2016 Prospects Thread

[Hugh2]

I did not say that what you posted was inaccurate. I am accepting that you are accurate. I am just asking you if the technique seems right to you. To me it looks like the contracts are out and out lies.

 

 

It's a blatant bending of the rules so in the spirit of following the rules yes. But in my opinion a team should be able to sign any player for any amount with little restrictions from MLB baseball. This would be like the gov't telling me how much I can spend on hiring people to run my company, this all stems from MLB trying favor and pump up the smaller markets, even though the bigger markets are the one making the money (hence bigger market)

 

I don't think that's relevant though. If the MLB wanted to clarify the rules then they should have done just that or change them. They didn't have to drop the hammer. Now if it comes out in the following days that the Red Sox were specifically warned against such contracts then I'll change my opinion.

[Hugh2]

Then the Red Sox should challenge the ruling. If what you say is a fact, and arbitrator would reverse the finding. This is business. They are not in this business to make friends.

 

No you're not, but it's also not good business to piss off a lot of people in your industry. I'm a proud and successful business owner and there is a big difference between being competitive and trying to make a profit and then blatantly stepping on someone elses shoes and throwing them under the bus.

[Emp9]

I want to ask the Cardinals if the Astros did this too.

[Hugh2]

I want to ask the Cardinals if the Astros did this too.

 

Post of the day.

[a700hitter]

It's a blatant bending of the rules so in the spirit of following the rules yes. But in my opinion a team should be able to sign any player for any amount with little restrictions from MLB baseball. This would be like the gov't telling me how much I can spend on hiring people to run my company, this all stems from MLB trying favor and pump up the smaller markets, even though the bigger markets are the one making the money (hence bigger market)

 

I don't think that's relevant though. If the MLB wanted to clarify the rules then they should have done just that or change them. They didn't have to drop the hammer. Now if it comes out in the following days that the Red Sox were specifically warned against such contracts then I'll change my opinion.

I agree with the spirit of your post. MLB just screwed those kids. A warning or clarification should have been issued first. MLB acted heavy handed, but on the other hand, Red Sox management left themselves wide open on this. The practice was patently deceptive, and they got burned big time, and probably deservedly so. The kids were the innocent pawns here.

[a700hitter]

No you're not, but it's also not good business to piss off a lot of people in your industry. I'm a proud and successful business owner and there is a big difference between being competitive and trying to make a profit and then blatantly stepping on someone elses shoes and throwing them under the bus.

I agree that the Red Sox should not tell MLB to investigate other teams. That is bad business. However, if this is a common practice as the insiders say, no investigation should be necessary. It should be a matter of public record. It would not be the same as ratting on someone else.

[Bellhorn04]

Sounds to me like there will be plenty more to read about this in the days ahead.

[Spudboy]

I want to ask the Cardinals if the Astros did this too.

 

Hahahahahahahaha!!1!!1

[User Name]

I agree with the spirit of your post. MLB just screwed those kids. A warning or clarification should have been issued first. MLB acted heavy handed, but on the other hand, Red Sox management left themselves wide open on this. The practice was patently deceptive, and they got burned big time, and probably deservedly so. The kids were the innocent pawns here.

 

They deserved it. When news first broke talent evaluators immediately pointed out how blatant the Sox' bending of the rules was.

[a700hitter]

They deserved it. When news first broke talent evaluators immediately pointed out how blatant the Sox' bending of the rules was.

Really, how was this supposed to work where they didn't think it would look like lying and deception. Oh, player A you are a stud and we really want you, but we can't give you more than $300, so we are going to give players X,Y,Z $300k each and they will kick back $200k apiece to you player A so you will get $900 k. Is that how it was supposed to work?

[User Name]

Really, how was this supposed to work where they didn't think it would look like lying and deception. Oh, player A you are a stud and we really want you, but we can't give you more than $300, so we are going to give players X,Y,Z $300k each and they will kick back $200k apiece to you player A so you will get $900 k. Is that how it was supposed to work?

 

Pretty much. But they did this with reckless abandon, and even signed crappy players to bigger bonuses to entice their trainers to do future business. Shady stuff.

[a700hitter]

Pretty much. But they did this with reckless abandon, and even signed crappy players to bigger bonuses to entice their trainers to do future business. Shady stuff.

They don't have a leg to stand on. It looks almost like they engaged in a conspiracy as well as a potential tax fraud. I am no DR tax expert, but to carry out a scheme like this would require a lot of reporting and double taxing of the money above the $300k filtered to Player A. Did the Red Sox put the agents in charge of doling out the money. If so, I could see the following plausible scenario, the agent gives the crappy guys $10 k and tells them were lucky to get that, the agent pockets $50k for his services and the other $240 k found its way to the stud player. Do you think it went like that?

[User Name]

They don't have a leg to stand on. It looks almost like they engaged in a conspiracy as well as a potential tax fraud. I am no DR tax expert, but to carry out a scheme like this would require a lot of reporting and double taxing of the money above the $300k filtered to Player A. Did the Red Sox put the agents in charge of doling out the money. If so, I could see the following plausible scenario, the agent gives the crappy guys $10 k and tells them were lucky to get that, the agent pockets $50k for his services and the other $240 k found its way to the stud player. Do you think it went like that?

 

The "trainers" get a flat percentage cut that's unchanging. If the Sox spent 900 K on his players, regardless of the actual allocation, his earnings do not fluctuate. He engages in the practice because of future benefits (i.e, the team signing players that may go unsigned), and overall strength of the business relationship (pleasing a team that guarantees him future paychecks). Most teams that have a dedicated academy here (The D-Backs immediately jump to mind) heavily engage in this business practice. But they're not doing this s*** in the open. Someone with ties to the baseball world theorized to me that the Sox got caught because they got sloppy in their handling of these negotiations when the change in the cusp of baseball operations was imminent. That may have played a factor in their recklessness. Per his recollection, The Sox/Ben/DD change/power struggle was quite a saga, and it was pretty messy. Stuff the fans aren't privy to, he said.

[a700hitter]

The "trainers" get a flat percentage cut that's unchanging. If the Sox spent 900 K on his players, regardless of the actual allocation, his earnings do not fluctuate. He engages in the practice because of future benefits (i.e, the team signing players that may go unsigned), and overall strength of the business relationship (pleasing a team that guarantees him future paychecks). Most teams that have a dedicated academy here (The D-Backs immediately jump to mind) heavily engage in this business practice. But they're not doing this s*** in the open. Someone with ties to the baseball world theorized to me that the Sox got caught because they got sloppy in their handling of these negotiations when the change in the cusp of baseball operations was imminent. That may have played a factor in their recklessness. Per his recollection, The Sox/Ben/DD change/power struggle was quite a saga, and it was pretty messy. Stuff the fans aren't privy to, he said.

I had read about some of the shaddy stuff last year. I can't remember where I read it. It might have been here on TalkSox. It sounds like some real under the table stuff was going on and the Red Sox were hiding behind some technicality that they were staying to the $300k limit when they knew and were encouraging what went on behind the scenes. Essentially, they were part of a conspiracy. They were lucky that they didn't get slapped harder.

[moonslav59]

New topic:

 

soxprospects.com has come out with their summer rankings.

 

Top 20 prospects only

 

Here are the biggest gainers (in ranking number):

+20 Ockimey (37>17)

+16 Luis Aj. Basabe (34>18)

+13 R Raudes (33>20)

+3 Chavis (11>8)

+2 Benintendi (4>2)

+2 Hernandez (12>10)

+2 K Martin (21>19)

+1 S Travis (7>6)

+1 Lakins (10>9)

+1 Dubon (13>12)

+1 Light (15>14)

+1 T Ball (16>15)

 

Here are the biggest decliners:

-22 C Acosta (18>40)

-21 Jerez (17>38)

-13 Marrero (9>22)

-4 L Ysla (19>23)

-4 Y Pimental (20>24)

-3 Luis Ax. Basabe (8>11)

-2 Devers (2>4)

-2 Longhi (14>16)

-1 Johnson (6>7)

 

Non top 20 big swings:

 

-27 W Rijo (22>49)

-15 N Ramirez (28>43)

-14 A Rei (25>39)

-11 Stankiewicz (26>37)

-10 J Rivera (40>50)

+9 C Shepherd (30>21)

+13 Jake Cosart (44>31)

+14 Romanski (59>45)

+23 T Matheny (57>34)

+27 K Washington (55>28)

 

Edited July 2, 2016 by moonslav59

[Emp9]

They don't have a leg to stand on. It looks almost like they engaged in a conspiracy as well as a potential tax fraud. I am no DR tax expert, but to carry out a scheme like this would require a lot of reporting and double taxing of the money above the $300k filtered to Player A. Did the Red Sox put the agents in charge of doling out the money. If so, I could see the following plausible scenario, the agent gives the crappy guys $10 k and tells them were lucky to get that, the agent pockets $50k for his services and the other $240 k found its way to the stud player. Do you think it went like that?

 

The specific details are unknown, but yes, it's something like that AND EVERY team does this. Again, it's not THAT much different than the actual MLB draft. We signed players just a week ago from the draft underslot for $10,000, to put it towards Groome who's asking for top & $4Mil plus. $10k vs $4M... Do the math. In the International market, Some deals are probably more shady than others to varying degrees (admittedly), but what you described above... Is the typical way of doing business for every team when trying to sign international players. What it sounds like to me, is that if the Sox didn't do those deals, the trainers would have simply found another team that would have, so either way we would have lost those deals. MLB is essentially ruling that the Sox pushed the envelope a bit too far. Ok. Whatever. Sure. If you say so. It also sounds like a bit of jealousy from some unknown team(s). Perhaps? I wouldn't rule it out.

[User Name]

Why are some of you trying to justify what the Sox did? "Everyone does it" is not a valid excuse for misbehavior. There's not jealousy, no witch hunt. They just took a risk with too many package deals and got caught. Full stop.

[Emp9]

Why are some of you trying to justify what the Sox did? "Everyone does it" is not a valid excuse for misbehavior. There's not jealousy, no witch hunt. They just took a risk with too many package deals and got caught. Full stop.

 

Probably because it's just got that snitch bitch feel to it. Like, you threw one house party in the noisiest neighborhood on the planet and someone called the cops on you, type of feel to it. That's all. And if that's really all they got on the Sox then I'm left with being a little puzzled. Unless they were bundling prospects ... And cocaine lol ... I'm still left scratching my head over it. That's all.

[Kimmi]

My understanding is that while many teams sign package deals, the Sox were the only team that has done it to get around the penalty for exceeding the $300,000 spending limit for a player.

 

Other teams have signed package deals in the sense of, Player A will sign with you, only if you're willing to take Player B as well. Kind of like a Mike Lowell throw in thing to get the deal done.

[a700hitter]

My understanding is that while many teams sign package deals, the Sox were the only team that has done it to get around the penalty for exceeding the $300,000 spending limit for a player.

 

Other teams have signed package deals in the sense of, Player A will sign with you, only if you're willing to take Player B as well. Kind of like a Mike Lowell throw in thing to get the deal done.

Then it makes perfect sense why the Red Sox got slapped. They engaged in a violation and the other teams did not.

 

Based on UN's description of the situation, it was pretty underhanded under the table stuff. They deserved to get slapped. I thought BC had more integrity. People can slice this any way they want, but the Red Sox did not technically meet the rules. The set in place a process where things were done to violate the limits. Someone in the FO needed to take a step back and say, "this just doesn't seem." They got all caught up thinking that they found some loophole that they could exploit. If they consulted a lawyer about this, they need new lawyers. I am retired now and available. UN could be DR counsel.

[Emp9]

Then it makes perfect sense why the Red Sox got slapped. They engaged in a violation and the other teams did not.

 

Based on UN's description of the situation, it was pretty underhanded under the table stuff. They deserved to get slapped. I thought BC had more integrity. People can slice this any way they want, but the Red Sox did not technically meet the rules. The set in place a process where things were done to violate the limits. Someone in the FO needed to take a step back and say, "this just doesn't seem." They got all caught up thinking that they found some loophole that they could exploit. If they consulted a lawyer about this, they need new lawyers. I am retired now and available. UN could be DR counsel.

 

That description is from the 2-3 articles that have been out there this whole time. That wasn't new info. It was from the same 3 articles everyone else has read months ago.

[a700hitter]

That description is from the 2-3 articles that have been out there this whole time. That wasn't new info. It was from the same 3 articles everyone else has read months ago.

Whether it was new or not, it was a dirty deal. MLB should have been on top of it sooner.

[a700hitter]

Probably because it's just got that snitch bitch feel to it. Like, you threw one house party in the noisiest neighborhood on the planet and someone called the cops on you, type of feel to it. That's all. And if that's really all they got on the Sox then I'm left with being a little puzzled. Unless they were bundling prospects ... And cocaine lol ... I'm still left scratching my head over it. That's all.

No. This was dirty. I don't know the tax rules in the DR, but this would be very questionable from a legal standpoint in the US.

 

Edit: Whether we agree or disagree with the limitations put in place by MLB, the Red Sox method to circumvent those rules was dishonest behind the scenes, conspiratorial and maybe even illegal. I would drive BC to the airport to extradite him. LOL!!

Edited July 2, 2016 by a700hitter

[a700hitter]

It doesn't even pass the smell test, really.

[a700hitter]

It is almost as dirty as college sports.

[Jack Flap]

My understanding is that while many teams sign package deals, the Sox were the only team that has done it to get around the penalty for exceeding the $300,000 spending limit for a player.

 

Other teams have signed package deals in the sense of, Player A will sign with you, only if you're willing to take Player B as well. Kind of like a Mike Lowell throw in thing to get the deal done.

 

That's the thing. Everyone knew 'package deals' were going on, but if some players were actually getting more than the $300k limit, then that's something entirely different. I really can't blame the league for stepping in the way that they did, and if anything the punishments could have been worse.

[moonslav59]

My understanding is that while many teams sign package deals, the Sox were the only team that has done it to get around the penalty for exceeding the $300,000 spending limit for a player.

 

Other teams have signed package deals in the sense of, Player A will sign with you, only if you're willing to take Player B as well. Kind of like a Mike Lowell throw in thing to get the deal done.

 

That's what I said a few pages back, and I wonder if that is why the book has been thrown against just the Sox.

[moonslav59]

New topic:

 

soxprospects.com has come out with their summer rankings.

 

Top 20 prospects only

 

Here are the biggest gainers (in ranking number):

+20 Ockimey (37>17)

+16 Luis Aj. Basabe (34>18)

+13 R Raudes (33>20)

+3 Chavis (11>8)

+2 Benintendi (4>2)

+2 Hernandez (12>10)

+2 K Martin (21>19)

+1 S Travis (7>6)

+1 Lakins (10>9)

+1 Dubon (13>12)

+1 Light (15>14)

+1 T Ball (16>15)

 

Here are the biggest decliners:

-22 C Acosta (18>40)

-21 Jerez (17>38)

-13 Marrero (9>22)

-4 L Ysla (19>23)

-4 Y Pimental (20>24)

-3 Luis Ax. Basabe (8>11)

-2 Devers (2>4)

-2 Longhi (14>16)

-1 Johnson (6>7)

 

Non top 20 big swings:

 

-27 W Rijo (22>49)

-15 N Ramirez (28>43)

-14 A Rei (25>39)

-11 Stankiewicz (26>37)

-10 J Rivera (40>50)

+9 C Shepherd (30>21)

+13 Jake Cosart (44>31)

+14 Romanski (59>45)

+23 T Matheny (57>34)

+27 K Washington (55>28)

 

 

More notes:

 

1) Maybe by the next ranking period, one Basabe will pass the other.

2) Looks like Chavis is making a move to be part of the elite prospect short list.

3) Benintendi's jump from 4 to 2 may be more about the fall of Devers.

4) Marrero's tumble from top 10 to outside the top 20 seems a bit rash to me.

5) Washington's huge rise to the top 30 may be a sign he's on his way into the top 20.

 

I'm not trying to end the discussion on the IFA penatly, but it seems like it's been beaten to death a couple times already.

[Kimmi]

Then it makes perfect sense why the Red Sox got slapped. They engaged in a violation and the other teams did not.

 

Based on UN's description of the situation, it was pretty underhanded under the table stuff. They deserved to get slapped. I thought BC had more integrity. People can slice this any way they want, but the Red Sox did not technically meet the rules. The set in place a process where things were done to violate the limits. Someone in the FO needed to take a step back and say, "this just doesn't seem." They got all caught up thinking that they found some loophole that they could exploit. If they consulted a lawyer about this, they need new lawyers. I am retired now and available. UN could be DR counsel.

 

If that is actually what happened, then it does make sense that the Sox were targeted while other teams were not. In which case, Ben screwed up big time.

[Kimmi]

No. This was dirty. I don't know the tax rules in the DR, but this would be very questionable from a legal standpoint in the US.

 

Edit: Whether we agree or disagree with the limitations put in place by MLB, the Red Sox method to circumvent those rules was dishonest behind the scenes, conspiratorial and maybe even illegal. I would drive BC to the airport to extradite him. LOL!!

 

Please try to control your excitement over this. This is not a good thing for the Sox.