Who is the Biggest Problem Right Now?

[Spudboy]

It's not an enigma. It's s***** coaching.

 

Hmmm.

 

Could be.

 

Ultimately this is all Ben's responsibility. Note I did not use the word fault. He is a mid manager and has a staff that makes recommendations to him. Ben is a smart young man but he is in no way an "expert" in talent evaluation. He has people who do this for him, I think.

 

I say that the Sox need a better staff of scouts at all levels. Amateur, International, MiLb, and MLB.

 

I also suspect that this team may need to revamp it's MiLb coaching staffs. There must be a reason why the Cards do such a better job of developing players and building a MLB roster. I do hate those Stepford Fans in St. Louis. But I can not fault the team in what they do.

 

I see Ben and Farrell back for another go in 2016.

[Northern Star]

Miley is about where we expected him to be, slightly worse maybe, but not surprising.

Buchholz performed better than expected.

Eduardo was a huge surprise, and has been a big win for the rotation.

 

But Kelly, Masterson, Porcello. Wow. How did a bunch of young healthy arms with a 3.50 career ERA, a 4.00 ERA, and 4.20 ERA suck so hard?

 

More pertinent to Masterson's woes is last season's performance and injury, not his career numbers.

[Northern Star]

Hmmm.

 

Could be.

 

Ultimately this is all Ben's responsibility. Note I did not use the word fault. He is a mid manager and has a staff that makes recommendations to him. Ben is a smart young man but he is in no way an "expert" in talent evaluation. He has people who do this for him, I think.

 

I say that the Sox need a better staff of scouts at all levels. Amateur, International, MiLb, and MLB.

 

I also suspect that this team may need to revamp it's MiLb coaching staffs. There must be a reason why the Cards do such a better job of developing players and building a MLB roster. I do hate those Stepford Fans in St. Louis. But I can not fault the team in what they do.

 

I see Ben and Farrell back for another go in 2016.

 

It's funny how many teams need better scouts. Now, either it's like Moneyball, the old timers arguing with the GM about what makes a good player, or it's basically a crapshoot and you just can't guarantee how guys will turn out at the major league level.

[Spudboy]

More pertinent to Masterson's woes is last season's performance and injury, not his career numbers.

 

Yup.

[Kimmi]

It's not an enigma. It's s***** coaching.

 

After the players themselves, I hold the coaches the next most responsible.

[Kimmi]

Miley is about where we expected him to be, slightly worse maybe, but not surprising.

Buchholz performed better than expected.

Eduardo was a huge surprise, and has been a big win for the rotation.

 

But Kelly, Masterson, Porcello. Wow. How did a bunch of young healthy arms with a 3.50 career ERA, a 4.00 ERA, and 4.20 ERA suck so hard?

 

This is what I've been saying. They are all performing at career worst levels, which really is unexplainable.

 

I would even argue that Miley's performance is surprising, given his career numbers and his peripherals.

[User Name]

Hmmm.

 

Could be.

 

Ultimately this is all Ben's responsibility. Note I did not use the word fault. He is a mid manager and has a staff that makes recommendations to him. Ben is a smart young man but he is in no way an "expert" in talent evaluation. He has people who do this for him, I think.

 

I say that the Sox need a better staff of scouts at all levels. Amateur, International, MiLb, and MLB.

 

I also suspect that this team may need to revamp it's MiLb coaching staffs. There must be a reason why the Cards do such a better job of developing players and building a MLB roster. I do hate those Stepford Fans in St. Louis. But I can not fault the team in what they do.

 

I see Ben and Farrell back for another go in 2016.

 

Teams like Oakland, the Rays and St. Louis seem to have a better SABR/scout/behavioral analysis blend than the Red Sox do. You may be on to something here.

[cp176]

After the players themselves, I hold the coaches the next most responsible.

 

I agree with the order . Players first then coaches ( I think ).

[jd98]

Again, the problem wasn't the strategy, it was the execution.

 

I agree with this statement, but not the way you mean. The strategy of a mediocre rotation and good offense is ok and can easily be successful. Like Kimmi, it's not my preferred strategy, but on paper it's fine. When you say execution is the problem, you're referring to players underperforming. For me the failed execution was the FO in acquiring the players to fit the strategy. This rotation was not mediocre. A mediocre rotation doesn't even have the possibility to be last in ERA. Yes, they are worse than I expected, but not by much.

Edited July 14, 2015 by jd98

[User Name]

I agree with this statement, but not the way you mean. The stategy of a mediocre rotation and good offense is ok and can easily be successful. Like Kimmi, it's not my preferred strategy, but on paper it's fine. When you say execution is the problem, you're referring to players underperforming. For me the failed execution was the FO in acquiring the players to fit the strategy. This rotation was not mediocre. A mediocre rotation doesn't even have the possibility to be last in ERA. Yes, they are worse than I expected, but not by much.

 

The actual strategy flew right over your head if this is your take though. The idea was to build a rotation of guys who could effectively utilize the now-lowered strikezone to their advantage, by showing good-to-great groundball tendencies. Getting elite-level defensive catchers was just the icing on the cake. The fact that they were going to be mediocre was our asessment, not the FO's if you ask me.

[Elktonnick]

Harold Reynolds just said on ASG broadcast that he thinks the Red Sox are still in it. His reasoning is that Sox have the resources to get a Cole Hamels. I believe Reynolds has been advocating the Sox getting Hamels since the spring.

[User Name]

Hamels is a f***ing terrible idea. Not surprised an idiot like Reynolds is pining for it.

[Palodios]

At this point, Hamels is roughly worth his contract. Giving up any significant prospects for him will be an overpay, but some teams are willing to overpay a little.

[iortiz]

Harold Reynolds just said on ASG broadcast that he thinks the Red Sox are still in it. His reasoning is that Sox have the resources to get a Cole Hamels. I believe Reynolds has been advocating the Sox getting Hamels since the spring.

 

Do you think that Hamels will save us from this mess?

[jacksonianmarch]

Hamels would be a positive move for next season. He's a horse who has been dominant for a long stretch and would be 32 at the start of next year. Hamels for this year is dumb, Hamels for next yr is a good move, IMO

[Elktonnick]

Do you think that Hamels will save us from this mess?

 

Only if they were to fill the holes in the pen and add another starter besides Hamels. I think it is a "bridge too far". So I don't think Hamels alone would be enough.

[iortiz]

Hamels would be a positive move for next season. He's a horse who has been dominant for a long stretch and would be 32 at the start of next year. Hamels for this year is dumb, Hamels for next yr is a good move, IMO

 

Kinda of what I was thinking. They should have added him in the begging, right now? pointless.

[iortiz]

Only if they were to fill the holes in the pen and add another starter besides Hamels. I think it is a "bridge too far". So I don't think Hamels alone would be enough.

 

Fully Agreed.

[jd98]

The actual strategy flew right over your head if this is your take though. The idea was to build a rotation of guys who could effectively utilize the now-lowered strikezone to their advantage, by showing good-to-great groundball tendencies. Getting elite-level defensive catchers was just the icing on the cake. The fact that they were going to be mediocre was our asessment, not the FO's if you ask me.

 

I was just referring to the pitching in general (and I don't think it was their original strategy, it just ended up that way). You're just referring to the specific type of pitching. I was plenty aware of that strategy and commented on it while it was happening. You need a decent pitching rotation. Doesn't really matter by what method that they're good. They put together a bad rotation that fit the profile that you're describing.

 

Did they just now lower the strike zone before this season? Why were 4 out of 5 of these pitchers bad last year if that's such a good strategy and the specific pitchers don't matter? As a matter of fact, there was an umpire exec on MLB Network before the season saying they were discussing raising the strike zone from the bottom of the knee to the middle of the knee, starting in 2016. Don't know if it will actually happen, but even the strategy you describe may not be so good.

[Bellhorn04]

This is what I've been saying. They are all performing at career worst levels, which really is unexplainable.

 

I would even argue that Miley's performance is surprising, given his career numbers and his peripherals.

 

There are a lot of unexplainable things in baseball. One is how much a pitcher's performance can change going from one league or environment to another. Look at how bad A. J. Burnett's numbers were when he was with the Yankees, and how good they are in the National League. Then there's a guy like Javier Vazquez, who had great numbers with more than one NL team and terrible numbers with more than one AL team.

[User Name]

I was just referring to the pitching in general (and I don't think it was their original strategy, it just ended up that way). You're just referring to the specific type of pitching. I was plenty aware of that strategy and commented on it while it was happening. You need a decent pitching rotation. Doesn't really matter by what method that they're good. They put together a bad rotation that fit the profile that you're describing.

 

Did they just now lower the strike zone before this season? Why were 4 out of 5 of these pitchers bad last year if that's such a good strategy and the specific pitchers don't matter? As a matter of fact, there was an umpire exec on MLB Network before the season saying they were discussing raising the strike zone from the bottom of the knee to the middle of the knee, starting in 2016. Don't know if it will actually happen, but even the strategy you describe may not be so good.

 

This brings us full circle: The strategy was good, (if you think it wasn't, sit down and take a look at the Pirates' peripherals) the execution wasn't. And you're dead wrong when you say "it just ended up that way". It was reported several times that that was the specific type of pitcher they were looking for. In fact, the rationale from "insiders" for the Sox skipping out on Shields entirely was his pedestrian GB rate and propensity to work high in the strike zone.

[iortiz]

I was just referring to the pitching in general (and I don't think it was their original strategy, it just ended up that way). You're just referring to the specific type of pitching. I was plenty aware of that strategy and commented on it while it was happening. You need a decent pitching rotation. Doesn't really matter by what method that they're good. They put together a bad rotation that fit the profile that you're describing.

 

Did they just now lower the strike zone before this season? Why were 4 out of 5 of these pitchers bad last year if that's such a good strategy and the specific pitchers don't matter? As a matter of fact, there was an umpire exec on MLB Network before the season saying they were discussing raising the strike zone from the bottom of the knee to the middle of the knee, starting in 2016. Don't know if it will actually happen, but even the strategy you describe may not be so good.

 

Yup, they wanted to build a rotation around Lester but they shitted the bed on that. Instead they signed all this crap. The "strategy" was dead wrong from day one as some of us here and a lot more out there predicted.

Edited July 15, 2015 by iortiz

[SoxHop]

Yup, they wanted to build a rotation around Lester but shitted the bed on that. Instead they signed all this crap. The "strategy" was death wrong from day one as some of us here and a lot out there predicted.

 

dead wrong

[iortiz]

dead wrong

 

Fixed.

[jd98]

This brings us full circle: The strategy was good, (if you think it wasn't, sit down and take a look at the Pirates' peripherals) the execution wasn't. And you're dead wrong when you say "it just ended up that way". It was reported several times that that was the specific type of pitcher they were looking for. In fact, the rationale from "insiders" for the Sox skipping out on Shields entirely was his pedestrian GB rate and propensity to work high in the strike zone.

 

I was only referring to the supposedly mediocre (actually bad) rotation when I said that.

[User Name]

I was only referring to the supposedly mediocre (actually bad) rotation when I said that.

 

Fair enough.

[SoxHop]

Two things.......

 

The bullpen might be solved. Masterson and Kelly.

 

Thinking our stellar defense was going to help the pitching kind of blows my mind.

 

What is stellar about Hanley in right, somebody and possibly Craig in Right. Betts who is an infielder in center. Along with Xander who we had no idea would be good or not. Add Sandoval who was never a great fielder........

 

I keep hearing about our stellar defense that was supposed to prevent runs........ how was that calculated to become stellar.

[a700hitter]

The problem for Ben is that he is going to have to explain why things have gone so wrong, and the "this was highly unusual or completely unexpected" excuse will not cut it with his employer. They are just excuses by a guy who has built noncompetitive teams 3 out of 4 seasons. It is just a bunch of excuses and whining. Call the whaambulence!

[Spudboy]

And "s*** the bed".

[User Name]

dead wrong

 

Learn to separate the strategy from the execution: If the strategy is to sign guys who induce a lot of groundballs and surround them with a good defense and reinforce them with an above average offense, the 2005 White Sox won it all using that strategy. The strategy is sound, the pitchers they got to execute that strategy were not. One easy thing they could have done to avoid being where they are right now was shore up the pitching depth and they did not.