Joe Kelly Debacle and Other

[bostopz]

The Joe Kelly debacle has me thinking what voodoo curse has been placed upon the Sox. From guys inexplicably playing the worst baseball of their lives to possible mismanagement from GM and coaching staff.

 

1--- Butterfield has made some unbelievably ignorant "sends" in which guys get nailed and it hasn't been close. OFC he has some others that worked. It doesn't make up for he stupidity. Then to hear Lyons excuse the stupid sends "because it is aggressive" -- you have to wonder what kind of pot are they smoking?

 

2--- Maybe some of you can answer this-- but when Naps was going through his horrid slump, isn't it the job of the hitting coach to look at tapes to see what might be going wrong?

 

3--- I know it's been a while- but tell me how many of you were stunned that Cruz was pitched to? I know Farrell apologized for it -- but it was beyond stupid -- way beyond it to pitch to him.

 

4-- As for Kelly.-- first off his last start our catcher apologizes for calling Kelly to throw so many fastballs? What??????? Didn't you have a game plan? Don't the coaches also go over the game plan? If it wasn't in the game plan then why did you do it- or why didn't the coaching staff stop it? If it was in the game plan, then what type of bullcrap are you feeding us?

 

5--- Per link below I realize Kelly threw megaton of fastballs. I heard / read the fastballs wound up sliding right over the middle of the plate. Schilling said so much on Nat'l TV weeks ago. He used stats to indicate Kell'ys 4-seem fastball was just silly to keep throwing. He spoke that his 2seem fastball is his weapon. First off- I'm wondering if anyone knows what percentage of 2seem vs 4seem vs Kelly's other pitches did he get lit up with?

 

What I'm getting at is Schilling used stats to state the 4seem fastball sucks for Kelly. SO is he all wet? If Schilling can pick it up why can't the sox coaches-- if in fact Schilling is right?

 

Secondly -- Kelly's curve is mediocre. Sure he should have thrown it a bit more. So maybe Farrell is right- but somehow the way this season is going -- it's like we're in "Bizzarro World" and coaches and players are tanking at historic levels or totally lost their minds all over the course of a couple of months. - It IS BIZZARO WORLD out there in BOSOX Land. I get the feeling Kelly should dump the 4 seem and Farrell is either out to lunch about the curve or feeding us more bullcrap from Bizzarro World. He's made his bones as a pitching coach and is a managerial world champ- I think he must know what he is doing so I'll yield. . . And patiently wait . . .

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2015/05/red_sox_notebook_curve_may_cure_joe_kelly

Edited May 28, 2015 by bostopz

[mvp 78]

Maybe Kelly kind of sucks. Maybe the coaches can only do so much to help a struggling player. I've seen players run through more Butterfield signs than Butterfieldmake poor calls.

[mvp 78]

Also, I'm glad Swihart took the blame. It shows leadership that he'll throw himself under the bus when it's obvious that the pitcher flat out stinks.

[Station 13]

Kelly throws mostly a 2 seam fastball. (nearly 50% vs 20% 4 seamer). His offspeed stuff is poor so his heavy fastball doesn't quite work. He got a rubber arm so I hope they keep running him out there every fifth day and see if he improves. Edited May 28, 2015 by Station 13

[SoxnCycles]

Also, I'm glad Swihart took the blame. It shows leadership that he'll throw himself under the bus when it's obvious that the pitcher flat out stinks.

 

Don't you know it's more important to be honest with the fans, than it is to have your pitcher's back?

 

If he were honest, fans would be calling him a lousy teammate.

[Palodios]

I am not as concerned about the new pitching coach. He hasn't had much nearly as much time with the team to look over tape, etc.

 

As far as Chili Davis and John Farrell, they are working for their jobs, and don't seem to know it yet.

[User Name]

Chili Davis seems, to me, like he's part of the problem.

[Bellhorn04]

The reason they haven't fired Chili yet is because they want to space out all the ax jobs a bit, to make things look more methodical.

[bostopz]

Maybe Kelly kind of sucks. Maybe the coaches can only do so much to help a struggling player. I've seen players run through more Butterfield signs than Butterfieldmake poor calls.

 

 

Maybe Kelly does suck. But if Schilling is right about the 4sem fastball- which he used stats to show the 4seem isn't good for Kelly why does he continue to throw it?

 

Yes players run through his stop sign. I'm not saying fire the guy. What I'm saying is at least twice so far he has sent players that he had no business sending and the play wasn't even close. Not even close. That last one with no outs was mind-boggling why he sent Naps. Mind-boggling.

[bostopz]

Kelly throws mostly a 2 seam fastball. (nearly 50% vs 20% 4 seamer). His offspeed stuff is poor so his heavy fastball doesn't quite work. He got a rubber arm so I hope they keep running him out there every fifth day and see if he improves.

 

But if Schilling was right-- and that pitch is getting crushed at a much higher rate-- why throw it at all?

[bostopz]

Don't you know it's more important to be honest with the fans, than it is to have your pitcher's back?

 

If he were honest, fans would be calling him a lousy teammate.

 

Sure I could buy what you are saying -- if not for the fact -- why would anyone call so many fastballs? There had to be a game plan, right? If Kelly wanted to throw so many - why didn't the catcher stop it?

[bostopz]

Also, I'm glad Swihart took the blame. It shows leadership that he'll throw himself under the bus when it's obvious that the pitcher flat out stinks.

 

Not that it matters but I don't think it was Swihart.

 

Secodnly, if oyu have a decent game plan, why not say the game plan was wrong? You wouldn't have ot personally say you made a mistake, right?

 

Recently after game 1 vs Minny, CHili Davis came out and said the hitting game plan was wrong in that the pitcher did nearly opposite than the scouting report. Why not say it with the pitching game plan too?

As I said -- Bizzarro World.

[a700hitter]

The Joe Kelly debacle has me thinking what voodoo curse has been placed upon the Sox. From guys inexplicably playing the worst baseball of their lives to possible mismanagement from GM and coaching staff.

 

1--- Butterfield has made some unbelievably ignorant "sends" in which guys get nailed and it hasn't been close. OFC he has some others that worked. It doesn't make up for he stupidity. Then to hear Lyons excuse the stupid sends "because it is aggressive" -- you have to wonder what kind of pot are they smoking?

 

2--- Maybe some of you can answer this-- but when Naps was going through his horrid slump, isn't it the job of the hitting coach to look at tapes to see what might be going wrong?

 

3--- I know it's been a while- but tell me how many of you were stunned that Cruz was pitched to? I know Farrell apologized for it -- but it was beyond stupid -- way beyond it to pitch to him.

4-- As for Kelly.-- first off his last start our catcher apologizes for calling Kelly to throw so many fastballs? What??????? Didn't you have a game plan? Don't the coaches also go over the game plan? If it wasn't in the game plan then why did you do it- or why didn't the coaching staff stop it? If it was in the game plan, then what type of bullcrap are you feeding us?

 

5--- Per link below I realize Kelly threw megaton of fastballs. I heard / read the fastballs wound up sliding right over the middle of the plate. Schilling said so much on Nat'l TV weeks ago. He used stats to indicate Kell'ys 4-seem fastball was just silly to keep throwing. He spoke that his 2seem fastball is his weapon. First off- I'm wondering if anyone knows what percentage of 2seem vs 4seem vs Kelly's other pitches did he get lit up with?

 

What I'm getting at is Schilling used stats to state the 4seem fastball sucks for Kelly. SO is he all wet? If Schilling can pick it up why can't the sox coaches-- if in fact Schilling is right?

 

Secondly -- Kelly's curve is mediocre. Sure he should have thrown it a bit more. So maybe Farrell is right- but somehow the way this season is going -- it's like we're in "Bizzarro World" and coaches and players are tanking at historic levels or totally lost their minds all over the course of a couple of months. - It IS BIZZARO WORLD out there in BOSOX Land. I get the feeling Kelly should dump the 4 seem and Farrell is either out to lunch about the curve or feeding us more bullcrap from Bizzarro World. He's made his bones as a pitching coach and is a managerial world champ- I think he must know what he is doing so I'll yield. . . And patiently wait . . .

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2015/05/red_sox_notebook_curve_may_cure_joe_kelly

 

Good post. The Cruz thing still has me shaking my head. It was beyond stupid. It was Baseball 101 to leave the lefty in to walk Cruz to fill the empty base and pitch to the lefty Seager.

[BSN07]

Kelly has had enough really good starts to keep running him out there and see if he finds more consistency.

 

Chili for whatever reason doesn't seem to fit well with the current roster imo. But it's always hard to tell just from watching the games. If he's fired it won't shock or anger me. 2 months is kind of a small sample size but watching the offense struggle night in and night out is getting old as a fan.

 

The rotation seems to overall have gotten better to me since the new PC, but it's way early so that is gonna have to play out over the year.

[Bellhorn04]

Kelly has had enough really good starts to keep running him out there and see if he finds more consistency.

 

 

Maybe. He's had 4 good starts and 5 horrible ones. Not a great average.

[a700hitter]

How much more time does Kelly get? Do they keep running him out there until the AS break? Even in this weak division, we could be buried by then as the rest of our rotation is not strong enough to pick him up.

[Bellhorn04]

How much more time does Kelly get? Do they keep running him out there until the AS break? Even in this weak division, we could be buried by then as the rest of our rotation is not strong enough to pick him up.

 

After sweeping KC, the Yankees might go on another one of their good runs and bury us in the near future.

[Spudboy]

The Joe Kelly debacle has me thinking what voodoo curse has been placed upon the Sox. From guys inexplicably playing the worst baseball of their lives to possible mismanagement from GM and coaching staff.

 

1--- Butterfield has made some unbelievably ignorant "sends" in which guys get nailed and it hasn't been close. OFC he has some others that worked. It doesn't make up for he stupidity. Then to hear Lyons excuse the stupid sends "because it is aggressive" -- you have to wonder what kind of pot are they smoking?

 

2--- Maybe some of you can answer this-- but when Naps was going through his horrid slump, isn't it the job of the hitting coach to look at tapes to see what might be going wrong?

 

3--- I know it's been a while- but tell me how many of you were stunned that Cruz was pitched to? I know Farrell apologized for it -- but it was beyond stupid -- way beyond it to pitch to him.

 

4-- As for Kelly.-- first off his last start our catcher apologizes for calling Kelly to throw so many fastballs? What??????? Didn't you have a game plan? Don't the coaches also go over the game plan? If it wasn't in the game plan then why did you do it- or why didn't the coaching staff stop it? If it was in the game plan, then what type of bullcrap are you feeding us?

 

5--- Per link below I realize Kelly threw megaton of fastballs. I heard / read the fastballs wound up sliding right over the middle of the plate. Schilling said so much on Nat'l TV weeks ago. He used stats to indicate Kell'ys 4-seem fastball was just silly to keep throwing. He spoke that his 2seem fastball is his weapon. First off- I'm wondering if anyone knows what percentage of 2seem vs 4seem vs Kelly's other pitches did he get lit up with?

 

What I'm getting at is Schilling used stats to state the 4seem fastball sucks for Kelly. SO is he all wet? If Schilling can pick it up why can't the sox coaches-- if in fact Schilling is right?

 

Secondly -- Kelly's curve is mediocre. Sure he should have thrown it a bit more. So maybe Farrell is right- but somehow the way this season is going -- it's like we're in "Bizzarro World" and coaches and players are tanking at historic levels or totally lost their minds all over the course of a couple of months. - It IS BIZZARO WORLD out there in BOSOX Land. I get the feeling Kelly should dump the 4 seem and Farrell is either out to lunch about the curve or feeding us more bullcrap from Bizzarro World. He's made his bones as a pitching coach and is a managerial world champ- I think he must know what he is doing so I'll yield. . . And patiently wait . . .

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2015/05/red_sox_notebook_curve_may_cure_joe_kelly

 

Pardon me. I just read this post and have yet to read all the others.

 

It may be the Strawberry Cush or premature senility but I seem to remember Shilling advocating for Kelly to throw almost nothing but 4 seam fastballs. Kelly was throwing about 70% four steamers and Schilling said that Kelly's four seam command was so good that he could paint both sides of the plate with it. He said the other pitches that he threw were not needed very much. He wanted Kelly to abandon the two seamer. He wanted Kelly to feature his 4 seamer at least 80% of the time.

 

Not that much of this matters if the coaches are not telling him the same thing.

[Kimmi]

Pardon me. I just read this post and have yet to read all the others.

 

It may be the Strawberry Cush or premature senility but I seem to remember Shilling advocating for Kelly to throw almost nothing but 4 seam fastballs. Kelly was throwing about 70% four steamers and Schilling said that Kelly's four seam command was so good that he could paint both sides of the plate with it. He said the other pitches that he threw were not needed very much. He wanted Kelly to abandon the two seamer. He wanted Kelly to feature his 4 seamer at least 80% of the time.

 

Not that much of this matters if the coaches are not telling him the same thing.

 

According to a Fangraphs article, Schilling did suggest that Kelly throw his 4 seamer more often, and to throw it high, changing the batter's eye level. This would supposedly result in more strikeouts.

 

The coaching staff is now suggesting that Kelly throw his curveball more often, the rationale being that the slow speed of the curveball will make his fastball more effective.

[User Name]

Schilling for pitching coach.

[Northern Star]

Chili Davis seems, to me, like he's part of the problem.

 

I was just reading today how he was a switch-hitter (and a good one) but doesn't seem to be able to fix Panda's problems.

[Spudboy]

Schilling for pitching coach.

 

I don't care for his politics but I have always admired his smarts and baseball savy. I doubt that his health would allow him to be a full time coach but damn I have a feeling he would be excellent in that role.

[Spudboy]

According to a Fangraphs article, Schilling did suggest that Kelly throw his 4 seamer more often, and to throw it high, changing the batter's eye level. This would supposedly result in more strikeouts.

 

The coaching staff is now suggesting that Kelly throw his curveball more often, the rationale being that the slow speed of the curveball will make his fastball more effective.

 

Thanks Kimmi. I was not sure if my brain was fading or if Shilling had said what I seemed to remember!!

[a700hitter]

Thanks Kimmi. I was not sure if my brain was fading or if Shilling had said what I seemed to remember!!

I thought I was remembering incorrectly. Schill was doing a grip demonstration in the booth and he was talking about how the 4 seamer would hop.

[Bellhorn04]

Schilling for pitching coach.

 

That'd be pretty interesting. If he got along with the pitchers he could be great, because I don't think many people know more about how to pitch than Schilling.

[YAZMAN]

I was just reading today how he was a switch-hitter (and a good one) but doesn't seem to be able to fix Panda's problems.

 

Maybe Panda should just break down some video with Pedro.

[User Name]

YAZMAN SIGHTING boys!

[Spudboy]

Yeah. He has taken a break from riding his moped.

[bostopz]

Thanks spudboy. Thanks kimmi. Yep I got it backwards. It was the 2seemer Schil said should be scrapped.

 

SO here is what I don't get-- our coach/pitching coach says Kelly needs to throw more curves. While he may need to do-- but Farell focuses on his weaker pitches. Schilling said Kelly is getting slammed with his 2seemer - yet not a word after Kelly's last start of the 2seemer.

 

SO Kelly should throw his subpar curve ball more?

 

What did we see tonight? Our rookie pitcher threw 82% fastballs.

 

If the data shows that Kelly's 2seemer sucks, why the hell isn't Farrell jumping on that rather than speak of the curve?

 

No after I've said this Kelly's 2seemer will probably be his best pitch for the rest of the year. LOL.

[GomesBeard]

Well, after the way Rodriguez pitched last night, someone is going to have to be bounced from the rotation to give him more starts. Pretty impressive against a tough line-up that's been playing well lately. Doesn't seem like he has electric stuff but boy, was he locating last night.... And I'm sure Swihart having some familiarity didn't hurt either.