Sox Pitching Staff Discussion

[S5Dewey]

Not disingenuous, I made a mistake in recalling Price signing before Hill signed form memory. No need to call me a liar, as the point stands. Sox were in hot pursuit of an ace, were going to get him (and eventually did), and they offered Hill a similar contract than Oakland did. He chose Oakland because it offered a clearer path to playing time. Ultimately, it's the players' choice. Sox could have offered twice what Oakland offered on a 1-year deal, and he probably still chooses Oakland because if he's betting on himself, he has to go to the place that offers a clearer path to playing time so he can parlay that into another contract/more money.

 

If anything, the one true mistake the Sox made was keeping Buch and trading Miley, who at least provided IP. Also, no way to know for sure Hill would be maintaining the same numbers he is now pitching consistently at Fenway/Camden/Rogers.

 

Sorry. It wasn't my intention to call you a liar. I save that for posters who are intentionally lying to me. No offense intended.

[moonslav59]

I realize Jamie Shields is overpaid and aging, but I have to think he'd be better than what we are sending to the mound 2 out of every 5 games.

I hate the fact that his contract would restrict us going forward, and maybe the Padres would pay part of his deal, but then we'd have to just send better and/or more prospects to get the deal done.

 

I'm thinking of the chance for a possible blockbuster with the Padres.

 

To Boston:

 

Jamie Shields (Owed about $14M more this year plus $44M/2 or $58M/3 after 2016, so $58M/3 or $73M/4.

2-7 4.28 / 1.426 WHIP

 

Melvin Upton (Owed about $10M more this year plus $16.5M next year.)

.251/.312/.395/.706

 

Fernando Rodney (Owens about 1.3M this year plus $2M next year with $400K buyout.)

0.00 ERA in 20 IP with a 0.850 WHIP.

 

Total cost: $86M to 93MM

 

To SDP:

Rusney Castillo $53M/5 (To offset some of Shields and Upton's deal)

Joe Kdelly $1.7MM

Blake Swihart $600K

Rafael Devers $500K

Henry Owens & Brian Hohnson $700K)

Cash: $5M 2016, $6.5M 2017 and $8M 2018

Total cost: $67M

 

The Padres save about $16M and get many more years of control at reasonable costs.

 

 

 

[Jack Flap]

I get why Hill didn't sign with us, but "You'll have a rotation spot here unless both Clay Buchholz and Joe Kelly are healthy and suck less than you at any given time" is a compelling argument nonetheless, and one that I hope was presented to him.

[User Name]

I realize Jamie Shields is overpaid and aging, but I have to think he'd be better than what we are sending to the mound 2 out of every 5 games.

I hate the fact that his contract would restrict us going forward, and maybe the Padres would pay part of his deal, but then we'd have to just send better and/or more prospects to get the deal done.

 

I'm thinking of the chance for a possible blockbuster with the Padres.

 

To Boston:

 

Jamie Shields (Owed about $14M more this year plus $44M/2 or $58M/3 after 2016, so $58M/3 or $73M/4.

2-7 4.28 / 1.426 WHIP

 

Melvin Upton (Owed about $10M more this year plus $16.5M next year.)

.251/.312/.395/.706

 

Fernando Rodney (Owens about 1.3M this year plus $2M next year with $400K buyout.)

0.00 ERA in 20 IP with a 0.850 WHIP.

 

Total cost: $86M to 93MM

 

To SDP:

Rusney Castillo $53M/5 (To offset some of Shields and Upton's deal)

Joe Kdelly $1.7MM

Blake Swihart $600K

Rafael Devers $500K

Henry Owens & Brian Hohnson $700K)

Cash: $5M 2016, $6.5M 2017 and $8M 2018

Total cost: $67M

 

The Padres save about $16M and get many more years of control at reasonable costs.

 

 

 

 

Swihart and Devers for an aging Shields, BJ (yes, he's BJ) Upton, and Fernando Rodney? That's just a terrible all around trade proposal.

[Jack Flap]

I realize Jamie Shields is overpaid and aging, but I have to think he'd be better than what we are sending to the mound 2 out of every 5 games.

I hate the fact that his contract would restrict us going forward, and maybe the Padres would pay part of his deal, but then we'd have to just send better and/or more prospects to get the deal done.

 

I'm thinking of the chance for a possible blockbuster with the Padres.

 

To Boston:

 

Jamie Shields (Owed about $14M more this year plus $44M/2 or $58M/3 after 2016, so $58M/3 or $73M/4.

2-7 4.28 / 1.426 WHIP

 

Melvin Upton (Owed about $10M more this year plus $16.5M next year.)

.251/.312/.395/.706

 

Fernando Rodney (Owens about 1.3M this year plus $2M next year with $400K buyout.)

0.00 ERA in 20 IP with a 0.850 WHIP.

 

Total cost: $86M to 93MM

 

To SDP:

Rusney Castillo $53M/5 (To offset some of Shields and Upton's deal)

Joe Kdelly $1.7MM

Blake Swihart $600K

Rafael Devers $500K

Henry Owens & Brian Hohnson $700K)

Cash: $5M 2016, $6.5M 2017 and $8M 2018

Total cost: $67M

 

The Padres save about $16M and get many more years of control at reasonable costs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As always, I admire the thought you put into making this work, but I just think there are easier ways for us to find a #4 pitcher. Taking Shields (he of the 4.00 ERA and 4.45 FIP the last two years in the NL West) and dropping him back in the AL East to face the O's and Jays is not a pretty thought...maybe I'd take him as a straight salary dump, but losing Swihart and Devers in a deal for Shields, overpaid scrub Upton, and an old RP with a good 20-inning sample would hurt, and I'm not sure it makes us much better even in the short term. I'd like to shed Castillo's contract, too (at least if we're not going to play him, which clearly we aren't), but not that badly.

 

Am I just really underrating Shields here?

Edited June 3, 2016 by Jack Flap

[SinceYaz]

Although the K Cars saved Chrysler.

 

I was Mopar, if you know what that means. We grew up with the non-GM, Ford products, actually, so sorta Mopar by birth - if you throw in Rambler/AMC as well. So K Cars helped, but they were poorly built. Heck a lot of Detroit was then. I still love Chargers/Road Runners, Challengers, and Javelins but I'm even fond of Gremlins. If the wife would allow, I'd probably own a Cube (I like the unusual, but that is too ugly for her).

 

As it is, I can't drive - seizures. But I ride my bicycle to work three miles a day. I just sprang for a new Schwinn, after always owning a Columbia or Huffy ... I wear them out about every 18 months. Anyway, it's a throwback to the 1950's style... I spent more than a buck fifty, which is half again what I usually pay.

[Jack Flap]

Swihart and Devers for an aging Shields, BJ (yes, he's BJ) Upton, and Fernando Rodney? That's just a terrible all around trade proposal.

 

Yeah. I think we've already done enough to help Preller get his rebuilding project off the ground.

[Jasonbay44]

Id be find getting Rodney and Shields, but Upton, no.

 

It also shouldn't cost two legit prospects for a 39 year old reliever, a bum outfielder and James Shields, who is declining as well.

[harmony]

As always, I admire the thought you put into making this work, but I just think there are easier ways for us to find a #4 pitcher. Taking Shields (he of the 4.00 ERA and 4.45 FIP the last two years in the NL West) and dropping him back in the AL East to face the O's and Jays is not a pretty thought...maybe I'd take him as a straight salary dump, but losing Swihart and Devers in a deal for Shields, overpaid scrub Upton, and an old RP with a good 20-inning sample would hurt, and I'm not sure it makes us much better even in the short term. I'd like to shed Castillo's contract, too (at least if we're not going to play him, which clearly we aren't), but not that badly.

 

Am I just really underrating Shields here?

Perhaps you're underrating Melvin Upton, who has been valued at 2.6 fWAR ($20.3 million) in 142 games over the last two seasons. The Padres could be taking a significant step down to a disappointing Rusney Castillo, who over more years is owed more money as he approaches his 29th birthday next month.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5015&position=OF#value

[Jack Flap]

Perhaps you're underrating Melvin Upton, who has been valued at 2.6 fWAR ($20.3 million) in 142 games over the last two seasons. The Padres could be taking a significant step down to a disappointing Rusney Castillo, who over more years is owed more money as he approaches his 29th birthday next month.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5015&position=OF#value

 

That's cool and all, and I salute the Padres for getting such a bargain, but I still would not give up any prospect of significance for him.

[harmony]

That's cool and all, and I salute the Padres for getting such a bargain, but I still would not give up any prospect of significance for him.

I suspect the Padres would gladly take Melvin Upton out of the equation if the Red Sox would remove Rusney Castillo.

[Spudboy]

Miley is horrible this year. No great loss.

 

Most likely the weed in Boston suited him better.

[Kimmi]

The sky is falling?

 

Well, the Sox are now only on pace to win 96 games rather than 99 games. So yeah!

[Kimmi]

Losing the last two games the way they did is enough to piss off the most optimistic fan.

They score 16 runs in 2 games, you expect at least one W.

 

They were extremely frustrating losses. It's tough for the offense to fight back, only to have the pitching staff squander it away again.

[Emp9]

Anyone like Julio Teheran?

 

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2016/6/3/11853700/braves-rumors-teheran-ogando-markakis-flowers-francoeur-johnson-beckham

[User Name]

Pass on my end. Hate his mechanics and inconsistency.

[Kimmi]

Fortunately, the Sox do have the luxury of waiting to acquire more pitching help, though at times it may not feel like it. Teams are just not readily willing to part with any major league players, namely starting pitchers, of quality this early in the season.

 

Dombrowski said today that he was ready to make a trade. Finding a trade partner, however, is a whole other story.

[Kimmi]

The Sox are going to go with a 4 man rotation until June 18, so that helps a little.

[southpaw777]

we can get a TOTR SP without trading any of the 3 b's....

 

I dont want to. Id rather package swihart with a couple prospects not named benintendi moncada or espinoza

[Spudboy]

Well, the Sox are now only on pace to win 96 games rather than 99 games. So yeah!

 

I was being sarcastic.

 

No one noticed, I guess.

[Spudboy]

I dont want to. Id rather package swihart with a couple prospects not named benintendi moncada or espinoza

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

I'd add Swihart to that list.

 

People have lost sight of how big a talent Swihart is.

 

And I don't believe that a pitcher of sufficient quality will be available to warrant letting Swihart go.

[moonslav59]

Swihart and Devers for an aging Shields, BJ (yes, he's BJ) Upton, and Fernando Rodney? That's just a terrible all around trade proposal.

 

Rodney is doing very well. Taking Upton's contract makes the return less.

 

I think Shields is better than his numbers indicate, and he's much better than Kelly, Buch and others we've been throwing out there.

 

It's not a great deal for us, but Rodney alone could put us over the top.

[moonslav59]

People have lost sight of how big a talent Swihart is.

 

I disagree. Thinking he's the best trade candidate does not mean we devalue him.

 

We see his value as a catcher for another team as higher than his value to us as a LF'er.

 

That's what makes trading him logical.

[User Name]

Rodney is doing very well. Taking Upton's contract makes the return less.

 

I think Shields is better than his numbers indicate, and he's much better than Kelly, Buch and others we've been throwing out there.

 

It's not a great deal for us, but Rodney alone could put us over the top.

 

"Not great"? It's highway robbery!

[southpaw777]

I respectfully disagree.

 

I'd add Swihart to that list.

 

People have lost sight of how big a talent Swihart is.

 

And I don't believe that a pitcher of sufficient quality will be available to warrant letting Swihart go.

 

My point was that if there was a worthy pitcher available then my choice would be to let go of swihart for that pitcher. I doubt anyone has lost sight of how talented he is. In fact, to see how well hes done in LF just speaks to his athleticism and to just how much value he has...

[jacksonianmarch]

Man UN, you and I are agreeing more than usual now. Sign of the times. Shields has an unpalatable back loaded contract paying him at an ace rate. He's not an ace anymore and adjusting for park factors, he's more a 3 right now. Upton is vastly overpaid and his production is starting to wane after a hot start. If the sox ate both contracts, they'd get Rodney as a throw in and would need to send back a B level player at best.

[mvp 78]

A blockbuster trade with a garbage NL West team will not fix this team. Moving Devers for that would be a waste.

 

The Pads just ripped their whole team, including Shields. You could get Shields for a substantial discount right now. Could probably deal Kelly and Owens straight up for him if you take his entire contract.

[SoxnCycles]

So, when does it warm up enough for Price to start earning his contract?

 

Trading for a "#2" is a waste of resources if the rest of the staff is going to be mediocre.

[Bellhorn04]

Adding Shields would be adding another Porcello. A mid-rotation guy you're paying 19 million a year plus tax. Not really the answer.

[Spudboy]

Upton is an overrated waste of time.

 

Shields is not what he used to be but at half his current contract might be a better option than the f***ing stiffs the Sox swear by.

 

I don't like the crooked cap but Rodney can still be good.

 

I think that DD is going to make a deal for someone who is not on the Talksox A list of suspects. Of course I have no idea whom that may be.

 

What exactly is the problem with Sonny Gray this year?