Clay Buchholz - Is he worth the 2016 option?

[Kimmi]

Your math is whack.

 

LOL Great minds.

[moonslav59]

Price is probably 10 times the pitcher Buch is, I think we're getting carried away with the semantics of the point on "3 X the pitcher".

 

We all know we needed an ace.

 

We used all our big prospects to get Sale, Pom & Kimbrel.

 

As much as I hate these large and long contracts, I felt Price has the history that supported the idea that he was probably the best bet to give us what we so badly needed (and still do).

 

Without Price or Sale, we don't stand much of a chance.

[Kimmi]

We all know how the baseball free agent market works, Slash. Elite talent gets ridiculous paydays. Buch is not an elite talent, so the initial comparison was apples to oranges anyway. But mvp's 3 times the pitcher is about right.

 

So, you think that Clay was not worth taking a chance on for a mere $13 million?

[SoxnCycles]

he's only had 2 seasons that i would call his pitching "elite talent" . i think that is what SnC meant.

 

unless you are OK with 7 years / 217MM for an "innings eater"?

 

Exactly.

Can't wait to see Mr Tingly pitch when it turns cold in Boston again.

[Kimmi]

oh i would not argue against price being 3x the talent that clay has been over their careers. and as i've tried to explain my math comment was not about talent but about price / years. that was my original point....

if you were NOT OK with Clay at 1 year for $13MM...then are you OK with Price at 7 years for $217MM. 217 is way more than 3x 13. that was my point about the math.

 

I am with you 100% on this one Slash.

 

I said it at the time that Price was signed that it makes no sense to be OK with giving Price a 7 year, $217 mil deal but not being OK with giving Clay a $13 mil deal. No sense whatsoever.

[Slasher9]

Exactly.

Can't wait to see Mr Tingly pitch when it turns cold in Boston again.

 

just pray it isnt both cold and a game vs NYY. he will probably pull a groin muscle squatting on the can causing him to miss the start.......

[Kimmi]

Price is probably 10 times the pitcher Buch is, I think we're getting carried away with the semantics of the point on "3 X the pitcher".

 

We all know we needed an ace.

 

We used all our big prospects to get Sale, Pom & Kimbrel.

 

As much as I hate these large and long contracts, I felt Price has the history that supported the idea that he was probably the best bet to give us what we so badly needed (and still do).

 

Without Price or Sale, we don't stand much of a chance.

 

Price probably was the best bet to give a long term deal to as far as aging pitchers go.

 

It still doesn't make it the right thing to do.

 

I would like to clarify for the record, though, that unlike some others, I am very happy to have Price on the team, despite the ugly contract.

[Slasher9]

I am with you 100% on this one Slash.

 

I said it at the time that Price was signed that it makes no sense to be OK with giving Price a 7 year, $217 mil deal but not being OK with giving Clay a $13 mil deal. No sense whatsoever.

especially when some of us were screaming to sign Cueto for 1/2 the $$$ it cost for Price.....

imagine how much better off the 2016-2022 red sox would be if DD went that route.....

[OH FOY]

I miss Clay after a hard week of work, I looked forward for him to pitch Sunday Afternoons, some of my best naps were because of this guy. He helped me get recharged for the week.

Go to sleep by 1:30, wake up at 3:30, and its only the 5th inning.

He would throw to 1st,4 or 5 times if a guy was crutches. He cracked me up.

Edited June 27, 2018 by OH FOY!

[Kimmi]

especially when some of us were screaming to sign Cueto for 1/2 the $$$ it cost for Price.....

imagine how much better off the 2016-2022 red sox would be if DD went that route.....

 

I do think that there were other routes that Dombrowski could have gone that would have us in better shape for the longer term.

[Slasher9]

I do think that there were other routes that Dombrowski could have gone that would have us in better shape for the longer term.

 

yup. but i agree with you...we have him so hopefully Price can get us a parade. he has been throwing the ball very well this season other then ducking the yankees. i believe this is our "go for it" year. and we will need price to be Ace for it to happen.

[OH FOY]

We got Josh Tobias for him, ha. 25 year old still in Double AA Portland.

[SoxnCycles]

just pray it isnt both cold and a game vs NYY. he will probably pull a groin muscle squatting on the can causing him to miss the start.......

 

LOL

He may have a good shot this Sunday. There will be a heat wave in Boston this weekend.

[SoxHop]

yup. but i agree with you...we have him so hopefully Price can get us a parade. he has been throwing the ball very well this season other then ducking the yankees. i believe this is our "go for it" year. and we will need price to be Ace for it to happen.

 

You're classic. I can get the distrust of Price a bit.

 

With Clay, the uncertainty was worth money as you had to have a backup plan. It was time to cut bait with the guy IMO

[Kimmi]

yup. but i agree with you...we have him so hopefully Price can get us a parade. he has been throwing the ball very well this season other then ducking the yankees. i believe this is our "go for it" year. and we will need price to be Ace for it to happen.

 

I am anxious to see how Price pitches against the Yankees this weekend. My money is on Price pitching a good game.

[Bellhorn04]

So, you think that Clay was not worth taking a chance on for a mere $13 million?

 

I didn't say that. I was in favor of exercising the 2016 option. You can put me down as a Clay sucker too.

[moonslav59]

Price probably was the best bet to give a long term deal to as far as aging pitchers go.

 

It still doesn't make it the right thing to do.

 

I would like to clarify for the record, though, that unlike some others, I am very happy to have Price on the team, despite the ugly contract.

 

That's kind of how I feel, but I was "okay" with the deal at the time. There was really no other way to get pitchers like Price and Sale without doing what we did.

 

Of course building and keeping a strong farm is the best way, but we've gone so long without developing a major force pitcher, expecting one to materialize (Kelly/Barnes/Ranaudo/Kopech/Espinoza?) was not realistic.

Edited June 27, 2018 by moonslav59

[Spudboy]

I didn't say that. I was in favor of exercising the 2016 option. You can put me down as a Clay sucker too.

 

I was very opposed to it because he had only flirted with being dominant and the rest of the time he sucked big green donkey dicks.

 

To me, there was no reason evident to suggest that he would be effective enough to warrant the additional money for a player that played to his level.

 

I figured he was going to continue to suck more than to pitch well and that is what happened.

[mvp 78]

then we should have given price a 3 year / $39MM contract.

 

C'mon. I know you're not this dumb.

[mvp 78]

Price is 3X the pitcher so we're going to pay him 16 times as much???

 

Sorry, but 7 years for a pitcher in his 30s is crazy, no matter how good the pitcher is.

 

More years of control you silly goose. I'd rather pay Price 30M 3 years from now rather than have the corpse of Clay Buchholz rotting on the DL.

[Kimmi]

More years of control you silly goose. I'd rather pay Price 30M 3 years from now rather than have the corpse of Clay Buchholz rotting on the DL.

 

It's not just about that one year that's 3 years from now though. It's about the entire 7 years, so that 'more years of control' is kind of my point. Also, it remains to be seen whether I'd rather pay Price $30 mil for that one year than I would Buchholz for his one year.

[Bellhorn04]

He looked damn good last night. He's still quite a teaser...

[Kimmi]

He looked damn good last night. He's still quite a teaser...

 

He has always had good stuff. Ace quality stuff.

 

Maybe we can trade for him.

[sk7326]

He looked damn good last night. He's still quite a teaser...

 

That is an All-Star level changeup - the command came and went but the stuff was ace level.

[Bellhorn04]

He has always had good stuff. Ace quality stuff.

 

Maybe we can trade for him.

 

I predict he ends up back with Theo.

[Bellhorn04]

Still pitching great.

[Dojji]

Buchholz is not our problem anymore. He and his inconsistency are free to do whatever they want to do without aggravating me in the slightest.

[notin]

Well, prior to Johnson, Clay is the most recent MLB starting pitcher to come all the way through the Sox organization...

[notin]

Buchholz is not our problem anymore. He and his inconsistency are free to do whatever they want to do without aggravating me in the slightest.

 

It's funny how no one wants back Buchholz (80 IP, 191 ERA+, 1.025 WHIP), but a lot of people are excited about Johnson (83 IP, 106 ERA+, 1.373 WHIP) for basically the same money...

[Slasher9]

I heart Clay. wish he was still a Red Sox.

always was and always will be a "no brainer" to keep him.