2016 Prospects Thread

[Slasher9]

But we keep reminding you about Pedey. With one or two exceptions,the BDC people rarely take a stance that doesn't have a bunch of conditions, so it is hard for me to take them seriously when they pay themselves on the back. Boxmal is one of the few that has the cajones to put his opinions on the line without condition.

 

so here we are with the BDC vs us mentality again? i thought youk put an end to that. i see alot of "opinions" being put out there on this fourm. by all talksox posters - whether they have been here 10 years or 10 minutes. it is your opinion that only "real talksox" members post their opinion unconditionally?

[Slasher9]

Yup, credit where credit is due.

 

16k+ posts. how many have been insults to other posters? how many have been to take an opposing side just because? how many have been independent thoughts on the red sox without trying to be a richard?

my guess would be: high %, high %, low %.....

[moonslav59]

It wasn't an issue about being right or wrong it was an issue about player development. You didn't understand why a guy who was far off from the majors and in A/AA ball shouldn't move positions and we were telling you what teams do and why they do it. MLB teams still do that and will continue to do so, nothing has changed. I still don't understand where the argument is here. You're not just disagreeing with us but you're disagreeing with just about every MLB teams philosophy on player development. When we gave you an explanation of why things are that why you rejected it.

 

Once again, you guys keep getting my position wrong and then add on this condescending crap about me "not understanding". Just because someone disagrees, does not mean they don't understand the other position or the reasons for the other position. I totally understand what traditional protocol is for rising prospects. I never claimed there are not very sound reasons why there is such a protocol for just about every player on the rise in minor league baseball. I never claimed I was the first to think Moncada was something special. The experts were saying that long ago.

 

Moncada is a freak. It doesn't matter when each of us realized it, and I don't pretend, nor have I ever, to know it before most. I do think it's comical that the clown just realized it last week, and he chastises others for believing it earlier than he. I wasn't being a braggart; I was reacting to a clown calling me "silly" after the fact.

 

It wasn't some sort of mystical process to think that a player can rise above protocol. It's been done before in MLB- not often, but it has. Moncad's unique situation of being so damn talented and not really having a true position to begin with, made his situation outside the box to begin with.

 

I wasn't even calling for an immediate position shift. I suggested he be given extra practice at 3B "sooner rather than later". My position was never couched as "These guys are dummies for not doing this right now" as the clown implies I was saying, nor was I linking this to the Beni call-up now decision that I wasn't even a part of, as the clown again says I was part of.

 

Also Moncada is a freak, we've known this for a while. But plenty of "freaks of nature" never hit their way out of A ball. Moncada is a freak who is performing and there is zero way of knowing a guy will perform until he is there doing it. Nobody had a crystal ball a month ago and nobody every will.

 

That's exactly what I said, and my position was to get ourselves prepared so we don't end up like we did with Bogey playing in a playoff chase and World Series after just 10 games at 3B in AAA. I stated we may have gotten lucky then, but this time we may not. That was my reasoning for the "sooner rather than later" part of my position. Just because my opinion flies against standard protocol, does not mean I don't understand it, or want every good looking prospect to rise above normal timeline guidelines. Moncada is a freak. He was basically a player who played several positions in Cuba. Sox management thought 2B was his most comfortable or skilled position, and I don't claim they were wrong. I jsut simply wanted Moncada to begin getting ready for 3B sooner. It wasn't the earth-shattering suggestion you guys made it out to be, and when Sox management did start giving him reps at 3B within 3-4 weeks after I suggested it, I didn't expect to still be called "silly" and "wrong". I'm sure the Sox were thinking about giving him reps at 3B long before I even made that post.

 

It's futile to say anyone predicted a guy would turn into a guy because all things considered there are only two main permutations. A guy is a guy....or a guy can't hit at the next level.

 

I never predicted anything. I stated my position that I felt Moncada was very close to ML ready with his bat. I could be way wrong on that, but it's my position based on statements made by scouts and "experts". I felt that if he was so close to MLB ready offensively, it was getting close to the time when he could start taking reps at 3B- not a sudden shift, but just taking reps during or after normal practice hours. You'd think I suggested we convert him to a pitcher and start him in a MLB game the next day. Man, you guys really go way off on mere suggestions for some minor thing to do in practice "sooner rather than later".

 

I think it was you guys who acted "silly".

[Spudboy]

Willy Mo Pena was a freak.

[Spudboy]

The best thing to do now is to drop talk of what could or should have been with regard to Espinoza. It's a done deal. Pom Pom is here now. Hopefully he develops into a decent mid-rotation starter.

 

Also, speculation about a current prospect is just that. Moncada is from most reports an exceptional talent. One with about 1 year of pro ball in this country. As with many of the Cuban imports, it is safe to assume that he needs to work on some things to become ready for a diet of MLB ball. When he is ready for prime time the Sox will make the move.

 

Benintendi has had major league skills since Arkansas. He reinforced this idea by being consistent in his approach at all levels. The Sox had a need for his skills and he was called up.

 

I see no reason to get into cat fights over any of these matters. It serves little purpose other than to bore us.

[moonslav59]

willy mo pena was a freak.

 

lol!

[Kimmi]

Very true, but some of us don't continue calling others "silly" and ridicules for expressing ideas that ended up coming true. Some of us don't construct strawmen to beat up in order to look smarter than everyone else.

 

Everyone who is a regular poster is knowledgeable, otherwise they wouldn't be posting regularly. Everyone here is right sometimes and wrong other times. A lot of what we post is pure speculation, opinion, and guess work. None of us, regardless of how smart we think we are, knows more than management.

 

My point is that I don't see the need for:

 

1. "I told you so" or chest thumping in its many variations.

2. Insulting another poster whose opinion differs from yours.

3. Calling out another poster when that other poster is wrong.

 

This post is not directed at you Moon, or anyone in particular. We are all guilty of these things to some extent or another - it's human nature. But really, nothing is served by it.

 

A final thought, again directed at no one in particular: Being able to admit that you were wrong is a strength, not a weakness.

[Kimmi]

Willy Mo Pena was a freak.

 

LOL I still haven't forgiven Theo for that one, and as you know, I am Theo's #1 fan.

[a700hitter]

Pretty much every poster here is a very knowledgeable baseball fan. IMO, anyone who enjoys and follows baseball enough to be a regular poster on a baseball forum knows baseball pretty darn well and knows what they're talking about. We've all been right and we've all been wrong.

Very true. I have been wrong occasionally. My accuracy is 99.5%. And that's not bragging.;)p

[a700hitter]

so here we are with the BDC vs us mentality again? i thought youk put an end to that. i see alot of "opinions" being put out there on this fourm. by all talksox posters - whether they have been here 10 years or 10 minutes. it is your opinion that only "real talksox" members post their opinion unconditionally?

This is BS.

[Kimmi]

Very true. I have been wrong occasionally. My accuracy is 9.95%. And that's not bragging.;)p

 

I believe you misplaced the decimal point. I fixed it for you.

[a700hitter]

I believe you misplaced the decimal point. I fixed it for you.

And this is why the statistics that you post to support your posts have to be taken with a grain of salt.

[Spudboy]

LOL I still haven't forgiven Theo for that one, and as you know, I am Theo's #1 fan.

 

I think white people in Dreds look really stupid.

 

Other than that, I would have kept Arroyo.

[a700hitter]

I think white people in Dreds look really stupid.

 

Other than that, I would have kept Arroyo.

He was also a musician. They march to their own drummers.

[Hugh2]

It wasn't an issue about being right or wrong it was an issue about player development. You didn't understand why a guy who was far off from the majors and in A/AA ball shouldn't move positions and we were telling you what teams do and why they do it. MLB teams still do that and will continue to do so, nothing has changed. I still don't understand where the argument is here. You're not just disagreeing with us but you're disagreeing with just about every MLB teams philosophy on player development. When we gave you an explanation of why things are that why you rejected it.

 

Once again, you guys keep getting my position wrong and then add on this condescending crap about me "not understanding". Just because someone disagrees, does not mean they don't understand the other position or the reasons for the other position. I totally understand what traditional protocol is for rising prospects. I never claimed there are not very sound reasons why there is such a protocol for just about every player on the rise in minor league baseball. I never claimed I was the first to think Moncada was something special. The experts were saying that long ago.

 

Moncada is a freak. It doesn't matter when each of us realized it, and I don't pretend, nor have I ever, to know it before most. I do think it's comical that the clown just realized it last week, and he chastises others for believing it earlier than he. I wasn't being a braggart; I was reacting to a clown calling me "silly" after the fact.

 

It wasn't some sort of mystical process to think that a player can rise above protocol. It's been done before in MLB- not often, but it has. Moncad's unique situation of being so damn talented and not really having a true position to begin with, made his situation outside the box to begin with.

 

I wasn't even calling for an immediate position shift. I suggested he be given extra practice at 3B "sooner rather than later". My position was never couched as "These guys are dummies for not doing this right now" as the clown implies I was saying, nor was I linking this to the Beni call-up now decision that I wasn't even a part of, as the clown again says I was part of.

 

Also Moncada is a freak, we've known this for a while. But plenty of "freaks of nature" never hit their way out of A ball. Moncada is a freak who is performing and there is zero way of knowing a guy will perform until he is there doing it. Nobody had a crystal ball a month ago and nobody every will.

 

That's exactly what I said, and my position was to get ourselves prepared so we don't end up like we did with Bogey playing in a playoff chase and World Series after just 10 games at 3B in AAA. I stated we may have gotten lucky then, but this time we may not. That was my reasoning for the "sooner rather than later" part of my position. Just because my opinion flies against standard protocol, does not mean I don't understand it, or want every good looking prospect to rise above normal timeline guidelines. Moncada is a freak. He was basically a player who played several positions in Cuba. Sox management thought 2B was his most comfortable or skilled position, and I don't claim they were wrong. I jsut simply wanted Moncada to begin getting ready for 3B sooner. It wasn't the earth-shattering suggestion you guys made it out to be, and when Sox management did start giving him reps at 3B within 3-4 weeks after I suggested it, I didn't expect to still be called "silly" and "wrong". I'm sure the Sox were thinking about giving him reps at 3B long before I even made that post.

 

It's futile to say anyone predicted a guy would turn into a guy because all things considered there are only two main permutations. A guy is a guy....or a guy can't hit at the next level.

 

I never predicted anything. I stated my position that I felt Moncada was very close to ML ready with his bat. I could be way wrong on that, but it's my position based on statements made by scouts and "experts". I felt that if he was so close to MLB ready offensively, it was getting close to the time when he could start taking reps at 3B- not a sudden shift, but just taking reps during or after normal practice hours. You'd think I suggested we convert him to a pitcher and start him in a MLB game the next day. Man, you guys really go way off on mere suggestions for some minor thing to do in practice "sooner rather than later".

 

I think it was you guys who acted "silly".

 

You kept on reiterating that Moncada should be moved to 3B. At this time I believe he was still in A ball or at least just out of A ball. No one can decipher how MLB close a guy is right out of A ball, even if he is mashing it in AA for a week. But again, you develop a player where he fits best NOT where he fits best on the team. You can re-evaluate that process later when he is ready or maybe close to ready as they did with guys like Andrew Benintendi, Xander Bogaerts and Mookie Betts. That's the way it is and always will be, and at the time it was being suggested when Moncada was (I believe) still in A ball.

 

There is no argument to be said on the issue now even in hindsight just because it happened. Mostly anyone could have predicted Moncada would eventually move off of 2nd base with 3RD being a likely destination, the question was WHEN it would happen. Teams don't have a schedule when a guy is going to move.

 

If Moncada is the future 3B does that make Devers the future 1B??? should they switch him now? he's been killing it in A ball for about as long as Moncada did at this point so why not? No we won't do that, we will continue to let him play at 3B and if there is no opening there in 1-2 years or he isnt' used in a trade but looks like a good slugging MLB player they will switch him to 1B. That's a very likely scenario on this team, if Devers and Moncada both have a future on this team there is a strong possibility that he moves to 1B but the team isn't going to develop him there because that is not how player development works. But they aren't going to do that why he is still developing.....just like they kept Moncada at 2nd while he was still coming up through the ranks.

[Spudboy]

He was also a musician. They march to their own drummers.

 

I really liked Arroyo for many reasons. I was happy when they extended him. Until they traded him almost instantly!

 

A quality number 4 starter is worth more than a big guy with a bat that can not play or make regular contact. Dumb move.

[User Name]

16k+ posts. how many have been insults to other posters? how many have been to take an opposing side just because? how many have been independent thoughts on the red sox without trying to be a richard?

my guess would be: high %, high %, low %.....

 

Bro, you know me about as well as you know your way around a woman's privates.

[User Name]

You kept on reiterating that Moncada should be moved to 3B. At this time I believe he was still in A ball or at least just out of A ball. No one can decipher how MLB close a guy is right out of A ball, even if he is mashing it in AA for a week. But again, you develop a player where he fits best NOT where he fits best on the team. You can re-evaluate that process later when he is ready or maybe close to ready as they did with guys like Andrew Benintendi, Xander Bogaerts and Mookie Betts. That's the way it is and always will be, and at the time it was being suggested when Moncada was (I believe) still in A ball.

 

There is no argument to be said on the issue now even in hindsight just because it happened. Mostly anyone could have predicted Moncada would eventually move off of 2nd base with 3RD being a likely destination, the question was WHEN it would happen. Teams don't have a schedule when a guy is going to move.

 

If Moncada is the future 3B does that make Devers the future 1B??? should they switch him now? he's been killing it in A ball for about as long as Moncada did at this point so why not? No we won't do that, we will continue to let him play at 3B and if there is no opening there in 1-2 years or he isnt' used in a trade but looks like a good slugging MLB player they will switch him to 1B. That's a very likely scenario on this team, if Devers and Moncada both have a future on this team there is a strong possibility that he moves to 1B but the team isn't going to develop him there because that is not how player development works. But they aren't going to do that why he is still developing.....just like they kept Moncada at 2nd while he was still coming up through the ranks.

 

Wisdom here.

[moonslav59]

You kept on reiterating that Moncada should be moved to 3B. At this time I believe he was still in A ball or at least just out of A ball. No one can decipher how MLB close a guy is right out of A ball, even if he is mashing it in AA for a week. But again, you develop a player where he fits best NOT where he fits best on the team. You can re-evaluate that process later when he is ready or maybe close to ready as they did with guys like Andrew Benintendi, Xander Bogaerts and Mookie Betts. That's the way it is and always will be, and at the time it was being suggested when Moncada was (I believe) still in A ball.

 

There is no argument to be said on the issue now even in hindsight just because it happened. Mostly anyone could have predicted Moncada would eventually move off of 2nd base with 3RD being a likely destination, the question was WHEN it would happen. Teams don't have a schedule when a guy is going to move.

 

If Moncada is the future 3B does that make Devers the future 1B??? should they switch him now? he's been killing it in A ball for about as long as Moncada did at this point so why not? No we won't do that, we will continue to let him play at 3B and if there is no opening there in 1-2 years or he isnt' used in a trade but looks like a good slugging MLB player they will switch him to 1B. That's a very likely scenario on this team, if Devers and Moncada both have a future on this team there is a strong possibility that he moves to 1B but the team isn't going to develop him there because that is not how player development works. But they aren't going to do that why he is still developing.....just like they kept Moncada at 2nd while he was still coming up through the ranks.

 

For the last time, my position was for the team to start giving reps at 3B during or after practice to Moncada " sooner rather than later".

 

I never said "move him", but I guess if you guys keep repeating it to yourselves, it becomes fact.

 

Secondly, while I and many felt that 3B was his probable landing spot eventually from his days in single-A, I don't recall ever suggesting he be moved or moved quickly while there. I believe I first suggested he start taking reps at 3B (NOT BE MOVED!) "sooner rather than later" (which is very vague) 2-3 weeks before it actually happened, so maybe it was 3-5 weeks ago. I think Moncada was called up in mid June, so he was probably already in AA for about a month before I suggested we give him reps at some point in the near future. So, I was essentially saying he should start taking reps about 2 months after being promoted to AA.

 

I knew this went against normal protocol. I never argued it was a common practice. I knew the timeline I suggested was even quicker than other past phenoms. I knew that most phenoms that make it to MLB very quickly rarely change positions, but as it turns out, Moncada's situation was unique in that he never really had a set position in Cuba. I had heard he was struggling to learn 2B, but others said he was doing fine. I was worried we might spend 1-2 years waiting for him to master 2B (if he ever did), before deciding on moving him. I was never for abruptly changing his position on a dime. All I said was that at some point in the near future (this was maybe a month ago), he should take extra practice to get some reps at 3B. My God, it was like I was suggesting a mountain be moved. Most baseball players have fooled around at other positions, shagged fly balls as IF'er or pitchers, or taken reps at various positions. Their baseball players, for God's sake. Moncada is so young, he's not that far removed from little league-type situations where players often move around.

 

I'm getting tired of my position being misrepresented. It wasn't a silly idea, whether you agree or not. I wouldn't have called it silly had they kept Moncada at 2B to the end of the year as yoiu almost all insisted should and would happen.

 

On Devers, please stop this nonsense. I don't even know if Moncada will ever become a capable defensive 3Bman. I caught grief for suggesting he may start at DH until he does master a position or at least become good enough to be decent. Of course, I would not move Devers at least until after we know we have found a real 3Bman. Plus, I haven't given up on Shaw at 3B either, but I fear he may end up a platoon corner IF'er. Devers has also showed that he takes time to adjust to new challenges, so I do not see him as the fats riser Moncada and Beni looked to be. It's just speculation on my part on Devers, just like it was on Moncada and Beni. I never pretend to know more than Sox management, and on beni, my position was to toally leave it up to SDox management, but to call him up "the second they felt he was ready". I have suggested I prefer to trade Devers in a large package for an ace due in part to future possibilities of blockage, but I'm not even close to suggesting he start taking reps at 1B.

[Slasher9]

I think white people in Dreds look really stupid.

 

Other than that, I would have kept Arroyo.

 

he's latino.

[a700hitter]

But he is white.

[jacksonianmarch]

Thinking about Moncada at 3rd isn't crazy. Heck, the O's moved Machado to get him up quicker. Right now, you have a sinking ship at 3b. Shaw's second half stats are abysmal. .190/.268/.392. And that comes on the heels of a June where he hit .214. If the kid comes up and shits the bed, he cant be worse than the garbage you are getting from there currently. And you can always send him back down. Moncada is doing in AA what you want to see. Good AB's, more power, high OBP and OPS

[Spudboy]

he's latino.

 

lol

[mvp 78]

But he is white.

 

Being white and latino are not mutually exclusive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans

[mvp 78]

He also didn't have dreadlocks. He had braids. They are completely different.

[User Name]

Arroyo had cornrows.

[a700hitter]

Being white and latino are not mutually exclusive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans

Yep, I know that. But are we allowed to say that?

[mvp 78]

Did he have cornrows? I don't remember seeing him with his hat off.

[mvp 78]

https://9hop.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/arroyo.jpg

 

As usual, UN is correct.

[Spudboy]

Being white and latino are not mutually exclusive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans

 

Yeah cornrows. But I wanted to type Dreds cause it's bad-ass.