in if the team goes through significant times without facing lefties.

[Wade Boggs]

When Young returns, he will probably go back to the usage that was intended ... start against lefties - and maybe a few other starts sprinkled in if the team goes through significant times without facing lefties.

 

That is a good bet. That is the more likely thing to happen.

[moonslav59]

Who has said that Young shouldn't hit against lefties?

 

 

Just about everyone who posts a line-up leaves him out.

 

Who has said that HanRam should never be moved in the order?

 

 

Some posters say you shouldn't move players around in a line-up. They yearn for consistency.

 

Almost every time I come up with a separate line-up vs lefties and righties, someone says "you can't juggle players" or something to that effect.

[mvp 78]

Some posters say you shouldn't move players around in a line-up. They yearn for consistency.

 

Almost every time I come up with a separate line-up vs lefties and righties, someone says "you can't juggle players" or something to that effect.

 

I haven't ever noticed someone who has opposed platoons and shifting lineups based on splits.

[SoxnCycles]

Some posters say you shouldn't move players around in a line-up. They yearn for consistency.

 

Almost every time I come up with a separate line-up vs lefties and righties, someone says "you can't juggle players" or something to that effect.

 

Some players don't care and some are more comfortable in certain spots than others.

I doubt there are a lot of players what would like being shuffled on a near-nightly basis. That's a lot of moving around.

Ball players, in general, are creatures of habit and routine.

[moonslav59]

Some players don't care and some are more comfortable in certain spots than others.

I doubt there are a lot of players what would like being shuffled on a near-nightly basis. That's a lot of moving around.

Ball players, in general, are creatures of habit and routine.

 

I'm sure HanRam would not enjoy batting 7th, 8th or even being benched vs RHPs, but he's pretty low vs righties.

 

Of course a factor to weigh is whether the guy you replace HanRam with is significantly better to make the shift or platoon, so that it will outweigh the downside of a pouting HanRam or overall comfort level of several players.

 

I'm not tsalking about benching HanRam vs RHPs, because some guy is 4 for 7 vs RHPs over the last week.

[moonslav59]

I haven't ever noticed someone who has opposed platoons and shifting lineups based on splits.

 

Not so much on this thread, because there hasn't been much discussion about righty vs lefty line-ups, but there has been push back on juggling players based on L-R splits.

 

I've mentioned on another thread that Papi has gone about 2 years where his numbers vs LHPs have really dropped. Conversely, his numbers vs RHPs have been awesome. I suggested he should probably bat 6th or 7th, going just by the numbers, but moving him to 5th, which is a very important spot, might be a good idea, especially if we can find a way to get Young into the top 4 slots vs lefties (when healthy). I can see the flack about moving papi involves deeper issues, but I did get push back on moving JBJ up vs LHPs due to his great OBP vs lefties and down vs RHPs due to his slg numbers there. HanRam should really bat 8th vs righties, and I doubt anyone would agree to bat him 6th or 7th even.

 

[Kimmi]

I think the problem nowadays is that people ignore the human element to the game and try to quantify every decision numerically. Sometimes a peak lineup may not be evident simply by number crunching.

 

It's the stat folks who have said that line up changes make so little difference that a team is likely better off putting batters in a slot where they feel comfortable, within reason.

 

The only line up 'rules' that I would adhere to is to get your high OBP guys higher up in the order in a slot where they feel comfortable, and only change the line up if a player is really scuffling or if the team as a whole is scuffling.

[bosoxmal]

The Thursday (8/19) lineup was about the best you will see all year---on any AL team. I haven't looked at the numbers, but the 4 straight lefties at the bottom of the order (against RH pitching) is about as good as it can get. To do maybe a little better against lefties, Young could replace the New Kid in left and switch line up spots with whichever lefty is playing third. Thankfully we have a switch hitting catcher and that sure makes things easier!

 

I sure wouldn't touch the first five spots. Very fw nights will go by without at least two of the hitting!

[moonslav59]

The Thursday (8/19) lineup was about the best you will see all year---on any AL team. I haven't looked at the numbers, but the 4 straight lefties at the bottom of the order (against RH pitching) is about as good as it can get. To do maybe a little better against lefties, Young could replace the New Kid in left and switch line up spots with whichever lefty is playing third. Thankfully we have a switch hitting catcher and that sure makes things easier!

 

I sure wouldn't touch the first five spots. Very fw nights will go by without at least two of the hitting!

 

It was a good line-up vs a lefty (although I'd have put Betts 3rd and Papi 4th) , but one of our best hitters (JBJ) wasn't even in the top 5. I feel he needs to be in the top 5 vs RHPs and maybe even vs some LHPs.

 

Some of our top 5 hitter have some big split differentials:

 

vs RHPs/vs LHPs

Player OBP.........SLG

Pedey .371/.371 .469/.360

Bogey .360/.385 .448/.443

Betts .369/.306 .572/545

Ortiz .421/.375 .686/.455

J B J .370/.336 .579/.375

HRam .328/.434 .399/.660

 

I bolded the concern areas.

 

I'm sorry, but I can never agree to having hanRam in the top 5 vs RHPs. I don't even think he belongs in the top 6. I think Papi should not bat 3rd vs LHPs, although his .375 OBP makes it possible. I'd bat him 4th or 5th, and when Young returns maybe even 6th looks better on paper, but I would not do that to him. JBJ has start differentials and needs to bat higher vs RHPs. Betts has a very low OBP vs LHPs, but his power is nearly the same, so batting him 5th vs LHPs might work. His disparity was not as great last year .336 to .356 OBP, so maybe it's just a passing phase. I wanted Bogey up 2nd to start the season. I love that move.

 

I still like this better:

 

vs RHPs:

1) Pedey

2) Bogey

3) Ortiz

4) Betts

5) JBJ

6) (Shaw/Leon)

7) HRam

 

I can see hitting HRam 6th and flipping Betts and Papi.

 

vs LHPs:

1) Pedey

2) Bogey

3) HRam (or Young)

4) Betts

5) Ortiz

6) Young

7) JBJ

 

On paper, this looks best vs lefties

1) Pedey

2) Bogey

3) Young

4) HRam

5) Ortiz

6) Betts

7) JBJ

[oldtimer]

 

I'm sorry, but I can never agree to having hanRam in the top 5 vs RHPs. I don't even think he belongs in the top 6.

 

 

I too was of the opinion that Hanley has been very inconsistent at the plate and has frequently been a rally killer. Just recently though he has added a lot to the lineup. It makes a big difference to have him pose an offensive threat. It would be a huge lift if he could catch fire going down the stretch.

[moonslav59]

 

I'm sorry, but I can never agree to having hanRam in the top 5 vs RHPs. I don't even think he belongs in the top 6.

 

 

I too was of the opinion that Hanley has been very inconsistent at the plate and has frequently been a rally killer. Just recently though he has added a lot to the lineup. It makes a big difference to have him pose an offensive threat. It would be a huge lift if he could catch fire going down the stretch.

 

He is not very good vs RHPs anymore. He's not horrible, but he's not good enough to bat in the 3-5 slots.

 

He used to be very good, but has always been much better vs LHPs.

 

Recent splits: vs RHP/LHP

2016: .727/1.094

2015: .720/.710

2014: .801/.869

 

I wouldn't bench HanRam vs RHPs, but clearly JBJ deserves to bat in front of him vs righties.

 

Speaking of getting hot, JBJ has 4 Hrs in his last 6 games. That's a huge lift too!

 

[oldtimer]

 

He is not very good vs RHPs anymore. He's not horrible, but he's not good enough to bat in the 3-5 slots.

 

He used to be very good, but has always been much better vs LHPs.

 

Recent splits: vs RHP/LHP

2016: .727/1.094

2015: .720/.710

2014: .801/.869

 

I wouldn't bench HanRam vs RHPs, but clearly JBJ deserves to bat in front of him vs righties.

 

Speaking of getting hot, JBJ has 4 Hrs in his last 6 games. That's a huge lift too!

 

Yes, and Ortiz is hitting with power again. He got 3 hits including a dinger tonight already so what a season he is having. They are through the 5th and in a rain delay so his numbers will stand up regardless.

[Behindenemylines]

As long as Pedey is hitting and getting on base I can live with the lineup the Sox have used over the last week. Betts continues to drive in runs.

[a700hitter]

As long as Pedey is hitting and getting on base I can live with the lineup the Sox have used over the last week. Betts continues to drive in runs.

I have always said that when Pedey hits, we score lots of runs. Where he hits in the lineup is irrelevant.

[Slasher9]

I have always said that when Pedey hits, we score lots of runs. Where he hits in the lineup is irrelevant.

 

well...one thing is for certain. when he hits, we win.

 

2016:

in Wins: .320 / .878

in Losses: .284 / .722

 

Career:

in Wins: .333 / .905

in Losses: .258 / .693

[Slasher9]

although i guess the same could be said about Ortiz:

 

2016:

In W: .387 / 1.224

In L: .234 / .816

 

career:

In W: .332 / 1.090

In L: .230 / .735

[Slasher9]

or Betts:

 

2016

W: .358 / 1.044

L: .246 / .714

 

or JBj

W: .336 / 1.069

L: .199 / .601

[Slasher9]

nevermind. pedroia is not an outlier......

[mvp 78]

My guess is that most players would hit better in wins as runs are a function of batters getting on base.

 

One of my pet peeves is NESN popping up stats like: Over JBJ's 8 game hitting streak, he's batting .360. No s***. A guy who has gotten a hit in each game is batter above .333?!?!? OMG OMG OMG

[Dalas21000]

Pedroia is not a leadoff hitter...Leadoff hitters usually steal bases...Quit trying to reinvent the wheel....Betts is a proven leadoff hitter with his hitting and stolen bases

[Dojji]

Pedey was the leadoff hitter in 2007... when we won the world series... nuff said.

 

With as much power as we have behind the leadoff guy I do not want them making outs on the basepaths.

[sk7326]

I have always said that when Pedey hits, we score lots of runs. Where he hits in the lineup is irrelevant.

 

Good player playing well leads to win ... film at 11

[bosoxmal]

Pedroia is one of the steadiest players on the team. Both Bradley and Benintendi have been weak, of late, and evern Mookie's power numbers are droppiong off a little. I hate to think where we would be had Leon not shown up out of nowhere! Re/Mookie. his 7 day triple stat looks like this, .310/355/.517

 

This is quite different than hie 15 day sheet which shows, .344/.394/.639. In another 3 days, however, he'll be looking at that wall.Since dropping to the 4 spot, Ortiz has been getting the pitches to hit, and Mookie has not. When Betts was No. 3 and Ortiz No. 4, it was the other way around. Either way, they are still the best all around three-four team in the AL. Still, here's a cheeer for Leon. Nickname? I'd suggest Big Lee.

Edited August 23, 2016 by bosoxmal

[moonslav59]

Pedroia is one of the steadiest players on the team. Both Bradley and Benintendi have been weak, of late, and evern Mookie's power numbers are droppiong off a little. I hate to think where we would be had Leon not shown up out of nowhere! Re/Mookie. his 7 day triple stat looks like this, .310/355/.517

 

This is quite different than hie 15 day sheet which shows, .344/.394/.639. In another 3 days, however, he'll be looking at that wall.Since dropping to the 4 spot, Ortiz has been getting the pitches to hit, and Mookie has not. When Betts was No. 3 and Ortiz No. 4, it was the other way around. Either way, they are still the best all around three-four team in the AL. Still, here's a cheeer for Leon. Nickname? I'd suggest Big Lee.

 

JBJ's BA has gone down, but I wouldn't say he's been "weak". I think he has 4 HRs in his last 7 starts.

[sk7326]

Pedroia is one of the steadiest players on the team. Both Bradley and Benintendi have been weak, of late, and evern Mookie's power numbers are droppiong off a little. I hate to think where we would be had Leon not shown up out of nowhere! Re/Mookie. his 7 day triple stat looks like this, .310/355/.517

 

This is quite different than hie 15 day sheet which shows, .344/.394/.639. In another 3 days, however, he'll be looking at that wall.Since dropping to the 4 spot, Ortiz has been getting the pitches to hit, and Mookie has not. When Betts was No. 3 and Ortiz No. 4, it was the other way around. Either way, they are still the best all around three-four team in the AL. Still, here's a cheeer for Leon. Nickname? I'd suggest Big Lee.

 

i agree - Betts has sagged from his 3 homeruns in one game pace. Benintendi has also stopped hitting .400 ... the nerve. It's baseball - the production has not sagged meaningfully. Bradley is a more significant drop - but even then he is not giving away at bats.

[a700hitter]

Good player playing well leads to win ... film at 11

IMO, Pedroia is a catalyst for the Red Sox more so than our other players. And when he gets on one of his white hot streaks, the team goes on a streak.

[oldtimer]

i agree - Betts has sagged from his 3 homeruns in one game pace. Benintendi has also stopped hitting .400 ... the nerve. It's baseball - the production has not sagged meaningfully. Bradley is a more significant drop - but even then he is not giving away at bats.

 

Beni's is 2 for 2 tonight off of Archer. I don't think he has gone cold. All players have good days and bad. You live with that when their overall production is a positive for the team. Bradley's hitting has been productive and his fielding is top of the line.

[Nick]

Player of the Night: Yoan Moncada was on base five times and hit his 10th home run with the Sea Dogs. While the Red Sox could wait until September 1 to call up Moncada to avoid having to make any difficult roster decisions, he likely represents an upgrade over Travis Shaw, who entered the day batting .207 with a .643 OPS in 232 at-bats since May 22. Moncada could platoon with Aaron Hill to limit his at-bats against left-handers, and the reports on his defense have been positive since he moved to the hot corner on August 12.

[moonslav59]

...the reports on his defense have been positive since he moved to the hot corner on August 12.

 

I'm not doubting you, but what reports are you talking about?