Who is the Biggest Problem Right Now?

[Thunder]

I just wanted to gather everyone's opinion on this. As this week has gone on, I have slowly been led to the belief that Farrell is the biggest problem in the clubhouse right now. I love the guy, and he is responsible for the best year of my life as a Red Sox fan (since I don't remember much of '04, and the important parts of '07). At the same time, I have seen multiple people on these boards bash Cherington for years now, basically since he took over for Theo. Is he finally wearing out his welcome? Could it be the owners' faults? Another coach (Willis, Davis, Lovullo)? A particular player, especially a newer one? The only thing I'm certain of is that a change has to be made soon. Even me, the optimist, would like to see Farrell go, if that's what it takes. Edited June 14, 2015 by Thunder

[a700hitter]

The entitled fans in a landslide.

[Northern Star]

The entitled fans in a landslide.

 

This may be the stupidest thing you've ever posted, and God knows, it has plenty of competition on that front.

[a700hitter]

This may be the stupidest thing you've ever posted, and God knows, it has plenty of competition on that front.

 

Lol! Thank for appreciating my contributions. I meant it to be sarcastic. I should have given the eye roll or something else to indicate the sarcastic intent. But there are some jackholes that actually believe that nonsense.

[Northern Star]

Lol! Thank for appreciating my contributions. I meant it to be sarcastic. I should have given the eye roll or something else to indicate the sarcastic intent. But there are some jackholes that actually believe that nonsense.

 

I apologize. Sarcasm is impossible to detect sometimes.

[a700hitter]

I apologize. Sarcasm is impossible to detect sometimes.

For the record, imo, it can never be the fault of the fans, especially not Red Sox fans who are the most loyal ardent fans of them all.

[FenwayFaithful]

I apologize. Sarcasm is impossible to detect sometimes.

You couldn't detect the sarcasm? Yikes.

 

I'd put the blame something like:

Cherington/Lucchino/whoever is contributing to/making roster decisions - 50%

Players - 45%

Farrell - 5%

Edited June 15, 2015 by FenwayFaithful

[User Name]

This is a very poorly managed team.

[cp176]

The players are not that good.

[SoxnCycles]

What? No "all of the above"?

 

That's my pick.

[Bellhorn04]

I had to point the finger at Ben. He's the guy who configured this roster with a lot of money and prospects at his disposal.

[a700hitter]

I had to point the finger at Ben. He's the guy who configured this roster with a lot of money and prospects at his disposal.

what do you know about running a big league club. This is all part of Ben's strategy.

 

Just kidding. The blame has to sit with him. He built it. Ben was nothing more than a loyal assistant. He is out of his depth in the lead role. Not to be completely critical of him, I have heard that Theo has said that Ben always got the coffee order right.

 

He has to be concerned that he will lose his job if we finish last again. Anyone in his position would be exploring every option to turn this team around and save his job. There is the possibility that he is as Spud said, "a dumbass motherf***er" and he doesn't realize that his job is in peril. There is also the possibility that the FO has lost so much faith in him that they don't want him making any big moves. Without some big moves, this team is dead and Ben should start circulating his resume. I have read that Theo has been having a big problem getting someone who can get the coffee order right.

[iortiz]

This would be the 3/4 year of bad seasons with a lot of money behind. A lot of mistakes in all those years. The strategy haven't worked out. The traded players haven't worked out, in fact other teams have eaten our lunch in that regard. The FAs haven't worked out either, so Ben has to go. Farrell has to go as well, horrible fundamentals and calls executed on the field.

 

The new FO has to change the strategy, mentality and culture of this team. They also have to get rid somehow of the busts signed like Panda, Miley, Porcello and put Kelly where he belongs, at BP.

 

They also have to build for once and for all a solid rotation mixed with true/proved/solid arms and rounded with young top talent from the farm/trades.

Edited June 15, 2015 by iortiz

[sk7326]

Largest slice of blame pie - the coaching staff

 

Ben went out and signed the top 2 position players in the free agent crop. You would have been a fool to expect sunshine and rainbows from them, but they were expected to be helpful, and Ben got them both on pretty reasonable deals by 2015 standards. (ignore the money - functionally doesn't matter, but the years were totally acceptable) Dustin Pedroia is healthy. We are not relying excessively on old farts - this has been a large, systemic level of offensive underachievement (Bogaerts and Pedroia aside).

 

He let Lester go and peopled the rotation with a bunch of mid-rotation sort of guys. Aside from Buchholz they have not pitched like mid-rotation pitchers. Porcello has pitched more like back end, and Miley and Kelly have pitched like guys who might not be actual big league starters. For a bunch of guys in their 20s with either stuff or track record to be *decent*, this is serious underachievement.

 

When the team - with talented players, who have actually not shown that much evidence of non-talent, all fail together, that points to a systemic flaw. I would be all for a managerial change here - something needs to be shaken up.

[Thunder]

This would be the 3/4 year of bad seasons with a lot of money behind. A lot of mistakes in all those years. The strategy haven't worked out. The traded players haven't worked out, in fact other teams have eaten our lunch in that regard. The FAs haven't worked out either, so Ben has to go. Farrell has to go as well, horrible fundamentals and calls executed on the field.

 

The new FO has to change the strategy, mentality and culture of this team. They also have to get rid somehow of the busts signed like Panda, Miley, Porcello and put Kelly where he belongs, at BP.

 

They also have to build for once and for all a solid rotation mixed with true/proved/solid arms and rounded with young top talent from the farm/trades.

 

I agree. I liked the signings of Hanley and Pablo in particular, but knew in the back of my mind that they may not fit the system, or the ballpark. I thought it would be okay if we were winning games, which hasn't happened.

[Spudboy]

This is all on Ben. He built this team.

[User Name]

Largest slice of blame pie - the coaching staff

 

Ben went out and signed the top 2 position players in the free agent crop. You would have been a fool to expect sunshine and rainbows from them, but they were expected to be helpful, and Ben got them both on pretty reasonable deals by 2015 standards. (ignore the money - functionally doesn't matter, but the years were totally acceptable) Dustin Pedroia is healthy. We are not relying excessively on old farts - this has been a large, systemic level of offensive underachievement (Bogaerts and Pedroia aside).

 

He let Lester go and peopled the rotation with a bunch of mid-rotation sort of guys. Aside from Buchholz they have not pitched like mid-rotation pitchers. Porcello has pitched more like back end, and Miley and Kelly have pitched like guys who might not be actual big league starters. For a bunch of guys in their 20s with either stuff or track record to be *decent*, this is serious underachievement.

 

When the team - with talented players, who have actually not shown that much evidence of non-talent, all fail together, that points to a systemic flaw. I would be all for a managerial change here - something needs to be shaken up.

 

I, I love this post. I want to take it out to dinner and put a ring on its finger.

[Bellhorn04]

Largest slice of blame pie - the coaching staff

 

Ben went out and signed the top 2 position players in the free agent crop. You would have been a fool to expect sunshine and rainbows from them, but they were expected to be helpful, and Ben got them both on pretty reasonable deals by 2015 standards.

 

The problem with the Hanley signing, which we now know, is that he was signed to play LF, and he's a truly horrific outfielder. He's a DH.

 

I'm still baffled as to what the plan with the outfield was from the beginning. So many bodies-Hanley, Victorino, Craig, Betts, Castillo, Nava.

[a700hitter]

The problem with the Hanley signing, which we now know, is that he was signed to play LF, and he's a truly horrific outfielder. He's a DH.

 

I'm still baffled as to what the plan with the outfield was from the beginning. So many bodies-Hanley, Victorino, Craig, Betts, Castillo, Nava.

And no DH is worth $20 million/year if Papi isn't worth it.

[sk7326]

The problem with the Hanley signing, which we now know, is that he was signed to play LF, and he's a truly horrific outfielder. He's a DH.

 

I'm still baffled as to what the plan with the outfield was from the beginning. So many bodies-Hanley, Victorino, Craig, Betts, Castillo, Nava.

 

They signed him for his bat - he is a horrific FIELDER ... left field is the easiest position on the field, it was the best choice to keep him healthy. Now, 3B would have made more sense longer term - and I do think there is a reasonable case for trying to deal Sandoval now for that reason. (that and ALL of the Red Sox uber-prospect muscle is at 3B potentially)

 

I think the outfield plan was pretty straightforward - try to consolidate a strength and use it to deal. Victorino's body and Craig's bat screwed that up. Betts is fine, although one suspects his slow start now has teams hoping they can buy low on him.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the outfield plan was pretty straightforward - try to consolidate a strength and use it to deal. Victorino's body and Craig's bat screwed that up. Betts is fine, although one suspects his slow start now has teams hoping they can buy low on him.

 

Well, I guess the question is whether Ben should have seen Victorino's bad body and Craig's bad bat coming.

 

Maybe it can be chalked up to one piece of bad luck after another...

[sk7326]

Well, I guess the question is whether Ben should have seen Victorino's bad body and Craig's bad bat coming.

 

Maybe it can be chalked up to one piece of bad luck after another...

 

Well, I think Victorino was the least important of the outfield assets ... he is on an expiring deal, you figure he could be dealt for a rock bottom price without anybody being bothered too much.

 

Craig was risky, but he had hit as recently as 2013 and he is on what would normally be a very reasonable contract.

 

There has been some bad luck - the odds seemed to be in favor of finding 3 good guys from this pile ... and so far it has not quite worked that way yet. That said, a Ramirez-Betts-Castillo outfield looks like the right move to play and I think that has become pretty clear.

 

Whatever it is, the offense's failings have been crippling.

[sk7326]

And no DH is worth $20 million/year if Papi isn't worth it.

 

He'd have to be really good - Papi 2013, V-Mart last year. It's a pretty high bar to clear.

[Gringo]

When they signed Sandoval and didn't sign or trade for a frontline starting pitcher, I knew the season was going to be a long painful one.

 

Why did they let Toronto get Donaldson? We should've been all over that.

 

Now watch us trade away our future for Cole Hamels and still miss the playoffs.

[Thunder]

When they signed Sandoval and didn't sign or trade for a frontline starting pitcher, I knew the season was going to be a long painful one.

 

Why did they let Toronto get Donaldson? We should've been all over that.

 

Now watch us trade away our future for Cole Hamels and still miss the playoffs.

 

Jays got Donaldson in a trade for Lawrie. Wasn't much we could do there.

[Spudboy]

Jays got Donaldson in a trade for Lawrie. Wasn't much we could do there.

 

How is this so? None of us know the timing and other details of that deal.

 

I find it strange that Ben did not know that Donaldson was going to be dealt. Especially since Beane has a track record of working with and dealing with the Sox.

 

I think someone f***ed up.

[Thunder]

How is this so? None of us know the timing and other details of that deal.

 

I find it strange that Ben did not know that Donaldson was going to be dealt. Especially since Beane has a track record of working with and dealing with the Sox.

 

I think someone f***ed up.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11951977/oakland-athletics-trade-josh-donaldson-toronto-blue-jays

[mvp 78]

I voted "players" because ultimately they are the ones s***ing on the field.

 

I think everyone deserves some blame pie though.

[Spudboy]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11951977/oakland-athletics-trade-josh-donaldson-toronto-blue-jays

 

Great. But that article does not give pertinent dates that would indicate when initial discussion of moving Donaldson was. I still don't know IF or WHEN the Sox may have known.

 

Maybe they never knew until it was a done deal? Then the question would be why the Sox did not call Beane and ask about Donaldson while scoping the terrain for a 3rd baseman.

 

In any case Toronto made a good deal for a player the Sox could use very much and who they could easily afford to get.

[SoxHop]

I, I love this post. I want to take it out to dinner and put a ring on its finger.

 

Largest slice of blame pie - the coaching staff

 

Ben went out and signed the top 2 position players in the free agent crop. You would have been a fool to expect sunshine and rainbows from them, but they were expected to be helpful, and Ben got them both on pretty reasonable deals by 2015 standards. (ignore the money - functionally doesn't matter, but the years were totally acceptable) Dustin Pedroia is healthy. We are not relying excessively on old farts - this has been a large, systemic level of offensive underachievement (Bogaerts and Pedroia aside).

 

He let Lester go and peopled the rotation with a bunch of mid-rotation sort of guys. Aside from Buchholz they have not pitched like mid-rotation pitchers. Porcello has pitched more like back end, and Miley and Kelly have pitched like guys who might not be actual big league starters. For a bunch of guys in their 20s with either stuff or track record to be *decent*, this is serious underachievement.

 

When the team - with talented players, who have actually not shown that much evidence of non-talent, all fail together, that points to a systemic flaw. I would be all for a managerial change here - something needs to be shaken up.

 

Well said.

 

But this is a big pie, even the secondary characters should possibly be let go.

 

Who's decision was it to sign Farrell and then resign him again?

 

I've read that Farrell and Ben are pretty much a team. If one goes, than both of them will go as it will signal that a whole new philosophy is needed.