Is the actual rotation the worst in the last 10 Y?

[sk7326]

Agree here - no question. It looks so far as though Dombrowski is using some common sense. No one on the planet truly felt that Ramirez should be left in the outfield. I think he helped the coaching staff by actually saying what anyone with a baseball brain already knew. He knows we need two pitchers - real pitchers. Not two more to add to the proverbial landfill of veteran players looking for a home. It will be interesting to see what he does with Buccholtz. He won't pay him to sit and occupy space no matter how good he might on occasion actually be.

Porcello is in

Rodriguez is in

 

the rest really are up for grabs. i don't think that anything is going to be given to anyone because of a contract.

 

I'm curious to know what you think about Betts possibly playing some right field. Could that be a trade audition? I hope not but you never know.

 

I think it's just trying to identify the best alignment ... Bradley is a great CF

[sk7326]

Anyone who thinks that Ben's plan is about to bear fruit is seriously mistaken-- at least with regard to the pitching. I am not sure that he had any specific pitching plan or strategy except to collect mediocre garbage. From today's Herald:

 

 

 

 

 

DD has his work cut out for him.

 

Correlation != causation ...

 

What is funny (and has been beaten to death) is the nature of Ben's miscalculation. Essentially Cherington built a team with the intention of basically having Toronto's story arc this season. Alas.

[sk7326]

Eduardo has not really been all that great. He might be better than some of the other pitchers that we've had, but some of those other pitchers may have turned the corner. It's not that I have anything against him. I really like him and think he will be a very good pitcher for us. That being said, he is still developing, and starting the season in AAA is not necessarily a bad idea, depending on how the rest of the rotation pans out.

 

Personally, I think it would be a big mistake to start both Eduardo and Owens in the rotation.

 

Relying on two rookies is tough - relying on a rookie and a 2nd year player is less tough. The issue with putting Rodriguez at AAA is that there is precious little for him to learn there - we know he can get AAA/AAAA guys out - but turning over a big league lineup, being resourceful - that is grown up stuff. The team needs some help externally - but the kids improving the way kids usually do (or for that matter 27 year olds), will cover a solid chunk of that.

[a700hitter]

Correlation != causation ...

 

What is funny (and has been beaten to death) is the nature of Ben's miscalculation. Essentially Cherington built a team with the intention of basically having Toronto's story arc this season. Alas.

To quote Maxwell Smart, "Missed it by that much." holding fingers an inch apart. LOL!

[Kimmi]

If I had one game that we needed to win right now, believe it or not, i would start Porcello. That being said, Rodriguez would be up next. i'm not nuts about saying that with respect to a 22? year old kid who may or may not become better than a middle of the rotation arm. Too many maybes, ifs, and hope sos with the rest of the bunch. I truly hope that it doesn't boil down to having Owens in the starting rotation early next year. i don't think that it will. I have faith in Dombrowski's knowledge of the game. i don't think that a rotation featuring Buccholtz and Kelly is going to get off the ground. I agree with you about depth and if we pick up a couple of pitchers in the off-season, at least one of those two will help add some. Possibly i am a dreamer but I really don't think that Dombrowski will go with the same old arms hoping that they might be better next year.

 

Dombrowski has stated that we need an ace. He has also made known his affinity for strike out pitchers. Because of that, I think he will add two starters this offseason, a #1 and a #2. That likley means that one of Kelly or Miley will not be in the rotation to start the season.

[Kimmi]

Anyone who thinks that Ben's plan is about to bear fruit is seriously mistaken-- at least with regard to the pitching. I am not sure that he had any specific pitching plan or strategy except to collect mediocre garbage.

 

While I think there is a decent chance that Porcello and Kelly can pitch more like we've seen recently, depending on that to be the case would be too risky, based on the small sample. I would like Dombrowski to acquire two top pitchers, but I think the rotation would be pretty good if he at least acquired a #1 guy.

[reYoukilis]

I'd like to see one ace-like pitcher added and then get a killer bullpen. I want to see if there's any carryover from what's good now to next year with the starters.

[Kimmi]

Correlation != causation ...

 

What is funny (and has been beaten to death) is the nature of Ben's miscalculation. Essentially Cherington built a team with the intention of basically having Toronto's story arc this season. Alas.

 

Toronto is living proof that Ben's plan was not a faulty plan.

[Kimmi]

Relying on two rookies is tough - relying on a rookie and a 2nd year player is less tough. The issue with putting Rodriguez at AAA is that there is precious little for him to learn there - we know he can get AAA/AAAA guys out - but turning over a big league lineup, being resourceful - that is grown up stuff. The team needs some help externally - but the kids improving the way kids usually do (or for that matter 27 year olds), will cover a solid chunk of that.

 

I don't disagree with what you're saying about Rodriguez. He will almost surely be in the rotation to start the season.

[Kimmi]

I'd like to see one ace-like pitcher added and then get a killer bullpen. I want to see if there's any carryover from what's good now to next year with the starters.

 

The bullpen needs a complete makeover. I think Koji and Tazawa will both bounce back, but the BP has to be rebuilt with the very real possibility that one or both of them might not.

[iortiz]

Anyone who thinks that Ben's plan is about to bear fruit is seriously mistaken-- at least with regard to the pitching. I am not sure that he had any specific pitching plan or strategy except to collect mediocre garbage. From today's Herald:

 

 

 

 

 

DD has his work cut out for him.

Ben's plan was a mistake since day one. Some are comparing it with Toronto LOL!. The pieces used by Toronto are way better all-around.

[iortiz]

... The results speak by themselves.

[pruneface]

Toronto is living proof that Ben's plan was not a faulty plan.

How? Care to elaborate? They got an ace at the deadline and some kick ass hitters are in their roster. If I want an apologist, I'll talk to a white person on an Indian Reservation.

 

Message from Ben Cherington.

 

To Sox fans who are expressing dismay over the team's current travails: GO f*** YOURSELVES!

 

You satiated ingrates who've gone soft the last 11 years can suck it. You remind me of the obese kid being indulged around in a shopping cart at whatever shopping mall fat, stupid Americans happen to frequent. Tons to choose from. Too bad the gluttony's almost over. 3 championships in 10 years. One was an albatross. This after 86 of futility. I met a Yankee fan yesterday and couldn't tell the difference untill he hit more over a head with a pinstriped tomahawk.

 

Yes, I'm gone. Most of you are happy. But I'll still be richer than any of you will ever hope to achieve in you miserable lifetimes. Remember that while you play with other peoples' money and pretend to know s*** you know nothing about. Pretentious SOBs!

 

PS: If it's any consolation, I agree that I should have been fired. I failed. But so what? Since when has baseball reached refugee status? Did I mention you can go f*** yourselves?

 

Sincerely,

 

Ben Cherington.

(BTW, go f*** yourselves).

[Bellhorn04]

How? Care to elaborate? They got an ace at the deadline and some kick ass hitters are in their roster. If I want an apologist, I'll talk to a white person on an Indian Reservation.

 

Message from Ben Cherington.

 

To Sox fans who are expressing dismay over the team's current travails: GO f*** YOURSELVES!

 

You satiated ingrates who've gone soft the last 11 years can suck it. You remind me of the obese kid being indulged around in a shopping cart at whatever shopping mall fat, stupid Americans happen to frequent. Tons to choose from. Too bad the gluttony's almost over. 3 championships in 10 years. One was an albatross. This after 86 of futility. I met a Yankee fan yesterday and couldn't tell the difference untill he hit more over a head with a pinstriped tomahawk.

 

Yes, I'm gone. Most of you are happy. But I'll still be richer than any of you will ever hope to achieve in you miserable lifetimes. Remember that while you play with other peoples' money and pretend to know s*** you know nothing about. Pretentious SOBs!

 

PS: If it's any consolation, I agree that I should have been fired. I failed. But so what? Since when has baseball reached refugee status? Did I mention you can go f*** yourselves?

 

Sincerely,

 

Ben Cherington.

(BTW, go f*** yourselves).

 

I like you, Ben, and I believed in you. But you f***ed up, buddy. Sorry. No one ever said being GM was going to be easy.

[Kimmi]

How? Care to elaborate? They got an ace at the deadline and some kick ass hitters are in their roster.

 

The Jays' game plan in building their team was almost identical to that of the Red Sox. They built their team around a strong offense and mediocre pitching, with the idea that their pitching staff should be good enough to keep the team in most games, and then the offense could take over. Reinforcements could be brought in at the trade deadline if the team were in contention, which is exactly what the Jays did.

 

Whether anyone likes that plan or not, it was a sound plan, as evidenced by the Jays' place in the standings. Unfortunately, it didn't work for the Sox, but the Jays are still proof that the plan can and should work.

[Kimmi]

I like you, Ben, and I believed in you. But you f***ed up, buddy. Sorry. No one ever said being GM was going to be easy.

 

In his short term goals, I can understand the opinion that he messed up in 2014 and 2015, although I still won't put the blame on him. For the long term, I think this team is right where he envisioned it to be.

[Bellhorn04]

It remains to be seen what kind of shape this team is in for the near future. We are saddled with the Hanley and Panda contracts. Papi is reaching the end. Our young pitching prospects are all works in progress. Guys like Porcello and Kelly seem like they could go either way. We have no bullpen. We still have a huge amount of uncertainty IMO. The big positives we have are Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart, Vazquez, JBJ hopefully, Castillo hopefully.

[SoxHop]

How? Care to elaborate? They got an ace at the deadline and some kick ass hitters are in their roster. If I want an apologist, I'll talk to a white person on an Indian Reservation.

 

Message from Ben Cherington.

 

To Sox fans who are expressing dismay over the team's current travails: GO f*** YOURSELVES!

 

You satiated ingrates who've gone soft the last 11 years can suck it. You remind me of the obese kid being indulged around in a shopping cart at whatever shopping mall fat, stupid Americans happen to frequent. Tons to choose from. Too bad the gluttony's almost over. 3 championships in 10 years. One was an albatross. This after 86 of futility. I met a Yankee fan yesterday and couldn't tell the difference untill he hit more over a head with a pinstriped tomahawk.

 

Yes, I'm gone. Most of you are happy. But I'll still be richer than any of you will ever hope to achieve in you miserable lifetimes. Remember that while you play with other peoples' money and pretend to know s*** you know nothing about. Pretentious SOBs!

 

PS: If it's any consolation, I agree that I should have been fired. I failed. But so what? Since when has baseball reached refugee status? Did I mention you can go f*** yourselves?

 

Sincerely,

 

Ben Cherington.

(BTW, go f*** yourselves).

 

Thanks for the Championship two years ago Ben. Hanley in left?????????? Come on.........

[a700hitter]

How? Care to elaborate? They got an ace at the deadline and some kick ass hitters are in their roster. If I want an apologist, I'll talk to a white person on an Indian Reservation.

 

Message from Ben Cherington.

 

To Sox fans who are expressing dismay over the team's current travails: GO f*** YOURSELVES!

 

You satiated ingrates who've gone soft the last 11 years can suck it. You remind me of the obese kid being indulged around in a shopping cart at whatever shopping mall fat, stupid Americans happen to frequent. Tons to choose from. Too bad the gluttony's almost over. 3 championships in 10 years. One was an albatross. This after 86 of futility. I met a Yankee fan yesterday and couldn't tell the difference untill he hit more over a head with a pinstriped tomahawk.

 

Yes, I'm gone. Most of you are happy. But I'll still be richer than any of you will ever hope to achieve in you miserable lifetimes. Remember that while you play with other peoples' money and pretend to know s*** you know nothing about. Pretentious SOBs!

 

PS: If it's any consolation, I agree that I should have been fired. I failed. But so what? Since when has baseball reached refugee status? Did I mention you can go f*** yourselves?

 

Sincerely,

 

Ben Cherington.

(BTW, go f*** yourselves).

 

Ben, you lost your dream job. That is very sad. You were given the opportunity that very few are given -- to be the GM of their favorite team. You weren't a former players and you were not related to ownership or any other baseball executive. You worked your way up the ladder from coffee boy. That is almost never done. Then in your second season you won a World Championship and the team won it at Fenway for the first time in 95 years. You were living the dream. You were in baseball heaven. In two years, it is all gone and you have no one to blame but yourself. That must be very hard to bear.

Edited September 5, 2015 by a700hitter

[Kimmi]

It remains to be seen what kind of shape this team is in for the near future. We are saddled with the Hanley and Panda contracts. Papi is reaching the end. Our young pitching prospects are all works in progress. Guys like Porcello and Kelly seem like they could go either way. We have no bullpen. We still have a huge amount of uncertainty IMO. The big positives we have are Betts, Bogaerts, Swihart, Vazquez, JBJ hopefully, Castillo hopefully.

 

I am not saying that the team is good to go as is. We need pitching. That being said, the team has a good core of young players that they can build around, and we should be able to contend next year with the right moves. There are also several more players that are 2-3 years away. This is how you build a good franchise. Ben has done a good job with the farm system, and he managed to win a WS along the way. Not bad, IMO.

[Kimmi]

Ben, you lost your dream job. That is very sad. You were given the opportunity that very few are given -- to be the GM of their favorite team. You weren't a former players and you were not related to ownership or any other baseball executive. You worked your way up the ladder from coffee boy. That is almost never done. Then in your second season you won a World Championship and the team won it at Fenway for the first time in 95 years. You were living the dream. You were in baseball heaven. In two years, it is all gone and you have no one to blame but yourself. That must be very hard to bear.

 

You guys are killing me.

[Hitch]

iortiz....

 

I believe I owe $20 to the charity of your choice.

[sk7326]

In his short term goals, I can understand the opinion that he messed up in 2014 and 2015, although I still won't put the blame on him. For the long term, I think this team is right where he envisioned it to be.

 

I think he actually made bigger mistakes - or for that matter, actual mistakes - in the 2013/4 offseason.

[sk7326]

I am not saying that the team is good to go as is. We need pitching. That being said, the team has a good core of young players that they can build around, and we should be able to contend next year with the right moves. There are also several more players that are 2-3 years away. This is how you build a good franchise. Ben has done a good job with the farm system, and he managed to win a WS along the way. Not bad, IMO.

 

The critics have a point given the number of last place finishes. That said, there is definitely a strain of fandom which preferred 2011 to 2013 - since complaining about not winning is something which many have lots of experience with.

 

This team is certainly not thinking of rebuilding - with the outlook of the position players, that would be batty. Essentially the Sox will go into the 2015/6 offseason in the same place the Cubbies did - bursting with position talent, light-ish on pitching. There is no lucky break like saving Arrieta's career alas, but then they had nobody approximating ERod's promise.

[Kimmi]

I think he actually made bigger mistakes - or for that matter, actual mistakes - in the 2013/4 offseason.

 

I think the biggest mistake made in the 2013 offseason was relying on too many youngsters for 2014 without having a good back up plan. Outside of that, I felt good about both the 2014 and 2015 teams going into the season. In both years, there were a lot of underperformances that I don't think could have been foreseen. I do not think that the FO did a poor job in either of those seasons.

[Kimmi]

The critics have a point given the number of last place finishes. That said, there is definitely a strain of fandom which preferred 2011 to 2013 - since complaining about not winning is something which many have lots of experience with.

 

This team is certainly not thinking of rebuilding - with the outlook of the position players, that would be batty. Essentially the Sox will go into the 2015/6 offseason in the same place the Cubbies did - bursting with position talent, light-ish on pitching. There is no lucky break like saving Arrieta's career alas, but then they had nobody approximating ERod's promise.

 

I really was hoping that the Sox would have finished in 3rd or 4th place this year. The "3 last place finishes in 4 years" argument is almost as bad as the "1918" chant used to be.

 

Again, we have to take whatever Dombrowski says right now with a grain of salt, but he has stated the position players are more or less set. A #1 starter, a back up closer along with a few other pen arms, and this team should be good to go.

[sk7326]

I think the biggest mistake made in the 2013 offseason was relying on too many youngsters for 2014 without having a good back up plan. Outside of that, I felt good about both the 2014 and 2015 teams going into the season. In both years, there were a lot of underperformances that I don't think could have been foreseen. I do not think that the FO did a poor job in either of those seasons.

 

The youngsters to me was less of an issue than assuming recurrences of a couple of seriously lucky breaks (the amazing production from the corners). I'd have sincerely preferred trading for a Justin Upton over clicking your heels and hoping Mike Carp, Daniel Nava and Victorino could spit out that level of work again.