A Realistic View at 2016

[Kingface]

Do we even need Buch? Price, Porcello, Erod, Pom, Wright (Elias, Johnson, Owens, Kelly)......pretty sure we can find other ways to spend $13.5 on someone other than a 6th starter..... I am a HUGE advocate of having a solid veteran 6th starter which is why I REALLY wanted Hill to be resigned last season. But 13.5 for somebody like Buch is stupid.

[Emp9]

I still don't get your point. Either we pay Buch $13.5M next year, of he becomes a FA. At that point, he'll get what the highest bidder offers him or whatever deal he accepts. What is the $6.75M supposed to represent?

 

If you are talking about trading him now, he's probably owed about $3M.

 

 

I'm sure I already mentioned my point(s) about his possible value & other scenarios above.

[Nick]

Hey Moon..where do you see Bobby Dalbec playing? He's 6-4 with a gun, 3B....plenty of power. Pitched for Arizona. I see him moving through the system quickly.

[Emp9]

Hey Moon..where do you see Bobby Dalbec playing? He's 6-4 with a gun, 3B....plenty of power. Pitched for Arizona. I see him moving through the system quickly.

 

I saw him @Tri-City Aug. 1st. Got some video. He went 1-4 w/ 2rbi. I'm pretty sure he DH'd that game. His # was 44, now it's #37.

 

[Emp9]

Do we even need Buch? Price, Porcello, Erod, Pom, Wright (Elias, Johnson, Owens, Kelly)......pretty sure we can find other ways to spend $13.5 on someone other than a 6th starter..... I am a HUGE advocate of having a solid veteran 6th starter which is why I REALLY wanted Hill to be resigned last season. But 13.5 for somebody like Buch is stupid.

 

What do you think Hill will sign for this off-season?

[Nick]

So Shaw is already complaining about his playing time? Basically he's saying Aaron Hill sucks? Not smart for a young guy to air complaints in the papers.

[moonslav59]

I'm sure I already mentioned my point(s) about his possible value & other scenarios above.

 

What do you mean by "optimism" concerning his option? I really don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying that because some teams will surely offer Buch $6.5M on the FA market this winter (and I agree they will and more), we should consider giving him the $13.5M option over paying him the $500K buyout?

 

Here's what you said...

 

... what if a team could pick up Buchholz for no more than $6.5M on that FA list? How many teams would be interested you think? That's where I think we may have some room for optimism concerning Buch's option.

[moonslav59]

What do you think Hill will sign for this off-season?

 

Hopefully, with another team.

 

Maybe $ 5M/2?

[moonslav59]

So Shaw is already complaining about his playing time? Basically he's saying Aaron Hill sucks? Not smart for a young guy to air complaints in the papers.

 

He wants to play. That's good.

 

Complaining to the papers is rarely good.

[moonslav59]

Hey Moon..where do you see Bobby Dalbec playing? He's 6-4 with a gun, 3B....plenty of power. Pitched for Arizona. I see him moving through the system quickly.

 

I really have no idea where this guy ends up.

 

soxprospects.com has him listed as a 3Bman, but the say he his the mid 90's as a pitcher. Hard to tell. My guess is, they start him at 3B, and if he fails, they may take a second look at his pitching.

[Dojji]

Do we even need Buch? Price, Porcello, Erod, Pom, Wright (Elias, Johnson, Owens, Kelly)......pretty sure we can find other ways to spend $13.5 on someone other than a 6th starter..... I am a HUGE advocate of having a solid veteran 6th starter which is why I REALLY wanted Hill to be resigned last season. But 13.5 for somebody like Buch is stupid.

 

Even if we did have a hole in the rotation next year (say Pom needs TJ or something) I'd still rather fill that hole with someone other than Buchholz. It's not even just that he's bad, it's that you can't even count on him to be reliably bad. He is the most quixotic, unpredictable pitcher in baseball, exactly what you DON'T want in your rotation.

[Dojji]

So Shaw is already complaining about his playing time? Basically he's saying Aaron Hill sucks? Not smart for a young guy to air complaints in the papers.

 

I'd feel worse about Shaw's statement if he wasn't absolutely right. Shaw is losing playing time to an inferior player. Anyone would complain.

[oldtimer]

Changing thoughts. I mentioned in the last game we lost and it occurred again today. Balls hit down the line past first base have hurt us badly in both those games. Is our positioning wrong, do we react slowly or what? In any case, plays made in both games would have limited the damage and gotten pitchers out of tough spots. In both cases, our pitchers went from those plays to blow it. When Hanley is positioned to guard the line, he can make plays and did make a nice one later on in the game.

[Spudboy]

He wants to play. That's good.

 

Complaining to the papers is rarely good.

 

Yup. I like Shorer but he should keep his f***ing yapper closed with the exception of possibly speaking with Farrell behind a closed door.

 

Hit and you can play again.

[Dojji]

Changing thoughts. I mentioned in the last game we lost and it occurred again today. Balls hit down the line past first base have hurt us badly in both those games. Is our positioning wrong, do we react slowly or what? In any case, plays made in both games would have limited the damage and gotten pitchers out of tough spots. In both cases, our pitchers went from those plays to blow it. When Hanley is positioned to guard the line, he can make plays and did make a nice one later on in the game.

 

Hot shots down the line are usually a result of bad pitching, not bad defense.

[Emp9]

What do you mean by "optimism" concerning his option? I really don't get what you're trying to say. Are you saying that because some teams will surely offer Buch $6.5M on the FA market this winter (and I agree they will and more), we should consider giving him the $13.5M option over paying him the $500K buyout?

 

Here's what you said...

 

... what if a team could pick up Buchholz for no more than $6.5M on that FA list? How many teams would be interested you think? That's where I think we may have some room for optimism concerning Buch's option.

 

Considering the pitching market this off-season, if Buchholz pitches well from here on out (big if), there could be a possibility picking up his option then using him as a trade piece later next year. Even at his lowest point this season teams were still interested in him. We'll see how things unfold. I'm also fine with his buyout and we could use all the money on hand to start giving guys like Betts and XB contract extensions.

[Emp9]

Hopefully, with another team.

 

Maybe $ 5M/2?

 

Is that $5M or 10M total?

[oldtimer]

Hot shots down the line are usually a result of bad pitching, not bad defense.

 

Possibly bad positioning!

[Spudboy]

Possibly bad positioning!

 

Common sense.

[moonslav59]

Considering the pitching market this off-season, if Buchholz pitches well from here on out (big if), there could be a possibility picking up his option then using him as a trade piece later next year. Even at his lowest point this season teams were still interested in him. We'll see how things unfold. I'm also fine with his buyout and we could use all the money on hand to start giving guys like Betts and XB contract extensions.

 

I think the teams interested in Buch this year expected us to pay most of his remaining salary.

[moonslav59]

Is that $5M or 10M total?

 

$5M divided by 2, so $2.5M per year for 2 years.

 

I think he might make more, but I'd rather have a healthy Rutledge or Hernandez than Hill, and besides, Moncada is learning to play 3B these days.

 

We shouldn't need Hill.

[Dojji]

We need to end this sick infatuation with Buchholz' "potential." Seriously, I'm so sick of hearing about how well Buchholz might theoretically pitch and then watching him get shelled 2 out of every 3 starts -- and miss the other one.

[Bellhorn04]

$5M divided by 2, so $2.5M per year for 2 years.

 

I think he might make more, but I'd rather have a healthy Rutledge or Hernandez than Hill, and besides, Moncada is learning to play 3B these days.

 

We shouldn't need Hill.

 

I think the Hill in question was Rich Hill.

[mvp 78]

What did Shaw actually say?

[Dojji]

What did Shaw actually say?

“My swing feels great in the cage,” Shaw said. “I need some in-game reps. That’s the only way I can fix it. It’s hard to do that when you’re playing two or three days a week.”

 

“I don’t want to sound arrogant or cocky but I can add a lot to the lineup down the stretch if I were able to get hot like I was the first couple of month,” Shaw said, via Abraham. “At the time of the trade, I felt like I was hitting pretty well. They felt like they needed an improvement. I won’t say I was content, but I was pleased where I was at, then my playing time went down.”

 

Young player wants to play, and feels like he needs more playing time to get his feel at the plate down. Not exactly unreasonable. He's not throwing dirt on anyone, he just wants to play and thinks that if he played more he'd be able to hit better. Sounds like the media got a genuine comment or two out of the guy rather than PR fluff, and ran 20 miles with it like usual.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

Shaw started his tailspin before Hill showed up.

[Emp9]

I think the teams interested in Buch this year expected us to pay most of his remaining salary.

 

I realize that. I only mean that if he finishes strong... he could go from lower-bottom garbage to top-tier garbage.

 

I meant Rich Hill on the other. I think some team offers him at least a 2 year contract. He'll also have to finish strong (may start this Wed. for LA). Could we see a $24M/2yr contract for Rich Hill? too much? Too little?

[sk7326]

I realize that. I only mean that if he finishes strong... he could go from lower-bottom garbage to top-tier garbage.

 

I meant Rich Hill on the other. I think some team offers him at least a 2 year contract. He'll also have to finish strong (may start this Wed. for LA). Could we see a $24M/2yr contract for Rich Hill? too much? Too little?

 

I think the years are right - dollars might be higher. Teams not giving him a ton this past offseason made sense ... his performance in Boston was so aberrational, that you had to bet the under. But now, there is a reasonable history of him being a good starter. What prevents Hill from being a $20M pitcher is his not being able to (or not having demonstrated) churn out 180 IP

[sk7326]

A key stretch coming up now in the next 16 games. 3 at home against KC, who are solid ... and 13 against the Rays, A's and Padres, who are not. There is a chance to get some meaningful separation - at least in the WC chase. 3 out of 4 in DEtroit would have been fun, but they went 5-2 in a week head to head on the road against the teams that matter in the playoff chase.

[Bellhorn04]

Winning 3 of 4 in Tampa would be excellent. It certainly can't be taken for granted.