How Bad Are the Umps?

[Youk Of The Nation]

Actually, I thought of a way I could accept it. Install strike-zone computers in every park, and collect the data every season, on every pitch. At the end of the season, separate and examine the data by umpire. When an umpire's "bad calls" exceed, say, 15-20% of the pitches he judged, issue a warning and give him until the ASB the following season to correct it. If, by then, he has either not decreased his bad calls, or has actually increased them, suspend him for the other half of that season.

 

The umpires stay, giving the game the feel of watching human beings play a game, and still decrease the number of bad pitch calls.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

I have always felt that sometimes the bad call happens in your favor, other times it goes against you. At the end of the year it seems to balance itself out.

 

Whining about a bad call here or there has never been my style. IMO it just makes you look like a, well, whiner.

[FredLynn]

Actually, I thought of a way I could accept it. Install strike-zone computers in every park, and collect the data every season, on every pitch. At the end of the season, separate and examine the data by umpire. When an umpire's "bad calls" exceed, say, 15-20% of the pitches he judged, issue a warning and give him until the ASB the following season to correct it. If, by then, he has either not decreased his bad calls, or has actually increased them, suspend him for the other half of that season.

 

The umpires stay, giving the game the feel of watching human beings play a game, and still decrease the number of bad pitch calls.

 

After watching some of the calls made the game before last I think its time for automation for balls and strikes. These bad calls are influencing the outcomes of games. The human element can be preserved by limiting such automation to balls and strikes and a the few challenges available to the managers. The most important thing is to get the calls right. Just my opinion.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I have always felt that sometimes the bad call happens in your favor, other times it goes against you. At the end of the year it seems to balance itself out.

.

 

This is another good point, I think. Everyone has calls go for and against their team. How do we really know what the results are? For all we know, one year the Sox may have gained 4 wins due to incorrect calls and lost only 2. Remember, a computer would call strikes or balls based on the EXACT strike zone. The umpires make calls all the time that we, as fans, and the players, as professionals, have no issues with. But a computer might. How many times would players strike out the pitch before they hit a HR on a pitch that an umpire called a ball, if a computer was calling it?

[Thunder]

Another thing is that as long as you win the game, you have no right whatsoever to bring up the umpiring, or lack thereof.

[User Name]

I mean, they have an umpire review system, and they measure accuracy using both live observers and comparing to a pitch/fx like tool. They also use a percentage-based system to measure umpires, as you theorize, but what I don't know is what type of incentive/punishments they receive. Must do more research.

[User Name]

Another thing is that as long as you win the game, you have no right whatsoever to bring up the umpiring, or lack thereof.

 

People have the right to complain about whatever they want, whenever they want, be it real life or the internet. That, of course, gives others the right to call them out on it.

 

On the specific point of umpiring, winning the game should not be a license to allow errors in game management by the umpiring to pass unnoticed, because the other shoe always drops. Consistent game-calling should be the objective, not umpiring that is advantageous to one's team.

[S5Dewey]

Addressed to no one in particular, I have to say that all of this talk about "you guys from BDC" doesn't feel all that warm and fuzzy... or welcoming. It feels much like an "Us against you" mentality. There's a learning curve involved in moving from one forum to another and IMO most of as are assimilating into it quite well. Speaking for myself (who else?), there have been situations where there have been posts I wanted to make but since I wasn't sure where it would fit and I didn't want to start a new thread, I didn't post it. I'm just conceited enough to think that my thoughts are worth saying or I wouldn't be here - and don't we all feel that way? BUT... life has gone on just fine without my post(s) so it gets chalked up to 'no harm no foul'.

 

It's also worth mentioning that there were different personalities on the BDC board just as there are here. We all knew one another and knew what to expect from them, so please be patient with us. For example, I believe SinceYaz is one of the nicest human beings you'll ever read a post from, along with being one of the most positive people you'll ever read from, and yet I've seen him 'ripped' for a variety of things. And that bothers me.

 

Be patient with us. Yes, we're trying to make this board into the old BDC board to some degree but it's because it's what we know. We also need a nudge occasionally to be reminded that it's NOT the old BDC board. It's fine. If we all work together with patience and understanding it'll all work out. Those who want to remain here with your rules will remain and those who don't will move on.

 

Re The Babe situation now: Those of us who were pointing out our experience with The Babe weren't doing it because we had a grudge against him. It was because we were trying to give you a heads-up as to what you can expect. If you knew someone who had defrauded an elderly lady of her money and this person was suddenly keeping company with your widowed mother, wouldn't you want to know? While that may be an extreme example, at the same time, as they say, "Past history is the best predictor of future behavior."

 

We're not your enemy. We're your friends.

[Bellhorn04]

What they might do is add ball and strike calls to the challenge/replay review system. Might take a while before they do though.

[User Name]

YOTN, the mod, who is the one with the ban stick, has clearly stated on several occasions (because this has happened before) that integration comes with its own set of problems, and that BDC members are welcome here and encouraged to keep signing up to talksox.com.

 

From my part, and I speak for pretty much everyone here, you are welcome, and we have done our best to help you acclimate you to the website. However, there have been issues on both sides that have made integration difficult, but that's just the nature of the beast. The result has been a net positive if you ask me.

[User Name]

What they might do is add ball and strike calls to the challenge/replay review system. Might take a while before they do though.

 

That'd really slow the game down.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Addressed to no one in particular, I have to say that all of this talk about "you guys from BDC" doesn't feel all that warm and fuzzy... or welcoming. It feels much like an "Us against you" mentality. There's a learning curve involved in moving from one forum to another and IMO most of as are assimilating into it quite well. Speaking for myself (who else?), there have been situations where there have been posts I wanted to make but since I wasn't sure where it would fit and I didn't want to start a new thread, I didn't post it. I'm just conceited enough to think that my thoughts are worth saying or I wouldn't be here - and don't we all feel that way? BUT... life has gone on just fine without my post(s) so it gets chalked up to 'no harm no foul'.

 

It's also worth mentioning that there were different personalities on the BDC board just as there are here. We all knew one another and knew what to expect from them, so please be patient with us. For example, I believe SinceYaz is one of the nicest human beings you'll ever read a post from, along with being one of the most positive people you'll ever read from, and yet I've seen him 'ripped' for a variety of things. And that bothers me.

 

Be patient with us. Yes, we're trying to make this board into the old BDC board to some degree but it's because it's what we know. We also need a nudge occasionally to be reminded that it's NOT the old BDC board. It's fine. If we all work together with patience and understanding it'll all work out. Those who want to remain here with your rules will remain and those who don't will move on.

 

Re The Babe situation now: Those of us who were pointing out our experience with The Babe weren't doing it because we had a grudge against him. It was because we were trying to give you a heads-up as to what you can expect. If you knew someone who had defrauded an elderly lady of her money and this person was suddenly keeping company with your widowed mother, wouldn't you want to know? While that may be an extreme example, at the same time, as they say, "Past history is the best predictor of future behavior."

 

We're not your enemy. We're your friends.

 

No, it's because some of you continue to hold the BDC grudge against me.

 

At least be honest.

[Bellhorn04]

That'd really slow the game down.

 

Agreed. I just think it's a more realistic possibility than cyber-umps.

[Thunder]

People have the right to complain about whatever they want, whenever they want, be it real life or the internet. That, of course, gives others the right to call them out on it.

 

On the specific point of umpiring, winning the game should not be a license to allow errors in game management by the umpiring to pass unnoticed, because the other shoe always drops. Consistent game-calling should be the objective, not umpiring that is advantageous to one's team.

 

I meant that an out call at second base in the first inning that was in question had no impact on a 9-2 win. In that case, just let it go. And I was referring to players, not fans, or Talksox users. I've accepted that the world is full of complainers.

[User Name]

I meant that an out call at second base in the first inning that was in question had no impact on a 9-2 win. In that case, just let it go. And I was referring to players, not fans, or Talksox users. I've accepted that the world is full of complainers.

 

Those calls can now be handled by replay, so they're a non-issue. The only true remaining issue with the umpiring is balls-strikes.

[Thunder]

Those calls can now be handled by replay, so they're a non-issue. The only true remaining issue with the umpiring is balls-strikes.

 

And in that department, I still think umpires are doing the best job they possibly can. They have too high expectations placed on them.

[jete02fan]

There were a couple of us who tried to tell folks here what was going to happen but they chose to pretty much ignore our experiences. I'm now going to just sit back, grin, and watch what develops.

you're such a troublemaker!

[Dojji]

Another thing is that as long as you win the game, you have no right whatsoever to bring up the umpiring, or lack thereof.

 

Which is fine because the fans of the team that did lose will file the appropriate complaints so we're not missing out on the other half of the whining..

[Thunder]

Which is fine because the fans of the team that did lose will file the appropriate complaints so we're not missing out on the other half of the whining..

 

In that situation, complaining is justifiable. I have no problem with that.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

Those calls can now be handled by replay, so they're a non-issue. The only true remaining issue with the umpiring is balls-strikes.

 

Not really a non issue because I have seen fans complain that the replay guys have a NY bias because they happen in the NY offices.

[Dojji]

I've seen the review guys get it right a lot more often than they got it wrong.

 

But would it kill them to set up shop in Louisville or some place that has no direct affiliation with any of the 30 teams?

 

That said, as long as an ump's humble enough to ask for help, they tend to get it right the vast majority of the time too.

 

Anyone else bring Game 6 2004 ALCS to mind? We thought there'd be another major miscarriage of justice, like the Offerman phantom tag or the Daimerball "home run" but the umps actually got together and got the call right and then they got another call right on I want to say Bellhorn's home run that was initially ruled a "wall ball double" off some dude's hoodie. The NYY fans appreciated these correct calls on review so much that the teams had to come off the field and New York's Finest had to patrol the foul lines for the rest of the game. If replay did nothing else for us at least it did formalize the process of how to resolve dubious or disputable calls.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Dojji

[Maxbialystock]

I've been keeping an eye on things, just not as closely as when I'm at home.

 

I have matured greatly in the ten years since I started moderating here. I tend not to make rash decisions anymore. I do not want to become the kind of internet moderator who bans everyone who annoys me. (If I did that, this site would just be me and a lot of inactive members). Trust me when I tell you I am making a note of everything that happens, and I will take action when or if I think it is necessary, based on my read of the situation, not the opinions of a bunch of people with preexisting grudges against someone. We had enough problems with the Dodger Blues crowd, I refuse to allow this board to become a stage for the rekindling of drama from another message board yet again.

 

Babe can irritate, but not, in my opinion, to excess.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

 

But would it kill them to set up shop in Louisville or some place that has no direct affiliation with any of the 30 teams?

 

 

I understand what you're saying but the silly part of it all is that just because the offices are located in NY doesn't mean the replay officials are fans of the Yanks or Mets.

 

For all we know they could have grown up in KC rooting for the Royals.

 

Or god forbid in Beantowne rooting for the Sawx. ☺

[Dojji]

I know. It's an "appearance of evil" thing.

[jete02fan]

though not too often the roughest games are the ones where BOTH teams have spent the day barking at the umps

[S5Dewey]

you're such a troublemaker!

 

Damn! And you had to go and tell everybody!

[S5Dewey]

No, it's because some of you continue to hold the BDC grudge against me.

 

At least be honest.

 

Let's just leave it to everyone else to decide who's honest and who isn't and who's a troll and who isn't. I'll take my chances that way.

[Hugh2]

I understand what you're saying but the silly part of it all is that just because the offices are located in NY doesn't mean the replay officials are fans of the Yanks or Mets.

 

For all we know they could have grown up in KC rooting for the Royals.

 

Or god forbid in Beantowne rooting for the Sawx. ☺

 

I agree and think this is a good point. I made a similar point on the Patriots thread in defense of the MIT physics department who validated the Patriots story in deflategate.

 

This is a job to these people, while I'm sure it exists, biased calls probably happen much much less often in sports than us fans like to admit.

[jete02fan]

Damn! And you had to go and tell everybody!

LOL...howdy S5..Happy Memorial Day!!

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

I agree and think this is a good point. I made a similar point on the Patriots thread in defense of the MIT physics department who validated the Patriots story in deflategate.

 

This is a job to these people, while I'm sure it exists, biased calls probably happen much much less often in sports than us fans like to admit.

 

Exactly, many Patsies fans were claiming bias in the second hearing because the 2nd circuit hearing took place in NY.

 

It's just silly IMO, and like you said, it's a job to these people.