Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[a700hitter]

Speaking of pitching, trading off our best prospects for any stud pitcher is risky. Remember, Kershaw and now Greinke on 15 day DL. Thats why developing home grown talent like Lester is critical. Pretty sad we can't come up with end of the rotation pitching. Remember when Gorman traded Bagwell for Anderson to help the playoff run. That team had no shot at a W.Series Then he states years later that he'd do it again. You have to trust your gut, if your one big move away, do it, but just be sure you really think it will give you that shot.

we don't grow any pitchers.

[User Name]

Spud is a great cook, just so y'all know.

[moonslav59]

we don't grow any pitchers.

 

Agreed. Hence the need to eventually trade everyday prospects for pitching. Free agency is a mirage.

 

I'd overpay, but only for a SP'er under 27 or 28 with 3 1/2+ years of inexpensive team control. I know that's asking for a lot, and acquiring any pitcher has some risk, but I don't see any other way to build up our staff.

[moonslav59]

Spud is a great cook, just so y'all know.

 

Just say where and when!

[Kimmi]

But again, said pitcher missed the second half for the second time in 3 years. He's very unreliable, and maybe he was not the best choice considering the overall state of our rotation.

 

I get all that. But you're not going to get the quality of pitching that he can provide for anywhere near that price. His reward far outweighed his risk. The problem is that none of our alternatives have worked out.

[Kimmi]

No it does not feel good. The Sox allocated $13. mil this year to a guy that had a poor chance of performing up to his contract and that is what happened. It was the wrong thing to do when they could have looked elsewhere to find scrub level pitching at a much more reasonable cost to supplant him in the rotation. Or they could have used the $13. mil toward chasing a better pitcher to fortify the week rotation.

 

The Sox decided that they were okay with the risk of Buch sucking. That is bad judgement and bad business. Now, partly because Buch has sucked, the Sox will need to spend extravagantly of your precious prospects or worse, front line MLB talent , to make the rotation sound.

 

The no brainer has been no bargain.

 

No, he did not have a poor chance of living up to his contract. The chance of him living up to that contract was actually pretty good.

 

It didn't work out, but the risk of $13 mil was well worth the potential reward.

[Kimmi]

Picking up the option was as close to a no-brainer as one gets. It's easy to say in July of 2016 that it wasn't a good idea but hindsight is always 20-20.

 

At the time it looked like we'd be getting 1/2 of a season of a pitcher with ace quality for $13M. If one figures that a true ace is worth $26M/year $13M is about the going price for a half year. The problem is that the Sox didn't plan for what to do in that other 1/2 year. And the bigger problem is that Buch isn't earning that $13M this year but that was unforeseeable.

 

I fully endorse this post.

[Kimmi]

Forget WAR for a minute. Let's put it this way, in today's market, ff we could acquire a SP'er right now that would give us 18 starts (starting today) and give us a 3.26 ERA (130 ERA+) in 113 IP, how much would that be worth in dollars to you? No prospects needed. Just sign this guy knowing you get just 18 starts.

 

I fully endorse this post as well.

[a700hitter]

I get all that. But you're not going to get the quality of pitching that he can provide for anywhere near that price. His reward far outweighed his risk. The problem is that none of our alternatives have worked out.

And he predictably leaves a big costly hole at the top of your rotation for the stretch run. We bemoan how costly it is to find a top of the rotation pitcher midseason, yet Buch leaves us with that hole year in and year out.

[harmony]

Agreed. Hence the need to eventually trade everyday prospects for pitching. Free agency is a mirage.

 

I'd overpay, but only for a SP'er under 27 or 28 with 3 1/2+ years of inexpensive team control. I know that's asking for a lot, and acquiring any pitcher has some risk, but I don't see any other way to build up our staff.

That's asking for the pitching equivalent of Mookie Betts or Xander Bogaerts.

[a700hitter]

I wonder what it would take to pry Iwakuma away from the Mariners.

[Bellhorn04]

I get all that. But you're not going to get the quality of pitching that he can provide for anywhere near that price. His reward far outweighed his risk. The problem is that none of our alternatives have worked out.

 

Not true. What about Fister? He has better career numbers than Clay and he signed for $7 million.

[harmony]

I wonder what it would take to pry Iwakuma away from the Mariners.

Seattle is only one game back in the AL Wild Card race despite a starting rotation that has been decimated by injuries to Felix Hernandez, Wade Miley and Taijuan Walker (and the demotion of Nate Karns).

 

Under those circumstances, I doubt the Mariners will trade righthander Hisashi Iwakuma.

 

By the way, the Red Sox should thank the Mariners for sweeping a four-game series at home this weekend against the AL East-leading Baltimore Orioles, who entered the series with a seven-game winning streak.

[Bellhorn04]

Seattle is only one game back in the AL Wild Card race despite a starting rotation that has been decimated by injuries to Felix Hernandez, Wade Miley and Taijuan Walker (and the demotion of Nate Karns).

 

Under those circumstances, I doubt the Mariners will trade righthander Hisashi Iwakuma.

 

By the way, the Red Sox should thank the Mariners for sweeping a four-game series at home this weekend against the AL East-leading Baltimore Orioles, who entered the series with a seven-game winning streak.

 

Thank you Mariners indeed.

[mvp 78]

?????? I don't get it. I imagine that it is some funny s*** but I just don't get it.

 

All I know about Attleboro is the Emerald Square Mall and the s***** Friendly's on route 1.

[mvp 78]

It would be pretty f***ing cool to have a700, cp176, and MVP78 over for a game and discussion.

 

I'm around. Just let me know.

[Spudboy]

All I know about Attleboro is the Emerald Square Mall and the s***** Friendly's on route 1.

 

I'm in "North".

 

I have never been in that Friendly's. Thanks for the warning. I think it is in Attleboro.

[moonslav59]

Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post

Agreed. Hence the need to eventually trade everyday prospects for pitching. Free agency is a mirage.

 

I'd overpay, but only for a SP'er under 27 or 28 with 3 1/2+ years of inexpensive team control. I know that's asking for a lot, and acquiring any pitcher has some risk, but I don't see any other way to build up our staff.

 

That's asking for the pitching equivalent of Mookie Betts or Xander Bogaerts.

 

I'm not saying the guy has to be an ace right now. We can look for a solid number two.We can look for a pitcher with risk like maybe Matt Moore, and maybe not pay as much due to the risk factors. (Note: if we got Moore, I'd still like to get another 2/3 slot starting pitcher.

[a700hitter]

Four or five teams were scouting Hill yesterday. He is not going to be cheap. He would have been very cheap if the Sox had moved on from Buch by trading him.

[moonslav59]

Four or five teams were scouting Hill yesterday. He is not going to be cheap. He would have been very cheap if the Sox had moved on from Buch by trading him.

 

Oh well. We c ould have had Hill and Fister for Buch's money, but hindsight is 20-20.

[SoxHop]

I'm around. Just let me know.

 

You guys let me know if you need a hookup for the party.......... I can FedEx what ever you need......

[a700hitter]

Four or five teams were scouting Hill yesterday. He is not going to be cheap. He would have been very cheap if the Sox had moved on from Buch by trading him.

The discussion over whether the Red Sox should have moved on from Buch raged at the time. A lot of us thought it was a no-brainer to go in a different direction.

[Bellhorn04]

One more point about Buchholz. When the details of his injury came out last year, I heard more than one more person describe it as 'the type of injury that is often a precursor to TJ surgery'. At this point I'm wondering if he still has some health issues, because obviously he's not throwing the ball as well as he was before he got injured last year. And as we've seen many times there are some issues that tend to get past our crack medical staff.

[mvp 78]

I'm in "North".

 

I have never been in that Friendly's. Thanks for the warning. I think it is in Attleboro.

 

I have much nicer things to say about North Attleboro, especially North Works which is a great restaurant.

[cp176]

I'm in "North".

 

I have never been in that Friendly's. Thanks for the warning. I think it is in Attleboro.

 

I knew that you were in "North". I was checking to see if you remembered! lol

[Spudboy]

I have much nicer things to say about North Attleboro, especially North Works which is a great restaurant.

 

I remember that you recommended that place. I went there once. It was uncharacteristically good for North Attleboro.

[Emp9]

Not true. What about Fister? He has better career numbers than Clay and he signed for $7 million.

 

I wanted to go after Fister in the off season, but w/ an incentive-laden contract and way less $ than what he signed for. He had a horrible season. He was just as much a risk as Buch. It really started to look like Fister's career was over the way he pitched last season. I liked Hill too, but his 4 excellent starts w/ the Sox last season didn't make up for a career plagued by injuries & underperformance. Not enough track record to go into a bidding war over anyway. I see why they stuck w/ Buchholz over those guys. Sometimes it's the devil you know too and again, Buch's contract comparatively speaking was worth the risk.

[mvp 78]

I remember that you recommended that place. I went there once. It was uncharacteristically good for North Attleboro.

 

Forgot you lived near Boch South.

[Kimmi]

Not true. What about Fister? He has better career numbers than Clay and he signed for $7 million.

 

You do have to consider how bad Fister was last year. He was removed from the rotation and put in the pen because he was performing so poorly. Also, he was out for a month due to injury. While Clay missed time due to injury as well, he put up much better numbers in his walk year than Fister did.

 

Was Fister worth the risk? At 1yr/$7mil, absolutely. (FTR, he can earn an additional $5 mil based on the number of innings pitched.) Would I have preferred signing Fister over Buchholz? Based on their previous year's numbers, no.

[Kimmi]

Seattle is only one game back in the AL Wild Card race despite a starting rotation that has been decimated by injuries to Felix Hernandez, Wade Miley and Taijuan Walker (and the demotion of Nate Karns).

 

Under those circumstances, I doubt the Mariners will trade righthander Hisashi Iwakuma.

 

By the way, the Red Sox should thank the Mariners for sweeping a four-game series at home this weekend against the AL East-leading Baltimore Orioles, who entered the series with a seven-game winning streak.

 

My second favorite team this weekend was the Mariners.