We should trade Dustin Pedroia.

[Dojji]

First of all, duly conceded facts:

 

1: Dustin Pedroia is a very good 2B. That's why I feel he has value.

2: Dustin Pedroia is the single most significant leader on this team... that has lost more games than it won since that was true.

 

Points to consider

1: If he played the position fulltime Brock Holt would be a well above average fulltime second baseman based on his existing track record

2: Dustin Pedroia has been significantly injured every single year he's been on this team, which throws his longevity into serious question

3: Players of Pedrioa's body type do not age well. He is a small man who uses high energy and effort to overcome his diminutive frame. This is one of the reasons he is so frequently hurt.

 

Here's a fun challenge: Find a player who is Dustin Pedroia's height (5'9") or smaller that is healthy and effective at age 35.

 

Go on. Try it. Good luck with that.

 

Perhaps I was spooked by the premature evaporation of Kevin Youkilis, but that kind of guy who's constantly nursing minor injuries makes me unreasonably nervous. Holt meanwhile has no particular affinaty with injuries that we've discovered yet, and I find that moderately significant to a team that needs its best players on the field at all times in order to prosecute a playoff run, which I'm honestly not sure Pedroia can 100% do for us anymore.

 

If we can trade a player with that heavy a risk of injury and premature decline, for an asset of high value, based on his very good reputation, and immediately replace him with a young, above average player at the same position, you have to consider it. Pedrioa is respected throughout the league, a former MVP and known to be a positive example for heart and hustle. I say we leverage that into a young starter with some upside to augment our struggling rotation and we'll make the team stronger from doing that even if we lose a little raw value at 2B.

[Spudboy]

Nothing you say is wrong.

 

But this would be a really tough sell to the fan base and more importantly to all the other teams that may have some interest. They must see what we see, too.

[Thunder]

Here's a fun challenge: Find a player who is Dustin Pedroia's height (5'9") or smaller that is healthy and effective at age 35.

 

Jose Altuve in about 10 years.

 

I hate this idea, and I hate every part of it. He's a lifer with this club, and there's no way he'd let himself be traded.

[waltr]

OMG, the foolish love affair with Brock Holt. Two years in a row this guy is MIA post ASG. Talented, yes, but certainly not an everyday player. Tradinng Pedroia may help, but, he has a no-trade clause, and while I feel he deserves the money, I would not have given him the eight year deal

[a700hitter]

 

Here's a fun challenge: Find a player who is Dustin Pedroia's height (5'9") or smaller that is healthy and effective at age 35.

 

Go on. Try it. Good luck with that.

 

Of the 700 major league players, how many full time players are 5'9" or less?

[waltr]

Who cares?

[waltr]

There are 97 players under 5-10, for whatever that is worth. That is almost 14%

[Kimmi]

Any player is tradeable for the right price. That said, I think Pedroia is worth more to the Sox than he is to any other team. I also think that Holt is more valuable to the team as the supersub than he would be as an everyday 2nd baseman, or whatever position.

 

The idea has some merit, but I can't see him being traded. And I am personally against the idea.

[a700hitter]

There are 97 players under 5-10, for whatever that is worth. That is almost 14%

 

How many are full timers? And I agree who cares. The number of full time players (not bench guys) under 5'9" is statistically small, so the search for healthy and effective players under 5'9" is meaningless. I don't think being short shortens a career. Being too fat does.

[BigPapi]

I would be okay with trading him, but not just for the sake of trading him. In any deal that contained him, I would want a valuable, proven starter in return. With saying that, the sox do have a number of players in house who can play second. Mookie and Brock could play there right now, and by 2017 Yoan Moncada may be able to if he can overcome the problems he is currently having. With sayinf that, I still would rather the sox trade some of their other highly touted prospects (devers, swihart, margot) before him.

[mvp 78]

What a ridiculous idea. Trade Pedroia?!?!? SMH...

 

[Dojji]

Jose Altuve in about 10 years.

 

So what you're saying is you couldn't find one.

 

Pedroia has been hurt each and every year he's been in the majors. He plays through it but that doesn't mean he's not getting hurt. He has to do so much more with his body just to stay competitive that it wears out a guy faster. Lack of height absolutely can mean health problems down the road. Heck it's one of the reasons Pedro (5'11" and all the talent in the world) didn't have a longer career. He was efectively in full decline starting at age 32 producing exactly 1 fully healthy and effective season after 2003 because he started -- guess what -- getting hurt.

 

I don't think the Red Sox are under any obligation to follow this ride all the way to the ground and I am very bearish on Pedroia's ability to remain healthy, effective, and in the field for 140 plus games three years from now much less 7. We have a reasonably quality replacement. Pull the plug and move on. It's the big market move and you all know it.

 

This man isn't anywhere near where he was in his prime and he's showing every evidence of beginning to go the same way Kevin Youkills did -- first a slight decline in performance, than an injury-shortened year or two, then bang. GONE. Sound familiar? With, again, a very solid young replacement in hand (Holt is no MVP but let's be frank about it, neither is Pedroia at this point) I see no reason to take that risk.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Dojji

[Youk Of The Nation]

 

1: If he played the position fulltime Brock Holt would be a well above average fulltime second baseman based on his existing track record

 

His very small track record, you mean. Brock Holt did really well in about 15-20 games and everyone was clamoring to have Napoli or Sandoval wiped off of the face of the Earth with a satellite-mounted laser and have Brock Holt's visage etched onto Mount Rushmore with that same laser. Then he started playing full time and it turned out that he was exactly what he should have been billed as all along: an excellent utility player and an at-best-serviceable full time player. I don't know why you think he would be "above average" based on limited stats, but I have to disagree on this point at least. The rest of what you said, I can see your points.

[Dojji]

If a .281/356/386 line has become blase for second base some people need their perspectives adjusted. That's above average offensive numbers for that position. If he gets on base at around the .340 range and defends well we're ahead of the curve at that position. That's his performance level over his last 800 plate appearances, which calling that a small sample size is laughable.

 

And again, my concern is that Pedroia won't be able to do that well in the years going forward. I'm frankly not even sure he'll be on the field all that much 3 years from now.

[SoxHop]

I wish Pedroia was in the top ten problems right now.

[SoxnCycles]

If a .281/356/386 line has become blase for second base some people need their perspectives adjusted. That's above average offensive numbers for that position. If he gets on base at around the .340 range and defends well we're ahead of the curve at that position. That's his performance level over his last 800 plate appearances, which calling that a small sample size is laughable.

 

And again, my concern is that Pedroia won't be able to do that well in the years going forward. I'm frankly not even sure he'll be on the field all that much 3 years from now.

 

And you don't believe other GMs know this?

[Thunder]

I wish Pedroia was in the top ten problems right now.

 

You could actually make an argument for it, if it weren't for his enthusiasm. He's gotta be the biggest cheerleader in the clubhouse.

[a700hitter]

Two guys who were considered damaged goods and over the hill coming into this season have helped propel the Yankees into first place this season -- Mark Texeira and ARod. Pedey's physical problems have not been as severe as theirs. He is also younger than both of them. He is only 32 years old. BTW, Happy Birthday, Pedey! There is no discernible diminution of his skills. He seems to have rebounded from his hand troubles as his power numbers are up over last season. There should be plenty of optimism that he will continue playing at a high level for a few years. His contract is reasonable enough too. This trade Pedey bandwagon is silly. The guy is a great player even though some think he only gets attention because he is a little white guy. That is absurd and incorrect.

 

Pedey is not the problem and Ortiz is not the problem. Every time Ortiz goes into a slump everyone writes his obituary. He is on pace for better than 30 bombs and close to 100 RBI. I posted this before he went on his most recent tear. Guys like that are not a problem. The fact that he no longer OPSs at 1.000 doesn't mean that he is ready for the bone farm.

 

Message to Ben or his successor, it isn't Pedey. It isn't Ortiz. It is the pitching stupid!

[sk7326]

I do enjoy the thread - it is hard not to think Doj wants the Red Sox to go through a Houston Astros rebuild and play Sean Coyle a lot while still charging fans the highest prices in baseball. But I digress. Some specific issues.

 

1. Pedroia was one of the Top 20 position players in baseball as recently as 2013. He was still a 4-win player last season. He has had some nagging injuries which have prevented him from being the MVP-level guy he was in 2008-2011. Even last year, with his physical issues he was the 8th best 2nd baseman in the majors. He has dropped off from being one of the league's top regulars - to merely being a very good one. This year, before the hamstring thing, his bat clearly looked to be back.

 

2. One surmises that the hamstring would have been miraculous cured if the Red Sox were in a more favorable position in the standings.

 

3. I defended Brock Holt's inclusion in the All-Star game - he was not the best choice for the Red Sox representative, but he was not a bad one. But Pedroia, five years older than Holt - is a better player right now, in virtually any level of health.

 

4. If you were to move Pedroia, you would not get equal value back. If your thread said trading Pedroia could be our Herschel Walker deal or whatever ... that would be coherent (I'd disagree, but it would be coherent). Trading Pedroia for the sake of it, or being afraid he won't last - does not make sense. Given the way the contract is structured, it is actually quite unlikely that Pedroia will become an albatross. But that is miles away from saying he could bring back a great prospect haul commesurate to what he means to the Sox. Plus, I like him.

 

5. If Pedroia got dealt, it wouldn't be to promote Holt. It would be to perhaps make room for Moncada, or to turn Betts into a Ben Zobrist Swiss-army knife.

 

So, in summary - you would not get equal value for Pedroia. Pedroia is still really damn good (even when he has been hampered physically) and if you did deal him, it wouldn't be to free up space for Brock Holt. Aside from that, I agree with you.

[Kimmi]

I do enjoy the thread - it is hard not to think Doj wants the Red Sox to go through a Houston Astros rebuild and play Sean Coyle a lot while still charging fans the highest prices in baseball. But I digress. Some specific issues.

 

1. Pedroia was one of the Top 20 position players in baseball as recently as 2013. He was still a 4-win player last season. He has had some nagging injuries which have prevented him from being the MVP-level guy he was in 2008-2011. Even last year, with his physical issues he was the 8th best 2nd baseman in the majors. He has dropped off from being one of the league's top regulars - to merely being a very good one. This year, before the hamstring thing, his bat clearly looked to be back.

 

2. One surmises that the hamstring would have been miraculous cured if the Red Sox were in a more favorable position in the standings.

 

3. I defended Brock Holt's inclusion in the All-Star game - he was not the best choice for the Red Sox representative, but he was not a bad one. But Pedroia, five years older than Holt - is a better player right now, in virtually any level of health.

 

4. If you were to move Pedroia, you would not get equal value back. If your thread said trading Pedroia could be our Herschel Walker deal or whatever ... that would be coherent (I'd disagree, but it would be coherent). Trading Pedroia for the sake of it, or being afraid he won't last - does not make sense. Given the way the contract is structured, it is actually quite unlikely that Pedroia will become an albatross. But that is miles away from saying he could bring back a great prospect haul commesurate to what he means to the Sox. Plus, I like him.

 

5. If Pedroia got dealt, it wouldn't be to promote Holt. It would be to perhaps make room for Moncada, or to turn Betts into a Ben Zobrist Swiss-army knife.

 

So, in summary - you would not get equal value for Pedroia. Pedroia is still really damn good (even when he has been hampered physically) and if you did deal him, it wouldn't be to free up space for Brock Holt. Aside from that, I agree with you.

 

Need I even say it SK? Solid post.

[SoxnCycles]

I do enjoy the thread - it is hard not to think Doj wants the Red Sox to go through a Houston Astros rebuild and play Sean Coyle a lot while still charging fans the highest prices in baseball. But I digress. Some specific issues.

 

1. Pedroia was one of the Top 20 position players in baseball as recently as 2013. He was still a 4-win player last season. He has had some nagging injuries which have prevented him from being the MVP-level guy he was in 2008-2011. Even last year, with his physical issues he was the 8th best 2nd baseman in the majors. He has dropped off from being one of the league's top regulars - to merely being a very good one. This year, before the hamstring thing, his bat clearly looked to be back.

 

2. One surmises that the hamstring would have been miraculous cured if the Red Sox were in a more favorable position in the standings.

 

3. I defended Brock Holt's inclusion in the All-Star game - he was not the best choice for the Red Sox representative, but he was not a bad one. But Pedroia, five years older than Holt - is a better player right now, in virtually any level of health.

 

4 If your thread said trading Pedroia could be our Herschel Walker deal or whatever . If you were to move Pedroia, you would not get equal value back.... that would be coherent (I'd disagree, but it would be coherent). Trading Pedroia for the sake of it, or being afraid he won't last - does not make sense. Given the way the contract is structured, it is actually quite unlikely that Pedroia will become an albatross. But that is miles away from saying he could bring back a great prospect haul commesurate to what he means to the Sox. Plus, I like him.

 

5. If Pedroia got dealt, it wouldn't be to promote Holt. It would be to perhaps make room for Moncada, or to turn Betts into a Ben Zobrist Swiss-army knife.

 

So, in summary - you would not get equal value for Pedroia. Pedroia is still really damn good (even when he has been hampered physically) and if you did deal him, it wouldn't be to free up space for Brock Holt. Aside from that, I agree with you.

 

 

That's the number 1 reason not to trade Pedroia.

[Behindenemylines]

OMG, the foolish love affair with Brock Holt. Two years in a row this guy is MIA post ASG. Talented, yes, but certainly not an everyday player. Tradinng Pedroia may help, but, he has a no-trade clause, and while I feel he deserves the money, I would not have given him the eight year deal

 

Holt's second half decline for the second straight season shows he is not an every day player. Used too much his numbers decline. Don't see the Sox moving Pedroia. Maybe down the road when Moncada is ready that may happen, but that is a couple of years away.

[User Name]

Holt's second half decline for the second straight season shows he is not an every day player. Used too much his numbers decline. Don't see the Sox moving Pedroia. Maybe down the road when Moncada is ready that may happen, but that is a couple of years away.

 

I said this over and over throughout the offeason and the beginning of the season and was lambasted for it. He's an excellent utility player, but not a regular. Some guys just tire out or get exposed.

[Behindenemylines]

I said this over and over throughout the offeason and the beginning of the season and was lambasted for it. He's an excellent utility player, but not a regular. Some guys just tire out or get exposed.

 

I agreed with you then, and moving forward Holt is much more effective when not playing every day. With that said he can fill in for longer stretches when players go down. He is a valuable piece to the Sox rebuild for 2016.

[mvp 78]

How has Pedroia hit since the ASB?

[Behindenemylines]

Pedroia's defense makes him valuable to the Sox. It to is a piece to improving the pitching. The problem moving forward is keeping him in the lineup. I don't see the Sox moving him until Moncada is ready though. They are not opening up a spot for Holt at second. Like I've said in the past Holt is not an every day player and is more valuable in the roll he is in.

[Bellhorn04]

Holt has actually gotten red hot again, with 14 hits in his last 6 games. Good to see.

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe: There is a chance that Pedroia will play as soon as Tuesday for the #RedSox.

 

Now put him through waivers!

[jacksonianmarch]

Pedroia's lack of health is the biggest issue and the biggest reason why your return would be minimal. That and the contract

[sk7326]

Pedroia's lack of health is the biggest issue and the biggest reason why your return would be minimal. That and the contract

 

It's more the contract. I have a feeling the hamstring would have cured itself faster if circumstances required it.