The Buchholz Dilemma

[jacksonianmarch]

I think every Red Sox fan has seen Clay from day 1 as a guy with massive potential. You've seen the no-no, the sub 2 ERA from the first half of 2013 and the gritty performance in the WS later that year gutting through injury. But you've also seen season after season of unexplained injury or ineffectiveness derail what looked like a promising start. You say last year that he had reasonably good health, but basically sucked all year. Now, you've seen him rise from the ashes and pitch like an ace after a rocky start to the year. He's under control with reasonable options should he continue this level of performance. But he is finally worth something, actually quite a bit in trade and you're 7 out, 7 under prior to the ASG. So the question is, do you deal him this month and cash in while the value is high, or do you keep him and hope that he can continue this level of performance and health for the next 2 seasons?

[mvp 78]

Deal him, but only for top level prospects that can help in the next few years.

[sk7326]

Definitely see what he could bring back ... but no rush to trade him. A quality starter at his salary with 2 seasons control should net at least one Top 50 sort ... the trade deadline could be funny. Last year the cost of starting pitching was not that bad, but then the Orioles moved the best prospect for a short reliever, so who knows??

[Bellhorn04]

I'm strongly for keeping him. And to me, anyone who advocates dealing him has to show how we would be a better team in 2016 by doing so.

[Behindenemylines]

Definitely see what he could bring back ... but no rush to trade him. A quality starter at his salary with 2 seasons control should net at least one Top 50 sort ... the trade deadline could be funny. Last year the cost of starting pitching was not that bad, but then the Orioles moved the best prospect for a short reliever, so who knows??

 

It would be a lot easier to make the call if the Sox weren't in such a need for starting pitching. Based on the track record over the last few years the Sox will not invest big $$$$$ on a starting pitcher, with the next two years at reasonable $$$$$ Buccholz falls into that category of the type of pitcher the Sox are looking for. Then again his track record has been so up and down. I guess the Sox should field offers and if they are blown away make the deal. If there is no deal like that then keep the team friendly contract.

[mvp 78]

I'm strongly for keeping him. And to me, anyone who advocates dealing him has to show how we would be a better team in 2016 by doing so.

 

Buchholz is too hit or miss. I'd rather deal him now, have another down year next year, but put the Sox in position to be stronger in the long run. The longer you wait to deal him, the smaller the return will be.

[Bellhorn04]

Buchholz is too hit or miss. I'd rather deal him now, have another down year next year, but put the Sox in position to be stronger in the long run. The longer you wait to deal him, the smaller the return will be.

 

So continue to suck in 2016 while we build for a better tomorrow. Yee-haw.

[Bellhorn04]

Dealing Buchholz can't fail to make us better. Just look at the magic we performed swapping Lester and Lackey for Porcello and Kelly. Good starting pitching is so easy to replace.

[mvp 78]

Buchholz is riding a hot streak. Let's not overstate the long term value he gives this franchise.

[Bellhorn04]

Personally I find it kind of hilarious that so many fans of the team with the worst starting pitching in the league can get so excited about trading away the one starter who has been good. It's the same kind of delusional thinking that led Ben to put together the 2015 rotation the way he did.

[Bellhorn04]

Buchholz is riding a hot streak. Let's not overstate the long term value he gives this franchise.

 

Yeah, he's been hot and cold, I know. But he's a talent and he's not that old. If you want to put together a list of the pitchers who have been consistent aces for a long time, it's a pretty short list, and an extremely expensive one.

[mvp 78]

It's not the same mentality at all. This team is toast right now. They won't be good again until the young pitching pans out. It will be ugly in the short term, but the franchise will be best seeved to move tradeable veteran assets now.

[Bellhorn04]

It's not the same mentality at all. This team is toast right now. They won't be good again until the young pitching pans out. It will be ugly in the short term, but the franchise will be best seeved to move tradeable veteran assets now.

 

It's already ugly. This will help make it stay ugly next year.

[User Name]

I don't think you're taking recent history into account with your asessment of Buch Bell. He missed half a season in 2013, and sucked all of 2014. He's a hung toenail away from missing the rest of 2015.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think you're taking recent history into account with your asessment of Buch Bell. He missed half a season in 2013, and sucked all of 2014. He's a hung toenail away from missing the rest of 2015.

 

He could also be healthy as a horse the next few years. Nobody knows. Buchholz's past injuries have been weird, but not the kind that suggest major issues with his arm.

 

I think what it is is that he's a flake and people don't trust him.

[mvp 78]

It's already ugly. This will help make it stay ugly next year.

 

For the long term health of this franchise, I'm ok with that.

[mvp 78]

I think Cubs and Astros fans are fairly happy right now.

[Palodios]

I would like to see Buchholz be used as a chip to improve the franchise.

Buchholz to a contender for a top prospect. Top prospect, Devers, Marrerro to a losing team for a young cost controlled ace.

 

The Red Sox may not improve immediately, but they gain some consistency and youth in the long term. They also won't be completely gutting the team, so they could still potentially make a run this year, and will have still have some money to add even more talent next offseason.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Cubs and Astros fans are fairly happy right now.

 

All depends what you call happiness, I guess. I'm sure their young fans are happy and the older ones like sniffing the playoffs for a change.

 

In the big picture those are two of the most frustrated franchises in sports.

[Bellhorn04]

Top prospect, Devers, Marrerro to a losing team for a young cost controlled ace.

 

Such as?

[a700hitter]

I would like to see Buchholz be used as a chip to improve the franchise.

Buchholz to a contender for a top prospect. Top prospect, Devers, Marrerro to a losing team for a young cost controlled ace.

 

The Red Sox may not improve immediately, but they gain some consistency and youth in the long term. They also won't be completely gutting the team, so they could still potentially make a run this year, and will have still have some money to add even more talent next offseason.

 

This year would be the time to move Buch. He has had a lot of problems putting together back to back productive seasons, but we probably can't get much for a couple of months of Buch.

[Bellhorn04]

Let's go back to the debate about the Porcello extension. Many of us, myself included, argued that 20 million a year was reasonable, in light of the ever spiraling cost of good starting pitching.

 

Now we have Buchholz on a deal that is absolute peanuts compared to the Porcello extension. And, with two team options, it provides a lot of incentive to the player to keep producing. It was a great piece of work by Theo.

 

Why would we be in such a hurry to hand such a hugely favorable deal, in an area of desperate need, off to someone else instead of using it ourselves?

[Bellhorn04]

This year would be the time to move Buch. He has had a lot of problems putting together back to back productive seasons, but we probably can't get much for a couple of months of Buch.

 

It's not a couple of months - it's 2.33 years of control.

[Palodios]

Such as?

 

Mostly the guys whose teams say they refuse to trade them.

 

Gray, Sale, Fernandez, Harvey, Miller, Kluber. They aren't going to be easy to pry away, so the Red Sox will definitely need to get someone awesome from a Buchholz deal to make it happen.

[Bellhorn04]

Mostly the guys whose teams say they refuse to trade them.

 

Gray, Sale, Fernandez, Harvey, Miller, Kluber.

 

And who exactly do you think we'll have to give up?

[Palodios]

And who exactly do you think we'll have to give up?

 

3 team trade. Buchholz, Devers, Marrerro is what I suggested.

[Bellhorn04]

3 team trade. Buchholz, Devers, Marrerro is what I suggested.

 

Do you see this as a possibility at the trade deadline this year?

[a700hitter]

It's not a couple of months - it's 2.33 years of control.

 

Then the price should be a lot higher. I thought this was a contract year for him.

[Spudboy]

I have less confidence that Ben can yield a worthwhile catch in a trade than I do in Buch's ability to remain productive for 2.33 years.

 

However, I say let him finish the season and go from there. If he is pitching as he is now he still has value in a deal and will be worth keeping for the 2016 season. Especially at his reasonable contract.

 

I don't see any moves fortifying this team for a playoff run this year. And I don't see prospects that are 2-4 years away as being of much short term value.

 

The team has s***** pitching. He is the only one getting it done.

[a700hitter]

I have less confidence that Ben can yield a worthwhile catch in a trade than I do in Buch's ability to remain productive for 2.33 years.

 

However, I say let him finish the season and go from there. If he is pitching as he is now he still has value in a deal and will be worth keeping for the 2016 season. Especially at his reasonable contract.

 

I don't see any moves fortifying this team for a playoff run this year. And I don't see prospects that are 2-4 years away as being of much short term value.

 

The team has s***** pitching. He is the only one getting it done.

if we finish dead last again, I think there is a very good chance we get a new GM.