Referendum on John Farrell

[Bellhorn04]

Therein lies the problem.

 

Middlebrooks was beyond damaged goods by the time the 2013 Postseason began.

 

The weak links in that lineup were Salty's glove, Drew's bat and WMB's everything. In the Postseason, I would err on the side of defense and replace WMB and Salty with the backup options.

 

Couldn't really expect a career backup guy like Ross to play every postseason game (potentially 19 games) though, I don't think.

[mvp 78]

Couldn't really expect a career backup guy like Ross to play every postseason game (potentially 19 games) though, I don't think.

 

No, not every, but the majority. I realize that it's extremely hard for catchers to play every day. Knowing that there are additional off days in the playoffs, a catcher could probably go 4 out of 5 games without much trouble.

[Maxbialystock]

Therein lies the problem.

 

Middlebrooks was beyond damaged goods by the time the 2013 Postseason began.

 

The weak links in that lineup were Salty's glove, Drew's bat and WMB's everything. In the Postseason, I would err on the side of defense and replace WMB and Salty with the backup options.

 

In the postseason you go with what got you there. REmember, the lineup you disparage is the one that led MLB in runs scored and OPS, and Bogaerts contributed 18 games, 44 at bats. and a .684 OPS. Middlebrooks OPS was .696 with 17 dingers. It seems to me that Farrell started with the guys who got them there, but adjusted based on outcomes. Bogaerts hit well in the postseason and Middlebrooks did not, so by the WS Bogaerts was playing in all 6 games to Middlebrooks 1 game. A reasonable adjustment by Farrell. As for Salty, he was one of the best hitting catchers in the AL. This year we thought we had a solid defensive catcher in Vazquez, just what you would have ordered, but where is he now? In AAA because he can't hit and Sandy Leon can. Indeed, I will go one step further and say that defense does not win games in MLB. Hitting and pitching do. Defense and baserunning are important, but secondary.

 

Besides, the one thing you can be sure of in the playoffs is that managers will not hesitate to make adjustments as they see fit to do. Wasn't Coco Crisp our CF in 2007 and didn't Ellsbury get some starts in the 2007 postseason and WS? Same thing happened to Nava/Gomes, Middlebrooks/Bogaerts, and Salty/Ross in the 2013 postseason. But you at least start the dance with whoever brung you.

[Bellhorn04]

Same here Dude.

 

[oldtimer]

Pretty clear Wright was not right tonight. Farrell stayed with him despite the obvious lack of effectiveness and put a good effort by the Red Sox offense to regain the lead back into a 3 run deficit. The Red Sox are in a struggle to stay in the race with Baltimore and Toronto so they need Farrell to be proactive and give the Sox the best chance to win.

[Jasonbay44]

I liked Francona a lot and thought he was a great manager and think he's doing a pretty damn good job in Cleveland.

 

Farrell I think is doing decent, don't really care for him one way or another. I criticize some of his moves, but he doesn't make our pitchers suck, which has been a majority of this teams problems.

[oldtimer]

I liked Francona a lot and thought he was a great manager and think he's doing a pretty damn good job in Cleveland.

 

Farrell I think is doing decent, don't really care for him one way or another. I criticize some of his moves, but he doesn't make our pitchers suck, which has been a majority of this teams problems.

 

Yes, but when one like Robbie Ross gives up a single and two straight walks to load the bases late in a tie game, what are the chances he walks in a run. He did and Kelly was finally brought in, but too late to avoid giving the lead back. The manager does impact the game by the decisions he makes and doesn't make. Twice tonight I questioned his moves. We need to win now and that is hard to do when giving up leads when you have a better option.

[Jasonbay44]

Yes, but when one like Robbie Ross gives up a single and two straight walks to load the bases late in a tie game, what are the chances he walks in a run. He did and Kelly was finally brought in, but too late to avoid giving the lead back. The manager does impact the game by the decisions he makes and doesn't make. Twice tonight I questioned his moves. We need to win now and that is hard to do when giving up leads when you have a better option.

 

Tonight he has been bad, yes. I thought both Wright and Ross were left in too long. However, overall this season, he hasn't been terrible and has had a lot of s***** situations/options due to his terrible bullpen options and now injuries.

[a700hitter]

Farrell waited for 8 runs before giving Wright the hook. That was much too long, and I agree that he waited too long with Ross.

[SinceYaz]

I don't know where this fits in to the overall history of the thread, but I know that since there is a single thread about Farrell another would be looked down upon here.

 

I simply don't know what Farrell is waiting on when it is obvious that his pitcher is losing it. GeezoPete! Three times this week, at least, and this week alone he has left guys in when they should have easily been pulled. Wright has been a pleasure to watch most of the season, but not today. Why leave him in for eight runs!!!???

 

Earlier with Kelly and Buch ... even Price ... Holy COW! I know the pen is pushed ... but do we have to wait until time after time the offense bails out the pitching and Farrell leaves guys in until it is a hopeless mess!

 

I honestly am sitting here just shaking my head ... what can make this guy pull the plug on someone before we get hit by a tsunami by the other guys?

 

Disgusting.

[moonslav59]

Too many games like this with our starter getting shelled and being left in too soon.

 

I've stayed away from this thread, because I rarely blame the manager. I was one of the last to jump on board the dump Valantine wagon.

 

I thought we should have replaced Farrell last season. Nothing has changed that opinion, but I don't blame him all that much. I'm not one that enjoys playing the blame game.

[SinceYaz]

Too many games like this with our starter getting shelled and being left in too soon.

 

I've stayed away from this thread, because I rarely blame the manager. I was one of the last to jump on board the dump Valantine wagon.

 

I thought we should have replaced Farrell last season. Nothing has changed that opinion, but I don't blame him all that much. I'm not one that enjoys playing the blame game.

 

You know me, Moon. I rarely state a negative toward "our own" ... I never liked the Tito haters (Tho he could leave guys in too long sometimes). I was long into the season before I wanted BV gone. I cannot understand Farrell, who is supposedly a pitching bon vivant... why does he leave guys in soooooo long? I am fond of the Earl Weaver school of mound management ... get the guy outa there if he ain't got it!

[Bellhorn04]

You know me, Moon. I rarely state a negative toward "our own" ... I never liked the Tito haters (Tho he could leave guys in too long sometimes). I was long into the season before I wanted BV gone. I cannot understand Farrell, who is supposedly a pitching bon vivant... why does he leave guys in soooooo long? I am fond of the Earl Weaver school of mound management ... get the guy outa there if he ain't got it!

 

'Leaving the starter in too long' is a by-product of the modern game where starters only average 6 innings at best, and bullpens are left to cover a pile of innings. All managers do it because a) middle relievers are usually s*****; and if you use the quick hook every time you'll burn the living s*** out of your bullpen.

 

Tito was also accused of doing this far too often by many.

 

Last night Showalter didn't pull Tillman until the end of the 5th with his team losing 6-0. He let Tillman get the last out in the 5th after he'd given up 6 runs, so it could have been more.

 

I'm quite neutral about Farrell now. I feel a little bad for him because he seems to be trying everything with the pitching but the pitchers keep throwing up on themselves.

 

But if replacing him with Lovullo makes the team play better I'm all for it.

 

It's your call, Henry & Dombrowski.

[SoxnCycles]

'Leaving the starter in too long' is a by-product of the modern game where starters only average 6 innings at best, and bullpens are left to cover a pile of innings. All managers do it because a) middle relievers are usually s*****; and if you use the quick hook every time you'll burn the living s*** out of your bullpen.

 

Tito was also accused of doing this far too often by many.

 

Last night Showalter didn't pull Tillman until the end of the 5th with his team losing 6-0. He let Tillman get the last out in the 5th after he'd given up 6 runs, so it could have been more.

 

I'm quite neutral about Farrell now. I feel a little bad for him because he seems to be trying everything with the pitching but the pitchers keep throwing up on themselves.

But if replacing him with Lovullo makes the team play better I'm all for it.

 

It's your call, Henry & Dombrowski.

 

Nailed it.

[mvp 78]

He left Ross in to face Salty because he didn't want Salty hitting LH against Kelly. I think he left Wright and Ross in a batter too long, but I don't think it was an egregious error on his part. I think the ump was far more detrimental to the Sox than Farrell was.

 

With Wright, it's going to be really hard to manage as he just loses it so quickly. His lack of secondary pitches leave me dubious about his long term success.

[Kimmi]

He left Ross in to face Salty because he didn't want Salty hitting LH against Kelly. I think he left Wright and Ross in a batter too long, but I don't think it was an egregious error on his part. I think the ump was far more detrimental to the Sox than Farrell was.

 

With Wright, it's going to be really hard to manage as he just loses it so quickly. His lack of secondary pitches leave me dubious about his long term success.

 

I agree. It's difficult to manage the BP when your starter doesn't make it through 6 innings. The pen needs to be spared whenever possible. I think Farrell said that Barnes and Buchholz were not available. Farrell has to try to get the starter as deep as possible, within reason. If this were the postseason, that's a completely different story. In the regular season, his hands are somewhat tied by the starters not doing their job.

[mvp 78]

It'd be one thing if Wright had a secondary pitch to lean on to gut through a few hitters when his knuckler disappears, but Wright doesn't have one. The second he loses the touch on his knuckler, it becomes batting practice. The problem is that it just goes so suddenly. If he could wing it through a few batters to let the bullpen warmup, it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

 

I was worried that Wright's ERA would trend back to 4+ with the summer heat and natural regression. My only hope is that he provides enough to stick in the rotation for the rest of the year. If he craters out, the season is over for the Sox.

[mvp 78]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statsd.aspx?playerid=8185&position=P

 

His starts since the beginning of summer have been troubling to say the least.

[Maxbialystock]

It'd be one thing if Wright had a secondary pitch to lean on to gut through a few hitters when his knuckler disappears, but Wright doesn't have one. The second he loses the touch on his knuckler, it becomes batting practice. The problem is that it just goes so suddenly. If he could wing it through a few batters to let the bullpen warmup, it wouldn't be as much of an issue.

 

I was worried that Wright's ERA would trend back to 4+ with the summer heat and natural regression. My only hope is that he provides enough to stick in the rotation for the rest of the year. If he craters out, the season is over for the Sox.

 

He has a fastball (84-86 mph) and a big curve, but he can't hit the corners with them. Moreover, when the knuckler is missing, the opposing hitters, without exception, will sit on the fast ball, which only works when the knuckler is working.

[oldtimer]

Back to Farrell. The Detroit series has gone badly. They can hit and have decent pitching and quite good relief pitching. We got beat with a good effort by Pomeranz, we got beat when Wright got shelled (a winnable game with the better managing) and got beat yesterday when our pitching was pretty good but theirs was better. My thought is to use our best pitching resources to win the games where we have the best chance. No manager is going to make the right decision every time, but it is the indecisiveness handling his pitching (should be his strength) that worries me.

[illinoisredsox]

Back to Farrell. The Detroit series has gone badly. They can hit and have decent pitching and quite good relief pitching. We got beat with a good effort by Pomeranz, we got beat when Wright got shelled (a winnable game with the better managing) and got beat yesterday when our pitching was pretty good but theirs was better. My thought is to use our best pitching resources to win the games where we have the best chance. No manager is going to make the right decision every time, but it is the indecisiveness handling his pitching (should be his strength) that worries me.

 

It would help him a lot if he had some people in the pen he could rely on consistently. Right now, the whole pen is like Forrest Gump's box of chocolates, he never knows what he is going to get.

[cp176]

Anybody on the fire Farrell and promote Lovullo bandwagon, might want to rethink what you are going to get from Farrell's right hand man. Not pinch hitting for Hannigan late in the game yesterday with two better hitting lefties on the bench should tell you something.

[mvp 78]

Sox played better with Lovullo last year. Yesterday, they scored zero runs for Farrell and 5 for Lovullo.

[cp176]

Sox played better with Lovullo last year. Yesterday, they scored zero runs for Farrell and 5 for Lovullo.

 

That Lovullo is one hell of a hitter MVP. Glad he still likes Pedroia too. All kidding aside, I still think that they will need to go outside of the organization to replace him.

[Bellhorn04]

Anybody on the fire Farrell and promote Lovullo bandwagon, might want to rethink what you are going to get from Farrell's right hand man. Not pinch hitting for Hannigan late in the game yesterday with two better hitting lefties on the bench should tell you something.

 

It's incomprehensible why they didn't hit for Hanigan there.

[mvp 78]

That Lovullo is one hell of a hitter MVP. Glad he still likes Pedroia too. All kidding aside, I still think that they will need to go outside of the organization to replace him.

 

To me, the Sox are one of the premier organizations in MLB. They have enough money to overpay for the best manager out there. Even if Farrell is simply average, it's a position that can be upgraded.

[mvp 78]

It's incomprehensible why they didn't hit for Hanigan there.

 

Classic Lovullo rope-a-dope. Classic...

[Bellhorn04]

Classic Lovullo rope-a-dope. Classic...

 

Haha...

 

But seriously, what possible reason could there be for not pinch-hitting with Leon or Shaw. It boggles my mind. And there's no mention of it by any of our wonderful Sox reporters.

[mvp 78]

Haha...

 

But seriously, what possible reason could there be for not pinch-hitting with Leon or Shaw. It boggles my mind. And there's no mention of it by any of our wonderful Sox reporters.

 

Beat writers can't rock the boat!

 

Honestly, I saw more about them fretting over Wright coming in with long sleeves.

 

I don't get it. The writers are useless for the most part. Speier is great with the analytical stuff, but everyone else is basically garbage. Would it be better if Henry didn't buy the Globe?

[Spudboy]

Haha...

 

But seriously, what possible reason could there be for not pinch-hitting with Leon or Shaw. It boggles my mind. And there's no mention of it by any of our wonderful Sox reporters.

 

O'Brien said when it happened that "Surely there will be plenty of talk about this after the game."

 

But then the Sox won so the reporters pussy footed around it. If the Sox had lost it would have been open season on Farrell.