A Realistic View at 2016

[RIRSFan]

What is amazing about Benintendi is he is the rare college player who did not appear on radars until very recently. It is distinctly possible (I won't say likely) that Holt is keeping Benintendi or Moncada's seat warm in LF.

 

I agree with this and it seems Castillo may have reached his last chance to show THIS FO that he is willing and capable of learning how to adapt as they clearly want him to. If either he or Craig could have shown them more of their "upside" we wouldn't be looking at Brock Holt as our everyday LF-er. This was one of my regrets this past off season as they sat out a pretty good OF FA market while filling other pressing needs, but I understood it. Looking down the road a year or two we have every right to be really optimistic that one of the young studs will contribute in a big way and if JBJ continues to improve with the bat this will be an outstanding OF for years to come.

 

I am a big Brock Holt fan. I love his attitude and he is pretty solid everywhere they put him. He gives you consistent at bats and great base running, but he really deepens the roster because of his versatility and that is his best value to the team, IMO. (Now watch as goes on a tear...)

[User Name]

That is a particularly difficult question to address. I don't want to see any of them moved but I try to see where there current needs are and will be within a year or two and go from there. Moncada is a second baseman and until he starts playing another position, he won't be seeing Boston for a few years. Devers is a particularly talented young third baseman. We have one there right now although I still think that Shaw winds up at first quite possibly. Espinoza is a pitcher with what appears to be great potential but he is years away from Boston. I think that Benintendi is the closest of the bunch to being in Boston. I also think that the Sox need an outfield upgrade. He has a great chance of being in Fenway next year. I see Moncada as possibly a once in generation talent and Benintendi being close already. If a trade was made for a young talented pitcher I think that they could absorb the losses of both Espinoza and Devers. Might regret it later on but oh well. I also happen to think that they could get what they want in a trade without moving any of these 4.

 

This system is too weak in pitching depth with Kopech's idiocy to move Espinoza. You deal from positions of strength. In this case, position player pool.

[User Name]

if DD gets good returns for them I don't care if he trades all 4 of these prospects. Making trades to help the big league team is one of the legitimate uses of a large pool of prospects, and no worse for the franchise than any other way if handled competently. I trust DD to spend big but get big returns, that's his trademark. Ben was kind enough to stock the larder with a good reserve of talent on his way out, there's no sin in using that talent to put a team I'm convinced is a potential frontrunner, over the top.

 

Easy on the hyperbole, but the general point is correct.

[cp176]

In Salem.

 

We'll learn more when he's ready to hit the bigs. He's at least a year to a year and a half out at the moment, as are all the big 3. People hoping for more are expecting too much.

 

It isn't even a remote stretch to at least mention Benintendi as a possible candidate for our outfield next year.

[User Name]

Benintendi's a very polished college bat who may wind up being fast tracked. The other three aren't sniffing Boston most likely, but Moncada is a special kind of talent

[cp176]

This system is too weak in pitching depth with Kopech's idiocy to move Espinoza. You deal from positions of strength. In this case, position player pool.

 

Depends on the player or players you get in return. We all know about the system's pitching shortage. Like a I said, personally I would like to see them all kept. That being said, if trades were made for young players (of course including pitcher) of somewhat proven quality, I would understand it.

[cp176]

Where does Moncada play ?

 

If he continues to play like he has been - 2 things - he won't be in Salem much longer and he won't be playing second base.

[Dojji]

It isn't even a remote stretch to at least mention Benintendi as a possible candidate for our outfield next year.

 

Possible yes, but I think it's very likely that the Red Sox trade for an outfielder, and they have no plans of moving Betts or bradley anytime soon, so where does Benintendi fit into that? you don't rush a kid like that up just so he can compete for a job.

[User Name]

So who fills the LF void? Brock Holt is not the solution as an everyday LF.

[iortiz]

So who fills the LF void? Brock Holt is not the solution as an everyday LF.

 

If he plays everyday what will be his line IYO?

[User Name]

If he plays everyday what will be his line IYO?

 

Something around 260/320/370. Not starting corner OF production. He's great on shorter bursts all over the field though, especially when in a hot streak.

[cp176]

Possible yes, but I think it's very likely that the Red Sox trade for an outfielder, and they have no plans of moving Betts or bradley anytime soon, so where does Benintendi fit into that? you don't rush a kid like that up just so he can compete for a job.

 

You certainly don't want to rush a player of Benintendi's talent or even Moncada's but you also don't want to retard their growth by holding them back. I see Benintendi very possibly in left field soon. Next year? - maybe.

[User Name]

You certainly don't want to rush a player of Benintendi's talent or even Moncada's but you also don't want to retard their growth by holding them back. I see Benintendi very possibly in left field soon. Next year? - maybe.

 

Something the Red Sox organization has been guilty of many times in the past couple years.

[cp176]

Something around 260/320/370. Not starting corner OF production. He's great on shorter bursts all over the field though, especially when in a hot streak.

 

 

Brock Holt is one of the best utility players in the game today. That's it. Glad we got him but that's it. I wish that he was only used in the infield though.

[cp176]

Something the Red Sox organization has been guilty of many times in the past couple years.

 

 

it's what I wanted to say - AGREE

[iortiz]

Something around 260/320/370. Not starting corner OF production. He's great on shorter bursts all over the field though, especially when in a hot streak.

 

Well, considering that Castillo can't hit and Young is close to useless and JBJ isn't nothing spectacular with his bat -yet-, I think I would take that line any day of the week. IMO Holt could be 330+ OBP player.

[User Name]

What I'm saying is that I think Holt's keeping the seat warm for Benintendi. It's not a knock on him.

[Youk Of The Nation]

I love Brock Holt, not least of all because his name sounds like an 80's action hero or the protagonist from a spy thriller novel, but I'm a little wary of him. He's been great for the Sox, but so was Daniel Nava in the beginning. There are a few parallels, despite Holt having superior skills to Nava's in most areas. Both guys were never seriously looked at in the minors as potential starters, both guys were brought in to fill spots and produce as well as they could, and both guys soared above and beyond all expectations. Nava turned into a pumpkin, eventually, after a great 2013. Will Holt? Only time will tell, but as much as I love the guy, I'm not counting on him producing at the level he did in 2015 and has in early 2016 indefinitely.

[moonslav59]

Let's see if Holt unravels as the season progresses as he has the past couple years.

[Kingface]

Let's see if Holt unravels as the season progresses as he has the past couple years.

 

Agreed Moon. We have ALWAYS agreed on the thing about Holt.....STRIKE WHEN THE IRON IS HOT!!!!! We could have gotten something GOOD for him last trading deadline. Holt ALWAYS hits a wall in late June....... Holt was a throw in in the Hanrahan trade. If we could have gotten a BP arm or a solid pitching prospect....OR he could have been in a bigger package for a TOR starter....WHY NOT DO THAT?!?!?!?!

[User Name]

You know, we don't have to trade everyone just because we can. Holt is more valuable to the Red Sox than what they'd get back in a package. Even worse, they really need him. He's occupying a regular spot in LF, and he's the only guy who can currently spell XB. Marrero couldn't hit his way out of a party with all of Chris Brown's ex girlfriends.

[Dojji]

Agreed Moon. We have ALWAYS agreed on the thing about Holt.....STRIKE WHEN THE IRON IS HOT!!!!! We could have gotten something GOOD for him last trading deadline. Holt ALWAYS hits a wall in late June....... Holt was a throw in in the Hanrahan trade. If we could have gotten a BP arm or a solid pitching prospect....OR he could have been in a bigger package for a TOR starter....WHY NOT DO THAT?!?!?!?!

 

because what Holt does is criminally underappreciated on the trade market.

 

you can get any AAAA guy to do what Holt does, the trick is that none of them will do it as well as Holt year in and year out. Holt provides 2 WAR off the bench, that's true of very very few full time benchies. And he's shown that he's more than good enough to start for weeks at a time in any of 5 different positions and good enough to back up 2 more (the latter 2 being SS and CF) but he's not quite a true starter with advantages on both sides of the baseball if he's playing anywhere but 2B, so teams make offers for him like he's a bogstandard second baseman. Which he's a really good 2B player, any team with a hole at second ought to be interested, but they're unlikely to pay a premium IMHO.

 

Besides, as UN mentioned, we need him. Holt is almost unique, the only guy close to his combination of of versatility and above replacement level offense is Ben Zobrist. You can't find what this guy does just anywhere, I'd be very reluctant to send him off anywhere until we can't control him anymore.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Dojji

[Kingface]

You know, we don't have to trade everyone just because we can. Holt is more valuable to the Red Sox than what they'd get back in a package. Even worse, they really need him. He's occupying a regular spot in LF, and he's the only guy who can currently spell XB. Marrero couldn't hit his way out of a party with all of Chris Brown's ex girlfriends.

 

Understood.......I was talking about last year when we NEEDED some pieces for THIS year. Holt is a backup player.....borderline starter. That we can all agree on. He was an AS last year.......we needed SP and BP help. Bench players are a dime a dozen. SUre they may not perform as well as Holt....but they are still a bench player. If we could have packaged Holt (when his stock was high) with other Minor League talent for a REAL #2 pitcher.......why wouldn't you have done that???? Teams WERE looking at Holt at the deadline last year (google it). Something could have gone down.......when would have been better than Buch as our #2.....

[Kingface]

because what Holt does is criminally underappreciated on the trade market.

 

you can get any AAAA guy to do what Holt does, the trick is that none of them will do it as well as Holt year in and year out. Holt provides 2 WAR off the bench, that's true of very very few full time benchies. And he's shown that he's more than good enough to start for weeks at a time in any of 5 different positions and good enough to back up 2 more (the latter 2 being SS and CF) but he's not quite a true starter with advantages on both sides of the baseball if he's playing anywhere but 2B, so teams make offers for him like he's a bogstandard second baseman. Which he's a really good 2B player, any team with a hole at second ought to be interested, but they're unlikely to pay a premium IMHO.

 

Besides, as UN mentioned, we need him. Holt is almost unique, the only guy close to his combination of of versatility and above replacement level offense is Ben Zobrist. You can't find what this guy does just anywhere, I'd be very reluctant to send him off anywhere until we can't control him anymore.

 

Last year H9lts value was at an alltime high.....so was Devers. If we could have gotten a #2 pitcher for Hlt and Devers....plus a lower prospect for a REAL #2.....would you have done it????

[Dojji]

No no no, Kingface, "bench player" and "inferior player" may go hand in glove, but that's only because so many front offices are cheap. There's no law that says that you have to employ crap on your ench, There's nothing criminal about having a good bench and liking it. We have one of the richest teams in baseball, we can afford to keep 2 WAR players on the bench.

 

We got the SP and BP help we needed in the offseason and I really doubt that trading Holt was the key to getting any more of either.

[Dojji]

Last year H9lts value was at an alltime high.....so was Devers. If we could have gotten a #2 pitcher for Hlt and Devers....plus a lower prospect for a REAL #2.....would you have done it????

 

Holt was not at an all time high last year. I think he's just going to be at about that level consistently while playing 4-5 different positions in a given season while hitting enough. Trading an uniquely irreplaceable player for face value, even if that value is high, is pretty foolish in my honest opinion.

[User Name]

Understood.......I was talking about last year when we NEEDED some pieces for THIS year. Holt is a backup player.....borderline starter. That we can all agree on. He was an AS last year.......we needed SP and BP help. Bench players are a dime a dozen. SUre they may not perform as well as Holt....but they are still a bench player. If we could have packaged Holt (when his stock was high) with other Minor League talent for a REAL #2 pitcher.......why wouldn't you have done that???? Teams WERE looking at Holt at the deadline last year (google it). Something could have gone down.......when would have been better than Buch as our #2.....

 

If you know Holt is a borderline starter, what makes you think other teams don't see him the same way, and offered the Red Sox lower value than what they think he's worth? Other teams' front offices are not stupid.

[iortiz]

If you know Holt is a borderline starter, what makes you think other teams don't see him the same way, and offered the Red Sox lower value than what they think he's worth? Other teams' front offices are not stupid.

 

Well, that's debatable LOL!. Don't go so far, look what our FO have made in the last 2 years.

[User Name]

Well, that's debatable LOL!. Don't go so far, look what our FO have made in the last 2 years.

 

You're pretty good at exaggeration. We get it, you don't like the FO.

[iortiz]

You're pretty good at exaggeration. We get it, you don't like the FO.

Actually I like the current one.

 

I'm messing around with u man, cause I know you don't like when somebody talks bad things about Cherington.