Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[SoxnCycles]

HanRam & Shaw are pretty even on the season. HanRam is having the better month, better last 7 games. I might say tgat he should be though.

 

I agree.

We should expect more from Ramirez.

[Nick]

Any trade we make for pitching has to be more than a 2 month rental.....it has to be done with 3-5 year timeline when our young position players are coming into their prime years. The problem is if the evaluation is wrong, Sox will be stuck with another bad contract. I also don't want any trade based solely on doing something on Ortiz' last go around. We will regret it because if we don't win the big one, and not to just get into the playoffs, no one will remember other than prospects given up.

 

I get it that it's never an exact science but I'm pretty sure Henry is paying top dollars for his baseball people. They have to get it right sometime don't they?

 

Betts, Xander, Bradley Jr are all keepers. My read is the JF really likes Shaw. He gives us an option on both corners. Count him in. Maybe we're thinking too hard on catching situation. Swihart and Vazquez tandem can work. When offense gets better for Vazquez then Swihart can fill in at LF and 1B and or DH. That will save Swihart's body and he can still contribute offensively from another position.

 

So basically we're looking for a LF. Benintendi may be the answer. We still have Moncada and Devers. And if we go out and get a power bad for DH this off-season?

 

I'm trying to convince myself that we're in great shape as far as position players are concerned.

 

Can we get Hill for several second rung prospects? Or will we need to throw in say Espinoza or Devers? This will push back perhaps having to deal with starting pitching for few months and may not address long term solution that I started the discussion with. But it seems cheaper way to go.....Bidding may get too expensive for his services.

 

Ok, I'm talking in circles....I just don't want to part with position players and somehow pitching will turn itself around.....wishful thinking.

[Slasher9]

i really really really like hanram on this team. he is the type of guy you need on a playoff type team.

Shaw has really really really surprised me. seems he has made the adjustment on the high stuff.

[mvp 78]

We won't get a power bat this offseason. DH will be split between Shaw, HanRam and Pablo. Shaw will get reps at 1b and 3b throughout the season.

 

I'd like to see them grab a #4 starter (Lewis, Iwakuma, Fister) AND pick up a solid veteran like Bud Norris or Bartolo Colon as their 5th starter. We all know that won't happen though.

[User Name]

I bet the Sox sign Edwin Encarnacion.

[mvp 78]

I bet the Sox sign Edwin Encarnacion.

 

Sig bet?

[User Name]

Sig bet?

 

Sure thing.

[moonslav59]

Any trade we make for pitching has to be more than a 2 month rental.....it has to be done with 3-5 year timeline when our young position players are coming into their prime years. The problem is if the evaluation is wrong, Sox will be stuck with another bad contract. I also don't want any trade based solely on doing something on Ortiz' last go around. We will regret it because if we don't win the big one, and not to just get into the playoffs, no one will remember other than prospects given up.

 

I get it that it's never an exact science but I'm pretty sure Henry is paying top dollars for his baseball people. They have to get it right sometime don't they?

 

Betts, Xander, Bradley Jr are all keepers. My read is the JF really likes Shaw. He gives us an option on both corners. Count him in. Maybe we're thinking too hard on catching situation. Swihart and Vazquez tandem can work. When offense gets better for Vazquez then Swihart can fill in at LF and 1B and or DH. That will save Swihart's body and he can still contribute offensively from another position.

 

So basically we're looking for a LF. Benintendi may be the answer. We still have Moncada and Devers. And if we go out and get a power bad for DH this off-season?

 

I'm trying to convince myself that we're in great shape as far as position players are concerned.

 

Can we get Hill for several second rung prospects? Or will we need to throw in say Espinoza or Devers? This will push back perhaps having to deal with starting pitching for few months and may not address long term solution that I started the discussion with. But it seems cheaper way to go.....Bidding may get too expensive for his services.

 

Ok, I'm talking in circles....I just don't want to part with position players and somehow pitching will turn itself around.....wishful thinking.

 

Hill would be a 2 month rental, so yes, you are talking in circles.

 

I'm not sure I'd give up Devers for Hill, even if he agreed to a 2 year extension at $6M a year. He's old and too unreliable.

 

We need a solid, durable top quality starter (maybe two).

[Spudboy]

I bet the Sox sign Edwin Encarnacion.

 

He's in his last year making $7. mil / year. How much do you offer him?

 

He's 33.

[moonslav59]

I bet the Sox sign Edwin Encarnacion.

 

I'd love his bat on the Sox, but with limited financial resources next winter, I think the money would be better spent on a SP'er and 2-3 RP'ers.

 

With Pablo returning, and Moncada, Benintendi & Travis knocking on the door, I think we'll go with what we got with non-pitchers. Here's how I see next year's depth chart position by position minus Papi:

 

C: Vazquez, Hanigan (option), Swihart, Leon, Romanowski, Procyshen, Moore, Rei

1B: Ramirez, Shaw, Travis, Holt, Sandoval, (Moncada),Witte, Longhi, nOckimey

2B: Pedroia, Moncada, Holt, Hernandez, Rutledge, Marrero, Miller, Coyle, Rijo

3B: Shaw, Sandoval, (Moncada), Hernandez, Holt, Rutledge, Marrero, Devers, Chavis

SS: Bogaerts, Hernandez, Marrero, Holt, Rutledge, Dubon

LF: Young/Swihart, (Moncada), Benintendi, Holt, LaMarre, Castillo, Basabe

CF: JBJ, Betts, Benintendi, Young, Holt, (Moncada), Castillo, Basabe

RF: Betts, Young/Swihart, Benintendi, (Moncada), Holt

DH: Ramirez/Sandoval/Swihart/Moncada, Pedroia (t rest some), Shaw, Young, Witte, Devers

 

Here's the pitching staff:

SP1) Price

SP2) ________

SP3) Wright

SP4) Porcello

SP5) Erod/Kelly/Elias/Owens/Johnson/Kopech/(Barnes), Cuevas

Closer) Kimbrel

RP2) _________

RP3) Smith

RP4) _________

RP5) Hembree

RP6) Ross

RP7) Kelly/Elias/Barnes/Layne/Owens/Johnson, Workman, N Ramirez, Light, Martin, Jerez

 

 

[moonslav59]

He's in his last year making $7. mil / year. How much do you offer him?

 

He's 33.

 

It's hard to say with these DH first type guys who can pretend to play 1B well. To his credit, he has improved at 1B, and he's actually been plus over the past two years at 1B in UZR/150, but his career mark is -7.7 at 1B, -11.6 at 3B and -743. in LF.

 

The guy has been a beast at the plate hitting over 34 HRs for the last 4 years in a row (21 so far this year). He's been over .890 in OPS for 5 straight years, counting 2016.

 

I guess if we can trade for a cheap but top quality SP'er, we can afford to sign EE.

[Jack Flap]

Can we get Hill for several second rung prospects? Or will we need to throw in say Espinoza or Devers? This will push back perhaps having to deal with starting pitching for few months and may not address long term solution that I started the discussion with. But it seems cheaper way to go.....Bidding may get too expensive for his services.

 

If we gave up Devers or Espinoza for a rental player, I might have to become a Cubs fan.

 

Hill should not get anywhere near that kind of return.

[mvp 78]

If we gave up Devers or Espinoza for a rental player, I might have to become a Cubs fan.

 

Hill should not get anywhere near that kind of return.

 

A guy on a one year deal who hits the DL annually? Yeah, I'd offer Owens at most.

[moonslav59]

A guy on a one year deal who hits the DL annually? Yeah, I'd offer Owens at most.

 

They can have Owens and Johnson. I'm done with both of them!

[a700hitter]

A guy on a one year deal who hits the DL annually? Yeah, I'd offer Owens at most.

And you like Hill.

[mvp 78]

And you like Hill.

 

I like him, but we have to be honest with what is a good value to give up. Hill is not durable in the least. If you're bringing a guy in to pitch down the stretch, you need to be sure that he'll take the mound every 5 days at the very least.

[moonslav59]

I like him, but we have to be honest with what is a good value to give up. Hill is not durable in the least. If you're bringing a guy in to pitch down the stretch, you need to be sure that he'll take the mound every 5 days at the very least.

 

I know I may be dreaming, but I'd really want a pitcher who will be with the team for at least 2 more years after this season. And, I don't mean a 4/5 slot pitcher.

[moonslav59]

Possible trade partners- teams that are out of it:

 

ATL- Tehera (25) & RP Vizcaino (25) [1B- Freddie Freeman (26)]

PHI- Nola (23), Eickoff (25), Velasquez (24), Hellickson (29), RP J Gomez (28) & H Neris

TBR- Archer (27), Smyly (27), Odorizzi (26), Moore (27), Andriese (26)

SDP- Pomeranz (27), T Ross (on DL), RP F Rodney (39) & R Buchter (29) [1B/OF W Myers (25), and salary dumps: M Kemp (31) & M Upton (31)

OAK- S Gray (26), R Hill (36), RP R Dull (26), Doolittle (29) [OF Reddick (29)]

AZ- RP B Ziegler (36), T Clippard (31), D Hudson (29), [1B Goldschmidt, 3B Jake Lamb (25), OF Y Tomas (25)]

CIN- B Finnegan (23), D Straily (27) [J Votto (32), OF J Bruce (29), A Duvall (27)]

MIL- Z Davies, J Guerra (31), RP T Thornburg (27), [OF R Braun (32)]

NYY- Sabathia (35), RP Miller (31) & Chapman (28) [OF C Beltran (39)]

COL- RP B Logan (31) [OF Carlos Gonzalez (30) & C Blackmon (29), 3B N Arendo (25)

Then there's salary dump Verlander f the Tigers.

 

[mvp 78]

I know I may be dreaming, but I'd really want a pitcher who will be with the team for at least 2 more years after this season. And, I don't mean a 4/5 slot pitcher.

 

Those guys aren't typically available at the trade deadline.

[moonslav59]

Those guys aren't typically available at the trade deadline.

 

True, only if they are high salaried or over payed. Maybe an older pitcher on a team looking to get younger.

[mvp 78]

True, only if they are high salaried or over payed. Maybe an older pitcher on a team looking to get younger.

 

I could see Pomeranz, Straily and possibly Gray being made available. The only issue with Gray is that the A's would be selling low on him.

[a700hitter]

I could see Pomeranz, Straily and possibly Gray being made available. The only issue with Gray is that the A's would be selling low on him.

Maybe Gray will insult Billy Beane and we can take advantage of Beane.

[moonslav59]

I could see Pomeranz, Straily and possibly Gray being made available. The only issue with Gray is that the A's would be selling low on him.

 

I'm not saying Gray's stock has not dipped this year, but I think sometimes posters overestimate how much a player's stock rises or falls dues to a short-term injury or short period of struggles.

 

One example I like to use is JBJ. Many Sox fans all but wrote him off, and I will admit his sample size of weak hitting was getting close to definitive, but when GMs called the Sox last winter, rumor has it they asked about JBJ.

 

GMs are not as fickle as fans.

 

The haul of prospects needed to get Gary may be more in July than it would have taken in January, due to the desperation of so many ball clubs today.

[moonslav59]

The Pirates mat become sellers, and Liriano may be available, although he's having a rough stretch.

[moonslav59]

How about Kelly, Craig and Castillo for Sabathia?

 

Just kidding.

[Kimmi]

Dombrowski is apparently pursuing starting pitching 'aggressively', but at the moment, there are only 5 teams who are willing to talk seriously. Realistically, I think we we pick up a solid 3/4 type pitcher and fortify the bullpen rather than adding a top of the rotation starter. IMO, that makes more sense.

[oldtimer]

Sandoval for Sabathia would be an equal trade if measured on the scales.

[User Name]

Sandoval for Sabathia would be an equal trade if measured on the scales.

 

Fat Sabby weighs more physically, but he's infinitely more likeable. Panda's baggage tips the scale to his side.

[Nick]

Justin Mastersen....$9.5M......seriously, can any of us do worse than Sox evaluators!

[Nick]

Thank God Ryan Dempster retired and saved us $12M