Referendum on John Farrell

[Kimmi]

I concur but he also took a championship team and turned it into two consecutive last place teams...but anyone who says that the Red Sox at home are not considerably better doesn't know much baseball or the understand the fan base....big mistake by JF imo to lay up after clinching

 

You also bashed 'Francoma' endlessly when he was with the Sox. Now that he's with the Guardians, he's a genius. Go figure.

[moonslav59]

The team had a couple of bad games. It's not because of lack of momentum. It's not because of lack of home field advantage. It's because they played badly. End of story.

 

Our society has become obsessed with laying blame. Like every slump needs a reason- needs a person to pin it all on.

 

We peaked a little too early. It happens.

 

It's not over yet, because this team has shown it can turn around on a dime either way- to the good or the bad.

[georom4]

Do you think they played "badly" at the end of the season or they mailed it in? I think you seem to be missing the point. Are you seriously saying that the playoffs starting in Boston would have resulted in the same scores???

[georom4]

How many times did you see Francona as Red Sox manager pull someone in the fifth inning when they were WINNING? Give me a break. He's not a genius but he made a brilliant gusty move and deserves credit for it. That doesnt change the fact that he literally slept through games as a Sox manager. You are capable of considering two opposing ideas in your brain, right?

[georom4]

This statement is laughable.

 

As far as Papi's retirement tour, there may be some truth to Papi being 'hung over' from the exhaustion, but to say that the team lost focus due to his retirement is off the mark. The team has said that they are more focused because they are playing for Papi.

 

The team had a couple of bad games. It's not because of lack of momentum. It's not because of lack of home field advantage. It's because they played badly. End of story.

 

You're wrong and ill informed - as usual. Buckley has written about this already. As usual you're holding your fingers in your ears and not listening. Plus they didnt play badly at the end - they played indifferently with numerous lineups. That's totally on JF when fighting it out for the second seed.

[moonslav59]

How many times did you see Francona as Red Sox manager pull someone in the fifth inning when they were WINNING? Give me a break. He's not a genius but he made a brilliant gusty move and deserves credit for it. That doesnt change the fact that he literally slept through games as a Sox manager. You are capable of considering two opposing ideas in your brain, right?

 

Like the opposing idea that when he left a guy in when we were winning, and he got shelled, he was bashed for leaving the guy in too long as well?

[Kimmi]

The team had a couple of bad games. It's not because of lack of momentum. It's not because of lack of home field advantage. It's because they played badly. End of story.

 

Our society has become obsessed with laying blame. Like every slump needs a reason- needs a person to pin it all on.

 

We peaked a little too early. It happens.

 

It's not over yet, because this team has shown it can turn around on a dime either way- to the good or the bad.

 

I'm not sure I agree that we 'peaked too early', but overall, I agree with what you're saying. Every team slumps. Every team has losing streaks. We happened to lose 2 games to open the postseason, which makes things look very dire.

[Kimmi]

Do you think they played "badly" at the end of the season or they mailed it in? I think you seem to be missing the point. Are you seriously saying that the playoffs starting in Boston would have resulted in the same scores???

 

Who knows what the scores would have been if the playoffs started in Boston?

 

Our offense scores more at Fenway, but our pitchers also give up more runs at Fenway. Perhaps the Guardians would have won by larger margins.

[Bellhorn04]

You're wrong and ill informed - as usual. Buckley has written about this already. As usual you're holding your fingers in your ears and not listening. Plus they didnt play badly at the end - they played indifferently with numerous lineups. That's totally on JF when fighting it out for the second seed.

 

Nonsense. That last series against the Jays, it was regular lineups. They lost 2 out of 3, all close games, to a playoff team. There's no indication they weren't trying to win those games.

[Kimmi]

You're wrong and ill informed - as usual. Buckley has written about this already. As usual you're holding your fingers in your ears and not listening. Plus they didnt play badly at the end - they played indifferently with numerous lineups. That's totally on JF when fighting it out for the second seed.

 

They didn't play indifferently. They played with the idea that getting the players some much needed rest was more important than going all out to get HFA. That was the absolute correct move for Farrell to make.

 

Farrell was also likely getting a last look at some of the bench players and relievers to see who he wanted on the postseason roster.

[jacksonianmarch]

You're down 2-0 because two reliable pitchers for their tits lit before Farrell even had a chance to manage. I doubt venue would have changed that

[georom4]

Nonsense. That last series against the Jays, it was regular lineups. They lost 2 out of 3, all close games, to a playoff team. There's no indication they weren't trying to win those games.

 

He pulled Price out of the game after 5...all they had to do was win that game to force Cleveland into an extra game...and then they would have had to win it to get home field...plus Saturday's lineup was filled with Hill, Young, Vazquez, etc....he wasn't trying hard to win....the facts are there...

[Northern Star]

Ridiculous to say if the games were in Boston that somehow means we automatically win. Guardians are white-hot, Porcello reverted to 2015 form and David Price is David Price.

[Bellhorn04]

He pulled Price out of the game after 5...all they had to do was win that game to force Cleveland into an extra game...and then they would have had to win it to get home field...plus Saturday's lineup was filled with Hill, Young, Vazquez, etc....he wasn't trying hard to win....the facts are there...

 

Saturday the Jays starter was a lefty...Hill and Young usually started against lefties...you're right, the facts are there.

[Spudboy]

lol

[devildavid]

Nonsense. That last series against the Jays, it was regular lineups. They lost 2 out of 3, all close games, to a playoff team. There's no indication they weren't trying to win those games.

 

You are right. Those were tough games against a tough opponent that had a lot at stake. The Sox in no way, shape, or form rolled over to the Jays. Hard fought games that didn't all go our way. No indication that the effort wasn't there.

[Fan_since_Boggs]

I wonder about this too. Was making the playoffs (winning the division) enough to save John Farrell's job or does he have to go deep into the playoffs in order to save his job? Don't know.....

[Nick]

JF is going no where......DD just recently said he did a great job managing this year.

 

Sometimes fans look for something that's not there.

 

I'm not a big fan of JF but I don't believe he's the difference maker, good or bad. It's the players' game.

[moonslav59]

JF is going no where......DD just recently said he did a great job managing this year.

 

I agree that JF is not going to get canned, but even if DD was considering a change, he'd still say what he said about JF. You can't really read into this all that much.

 

Sometimes fans look for something that's not there.

 

I'm not a big fan of JF but I don't believe he's the difference maker, good or bad. It's the players' game.

 

Agreed. 100%.

[Maxbialystock]

How many times did you see Francona as Red Sox manager pull someone in the fifth inning when they were WINNING? Give me a break. He's not a genius but he made a brilliant gusty move and deserves credit for it. That doesnt change the fact that he literally slept through games as a Sox manager. You are capable of considering two opposing ideas in your brain, right?

 

This and the OP are rich with irony because Georom4 never defended Farrell--how could he with just 20 posts?--and regularly excoriated Terry Francona over on BDC where he used to call him "Francoma" and basically blamed him for every loss.

 

And where in the world does he get the notion--which, I admit others seem to have--that the Sox have a huge advantage at Fenway? The fact is that this season the Sox won exactly one more game at Fenway than they did on the road. Look it up. And, as I pointed out in a previous post, in the playoffs this year the away team is winning about as often as the home team.

 

A far more accurate predictor is the quality of the starting pitchers.

 

While I have in fact defended Farrell a lot, I've also been unhappy with him now and then, but this year I have to give him a ton of credit for the great September finish, winning the ALE, and winning 93 games. And, don't forget, almost half of those 162 games were in the AL East which had 4 teams over .500, 3 teams in the playoffs, and right now the ALE 2d place Toronto Blue Jays looking like a good bet for the ALCS. They finished second and avoided missing the playoffs by taking 2 of 3 from the Sox at, guess where, Fenway, and against the Sox regular lineup and starting pitchers Porcello, ERod, and Price.

 

As for the Buckley article, what a crock.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Maxbialystock

[mvp 78]

Pessimism? Are you in a coma? Also, who appointed you the thread police? Stick this title up your ass - maybe it will loosen it up a little and you can breathe better asshat...

 

http://www.talksox.com/forum/threads/17604-New-announcement-please-read-last-post-8-16-2016

[mvp 78]

you also bashed 'francoma' endlessly when he was with the sox. Now that he's with the Guardians, he's a genius. Go figure.

 

qft...

[mvp 78]

Ridiculous to say if the games were in Boston that somehow means we automatically win. Guardians are white-hot, Porcello reverted to 2015 form and David Price is David Price.

 

I don't see HFA as the issue right now either.

[mvp 78]

Anyone who used to use "Francoma" in an unironic sense is a terrible person.

[Maxbialystock]

How many times did you see Francona as Red Sox manager pull someone in the fifth inning when they were WINNING? Give me a break. He's not a genius but he made a brilliant gusty move and deserves credit for it. That doesnt change the fact that he literally slept through games as a Sox manager. You are capable of considering two opposing ideas in your brain, right?

 

Brilliant, gutsy move? Bauer was not, is not a topline starter and had already given up 2 dingers and 3 runs in 4.2 innings and Cleveland has one of the best bullpens if not the best in the AL and at that point had a 4-3 lead.

Farrell could have done the same thing for/with Porcello and Price except one gave up 4 runs in 3 innings and the other 4 runs in 2 innings. Plus both of course are supposed to be topline starters.

[Maxbialystock]

He pulled Price out of the game after 5...all they had to do was win that game to force Cleveland into an extra game...and then they would have had to win it to get home field...plus Saturday's lineup was filled with Hill, Young, Vazquez, etc....he wasn't trying hard to win....the facts are there...

 

You have to be kidding. That Price got through 5 while giving up just a one dinger (and one run) was semi-miraculous. Sooner or later he was going to throw one of his patented fastballs--but not too fast--near the middle of the strike zone and on a count when the hitter would look for one. And probably with a man or two on base.

 

Plus you are blithely ignoring the fact that the Sox scored exactly one run in that game. How exactly was Price going to fix that?

[Spudboy]

You have to be kidding. That Price got through 5 while giving up just a one dinger (and one run) was semi-miraculous. Sooner or later he was going to throw one of his patented fastballs--but not too fast--near the middle of the strike zone and on a count when the hitter would look for one. And probably with a man or two on base.

 

Plus you are blithely ignoring the fact that the Sox scored exactly one run in that game. How exactly was Price going to fix that?

 

Excellent choice of words.

[Dojji]

JF is going no where......DD just recently said he did a great job managing this year.

 

Sometimes fans look for something that's not there.

 

I'm not a big fan of JF but I don't believe he's the difference maker, good or bad. It's the players' game.

 

Agreed. Also let's give some goddamn credit to the Guardians! How about recognizing the fact that the other team played well? Why is that so hard for some fans?

 

Sometimes you just lose to a hotter team. Sometimes it isn't your year. This would seem to not be our year. Oh well. The team placed well in the regular season, we're going to have a division pennant to display if nothing else, and we don't have too many of those over our very long history. That's a hell of a lot better than last place. Farrell did his job, he's OK. Not great, not terrible, OK. Good enough to be our manager until his next extension at any rate.

 

The only thing all year you could really fry JF for is the Wright injury, and if any of you really want to seriously try to tell me that a knuckleballer is going to be the big difference in postseason ball I have some wetland to sell you in New Mexico. Besides, Wright was already trending down a bit after his gargantuan start to the season, and odds are Wright wouldn't even have pitched yet in the series if healthy. We were always gonna roll the dice with Porcello and Price in the first 2 games, and it happens that they got beat by a good team. These things happen, and assigning "blame" when they do is a silly and petty thing to do.

 

This is not the Grady Little story. We rolled our best out there, and our best didn't execute. Simply put, we've been beaten by the better team each of the last 2 games. That has to be OK. It has to be allowable that a better team beats you in the playoffs. That has to be a thing that we are capable of accepting.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Dojji

[Northern Star]

Agreed. Let's give some goddamn credit to the Guardians! How about recognizing the fact that the other team played well? Why is that so hard for some fans?

 

because of preconceived notions/agendas.

[Dojji]

That said I do wish we still had Tito. Not because Farrell's so bad, but because the reason we fired him was utter BS. We fired Francona because the ownership group was trying to live in denial that the good times of the 2007 core were winding down. The 2011 team fell apart for reasons that had rather little to do with the manager, but the media got hold of some clubhouse nonsense that didn't actually matter and the ownership decided they could keep the money train rolling by pretending the whole thing was Tito's fault rather than our own complete inability to develop a homegrown starting pitcher of any reasonable quality or skill. I'm a bit embarrassed to admit that I enjoyed the rude awakening they got in 2012 after he was gone when the team went from "flawed but very competitive" to "ultimate stankteam."