Sox Acquire Porcello, Miley, and Masterson

[cp176]

Bluntness and anger are very very different things. And the point stands. The Sox can hype their own prospects, like every other team, but when uninterested parties are doing the hyping, it's a good idea to listen.

 

Blunt? I guess that it is just a tone thing. You won't get it from me. Here is a question for you. It is legit. I really am interested in what you think. You mentioned in an earlier post something that I wholeheartedly believe in - You have to maintain a solid farm system that produces quality players year in and year out to remain competitive. I am very pleased that we have become World Series winners but I guess selfishly Ii would like to think that if we were producing young talent of high quality that we would at least be able to compete each year. Last to first to last has me doubting some of the quality that we seem to have. I would prefer others to Hamels but I don't see trading some this "talent" as being prohibitive. What are your thoughts? You can be blunt if you like. I just want a team that I can be excited about each season.

[sk7326]

In addition, I hope that I am wrong about XB. But you see I am and have been a fan of the Red Sox for a while. I'll offer my opinion well knowing what any opinion is worth. In the end, I won't be jumping ship. For that matter, I still hope Jackie Bradley can realize all of the potential that all of the scouts said he had. If he could hit, there would be no better option in cf. You don't need a power bat in center field. Hit just a little bit.

 

If you played high school ball for instance, the guys who were future studs were not the dudes who crushed JV. They were the guys who were able to compete at the varsity level as 14 year olds - even if not at a spectacular (or even that good) level. Bogaerts is ahead of where Troy Tulowitzki was as a 22 year old, and most of XB's peers just got to AA. Has the shine of him as a prospect gone down? Well, since he did not have a Mike Trout year, sure it did. But his developmental track record shows evidence of the sort of work ethic and makeup to bet the house on - he has consistently figured out levels where he has been very very young for. Bradley is more questionable because he is so much older - but can simply changing his approach at the plate a little lead to some big gains at the plate? I actually think he can - although it might be with another team.

[seabeachfred]

Why would anyone in their right mind trade XB for Hammels? Especially when there are BETTER options still available through FA.

 

By better options I think you mean Scherzer and Shields.....correct me if I'm wrong. Well if you are in your right mind you can shitcan the first guy because Prune Face is not going to ante up the money needed to sign him, no matter what BS he gave about going over the luxury tax. As f or Shields he's going to want four or five years and money that pruney does not want to pay because the fuzzy owner of the teams doesn't understand that he doesn't decide what a pitcher is worth, the market does. So what does that leave us? Hamels, and, yes I would include XB in a trade for him, and, earth to everyone, it would take more than just Bogaerts to get us Cole.

[seabeachfred]

Santana is gone, but would u have preferred Santana as your number two and say Shields as your number one? I liked the idea as well.

 

If we really want Shields, we have to hurry up IMO, otherwise be prepared to see XB or other top prospect go if we want a No. 1.

 

BTW is it me or our FO apparently seem not that interested to get Shields.

 

I think despite what Prune Face says he simply does not want to go over the luxury tax threshold...and most likely won't. He and his scuzzy buddy Lucchintzy have been busy trying to convince fans that what we have is enough to get us through the bulk of the season.....which is pure BS. If enough ball washers like your "pal" User fall into line (doesn't he always) the front office will think they put one over on the fans. Not you and most of the people around here irotiz. And take 700's advice----put that guy on ignore and keep him there.

[Spudboy]

Sign Shields and start the season with what we have. There are a s*** ton of pitchers available next offseason. Im not selling the franchise's future for Cole f***ing Hammels...I'm sorry

 

Amen Bro.

[Palodios]

And they've been unwilling to do so. The Phillies' GM is notably difficult to negotiate with.

 

We've heard reports that the Phillies are looking for two top prospects for Hamels, and for the other team to pay for the full contract. That's never going to happen. The Cubs and White Sox just spent a ton of money. The Dodgers and Yankees seem like they are much more willing to give up money than talent. I seriously doubt the Phillies are going to find much better than a former #2 prospect in all of baseball, even if they do eat 20-30 million.

[Spudboy]

I have actually read a couple mlb.com columnists predicting Scherzer to the Sox and theorizing that he was their target all along.

 

That would be one well kept secret!

 

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the Sox did not intend to sign Lester. Unless they got him at "their" price.

[mvp 78]

I think despite what Prune Face says he simply does not want to go over the luxury tax threshold...and most likely won't. He and his scuzzy buddy Lucchintzy have been busy trying to convince fans that what we have is enough to get us through the bulk of the season.....which is pure BS. If enough ball washers like your "pal" User fall into line (doesn't he always) the front office will think they put one over on the fans. Not you and most of the people around here irotiz. And take 700's advice----put that guy on ignore and keep him there.

 

How would you know what UN thinks if you have him on ignore? Sometimes it seems that you want to be treated fairly when you won't do so for others with all your muckraking and personal attacks.

 

Always going against the FO is just as silly as "ball washing."

 

Can we all just turn over a new leaf please rather than constantly rehashing old beefs?

[cp176]

If you played high school ball for instance, the guys who were future studs were not the dudes who crushed JV. They were the guys who were able to compete at the varsity level as 14 year olds - even if not at a spectacular (or even that good) level. Bogaerts is ahead of where Troy Tulowitzki was as a 22 year old, and most of XB's peers just got to AA. Has the shine of him as a prospect gone down? Well, since he did not have a Mike Trout year, sure it did. But his developmental track record shows evidence of the sort of work ethic and makeup to bet the house on - he has consistently figured out levels where he has been very very young for. Bradley is more questionable because he is so much older - but can simply changing his approach at the plate a little lead to some big gains at the plate? I actually think he can - although it might be with another team.

 

Very good points. I do think that he will hit. I am still concerned about his ability to field his position based on the sample that we have seen. If he sticks around as our everyday ss, I am ok with that as well. But, if he was the centerpiece around a trade that brought a player in that helped us, that would be fine with me as well. Right now he plays a position in the field that you can't place enough importance upon. Once again - he is worth keeping - I think he will hit. I just don't want him to hurt his team in the field anymore than he wants to.

[mvp 78]

That would be one well kept secret!

 

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that the Sox did not intend to sign Lester. Unless they got him at "their" price.

 

Yup, they were hoping for a blue light special. They read the market wrong and got burned for it.

[sk7326]

We've heard reports that the Phillies are looking for two top prospects for Hamels, and for the other team to pay for the full contract. That's never going to happen. The Cubs and White Sox just spent a ton of money. The Dodgers and Yankees seem like they are much more willing to give up money than talent. I seriously doubt the Phillies are going to find much better than a former #2 prospect in all of baseball, even if they do eat 20-30 million.

 

Now Amaro should not come down from his price in one sense. After all, he is offering 4 cost controlled years at what will be a bargain for at least a couple of them. But if he is intent on cashing in Hamels, he might have to acknowledge the market that is, and not the ideal one. This is not 1996 where a team gave up a good young pitcher and a plus prospect for a mediocre closer (thanks Mariners) or the Astros giving up three starters for two months of Randy Johnson. You look at how comparatively little the Sox got for Lester and the Tigers for Price, and clearly teams are smarter about this sort of thing.

 

To the Red Sox credit, they have a rotation now which - I think - should be able to hang in for a while, so they might be able to look at Cueto during the season when the price might start to fall significantly

[Palodios]

The question is, who will pay for Scherzer and Shields?

 

Are the Yankees willing to spend near A-Rod money for either guy? The current report I've read is that they will be smart and wait for the big wave of pitchers next year -- they certainly seem like they want to go into rebuild mode for a season-ish.

 

The Dodgers have already signed two pitchers this offseason. The Cubs and White Sox already put their money down. The Angels are already loaded with bad contracts, so are the Phillies.

 

The only teams that make sense here are the Giants, Red Sox, Yankeea, Washington and maybe a dark horse like Toronto/NYM.

[BSN07]

The question is, who will pay for Scherzer and Shields?

 

Are the Yankees willing to spend near A-Rod money for either guy? The current report I've read is that they will be smart and wait for the big wave of pitchers next year -- they certainly seem like they want to go into rebuild mode for a season-ish.

 

The Dodgers have already signed two pitchers this offseason. The Cubs and White Sox already put their money down. The Angels are already loaded with bad contracts, so are the Phillies.

 

The only teams that make sense here are the Giants, Red Sox, Yankeea, Washington and maybe a dark horse like Toronto/NYM.

 

Shields market could drop. If it comes down into the 4 year 15-20M AAV range I could see the Sox getting involved.

 

No way Scherzer get's less than the 144M(according to Detroit)/160M(according to Boras). And that's already more than Lester. Just doesn't look like a fit with the Sox.

[Spudboy]

Yup, they were hoping for a blue light special. They read the market wrong and got burned for it.

 

Did you see the Lester Intro presser? He made it clear that when he was traded that his perspective about playing for the Sox had changed.

 

Again, I suspect that this whole thing was by design.

[Bellhorn04]

I think despite what Prune Face says he simply does not want to go over the luxury tax threshold...and most likely won't. He and his scuzzy buddy Lucchintzy have been busy trying to convince fans that what we have is enough to get us through the bulk of the season.....which is pure BS. If enough ball washers like your "pal" User fall into line (doesn't he always) the front office will think they put one over on the fans. Not you and most of the people around here irotiz. And take 700's advice----put that guy on ignore and keep him there.

 

Actually Fred, from what I've read they're already over the tax threshold for 2015. The Panda/Hanley signings tacked on $41 million.

[Bellhorn04]

Shields market could drop. If it comes down into the 4 year 15-20M AAV range I could see the Sox getting involved.

 

Absolutely no way Shields comes anywhere near that cheap.

[Palodios]

Shields market could drop. If it comes down into the 4 year 15-20M AAV range I could see the Sox getting involved.

 

No way Scherzer get's less than the 144M(according to Detroit)/160M(according to Boras). And that's already more than Lester. Just doesn't look like a fit with the Sox.

 

I have said this before, but I am not so sure about Scherzer getting 200M because he isn't marketable. His numbers may sell tickets, but his face certainly won't. Few fans will even be able to pronounce his name for the first year. His playoff numbers have been up and down, landing at a respectable, but not stellar 3.73. He has a fraction of the twitter followers of guys like Lester, Price, Verlander. I know is a stupid way of gauging his marketability, but I just don't believe he brings fans to the stadium. If you don't believe me, ask yourself how many ridiculous Panda hats the Red Sox will be selling this year.

 

If Scherzer can be had for 150-160, I think the Red Sox should be there.

[sk7326]

The question is, who will pay for Scherzer and Shields?

 

Are the Yankees willing to spend near A-Rod money for either guy? The current report I've read is that they will be smart and wait for the big wave of pitchers next year -- they certainly seem like they want to go into rebuild mode for a season-ish.

 

The Dodgers have already signed two pitchers this offseason. The Cubs and White Sox already put their money down. The Angels are already loaded with bad contracts, so are the Phillies.

 

The only teams that make sense here are the Giants, Red Sox, Yankeea, Washington and maybe a dark horse like Toronto/NYM.

 

I think that covers it - at the same time I do think the Royals have to be in the mix for Shields still to a certain degree. It is a lot of money, but the window of opportunity is open and you have to think differently when that is the case.

[redsoxrules]

If Scherzer can be had for 150-160, I think the Red Sox should be there.

 

NWIH that's happening with this current FO

[Palodios]

NWIH that's happening with this current FO

 

That's just an extra 15 million for a guy a year younger than Lester. I don't consider it completely out of the question.

[BSN07]

Absolutely no way Shields comes anywhere near that cheap.

 

It's doubtful but possible. There aren't a ton of fits left. Shields is in an unusual spot I think. His market has been hit pretty good with a bunch of the guys lower than him on the free agent list have signed early and left him with far fewer suitors. And with guys like Scherzer and Zimmerman available in one way or another his market could get even smaller. Just saying it's a possibility.

[MJantomaso]

I like your posts, but I'm deeply disappointed in your change of avatar. Please bring back Kate or something nicer to look at.

 

haha I will see what I can do

[vjcsmoke]

Just read an article that says the Nationals are shopping Zimmerman. This guy has really hit his prime. Being selected to the Allstar game twice, and top 10 in Cy Young voting twice.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zimmejo02.shtml

 

I know there's only 1 year of contract control left on him, but that's exactly why he might be gettable. Should the Red Sox make a move for Zimmerman and hope they can sign him to an extension?

 

http://www.overthemonster.com/2014/12/15/7393467/jordan-zimmermann-trade-rumors-red-sox-nationals

[iortiz]

How would you know what UN thinks if you have him on ignore? Sometimes it seems that you want to be treated fairly when you won't do so for others with all your muckraking and personal attacks.

 

Always going against the FO is just as silly as "ball washing."

 

Can we all just turn over a new leaf please rather than constantly rehashing old beefs?

Well, probably because I quoted him, and some posters do it at times as well and this is how he notices what he is saying.

 

As for the FO, aside the 2013 WS, they have had a terrible execution in the recent years, reason why I think some are pointing it out and I do not see anything wrong in that.

 

As I have said a lot of times, while some posters point out players or the FO, other attack others, like this time.

Edited December 16, 2014 by iortiz

[Palodios]

Just read an article that says the Nationals are shopping Zimmerman. This guy has really hit his prime. Being selected to the Allstar game twice, and top 10 in Cy Young voting twice.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zimmejo02.shtml

 

I know there's only 1 year of contract control left on him, but that's exactly why he might be gettable. Should the Red Sox make a move for Zimmerman and hope they can sign him to an extension?

 

http://www.overthemonster.com/2014/12/15/7393467/jordan-zimmermann-trade-rumors-red-sox-nationals

 

The Nationals are looking for franchise changing young talent. They asked Seattle for Walker. It would take Betts or Xander, and I doubt that would be worth it unless the Red Sox trade and sign Zimmerman immediately.

[mvp 78]

Well, probably because I quoted him, and some posters do it at times as well and this is how he notices what he is saying.

 

As for the FO, aside the 2013 WS, they have had a terrible execution in the recent years, reason why I think some are pointing it out and I do not see anything wrong in that.

 

As I have said a lot of times, while some posters point out players or the FO, other attack others, like this time.

 

My point: Fred, UN, you and others all belittle each other. At the end of the day, just stop pointing fingers and act like grownups. Calling someone a whiner is as much of a personal shot as is calling someone a ballwasher. It all kind of sucks.

 

Sometimes you are quick to be defensive. If someone quotes you and asks a question, it's not a reason to be uppity. Just relax and maybe we can all get along better. Fred goes out of his way to rip on Un. He does this way more than UN does. For the good of the board, it just needs to stop.

 

Being childish might make for an amusing day of posting, but it just drives more people away. We're all Sox fans. We have different opinions. Having different opinions doesn't mean one person is right and one person is wrong. The world doesn't work that way.

 

I'm not trying to attack you, I just think this place would be better if we weren't all at each other's throats all the time.

 

In the end, this post won't make a difference and I'm just pissing in the wind.

[iortiz]

My point: Fred, UN, you and others all belittle each other. At the end of the day, just stop pointing fingers and act like grownups. Calling someone a whiner is as much of a personal shot as is calling someone a ballwasher. It all kind of sucks.

 

Sometimes you are quick to be defensive. If someone quotes you and asks a question, it's not a reason to be uppity. Just relax and maybe we can all get along better. Fred goes out of his way to rip on Un. He does this way more than UN does. For the good of the board, it just needs to stop.

 

Being childish might make for an amusing day of posting, but it just drives more people away. We're all Sox fans. We have different opinions. Having different opinions doesn't mean one person is right and one person is wrong. The world doesn't work that way.

 

I'm not trying to attack you, I just think this place would be better if we weren't all at each other's throats all the time.

 

In the end, this post won't make a difference and I'm just pissing in the wind.

 

I have no problem in discussing about baseball at all, in the end as you say this is about opinions.

 

Problem is that UN? always start this kind of BS calling out others idiots, whiners or whatever, and is not good, do not believe me? look what just happened.

 

I agree, this should not happen.

[mvp 78]

I have no problem in discussing about baseball at all, in the end as you say this is about opinions.

 

Problem is that UN? always start this kind of BS calling out others idiots, whiners or whatever, and is not good, do not believe me? look what just happened.

 

I agree, this should not happen.

 

It's not ALWAYS UN. Fred takes just as many (if not more) unnecessary shots.

[iortiz]

It's not ALWAYS UN. Fred takes just as many (if not more) unnecessary shots.

 

Well my recompilation says the opposite, wait and see.

[iortiz]

The Nationals are looking for franchise changing young talent. They asked Seattle for Walker. It would take Betts or Xander, and I doubt that would be worth it unless the Red Sox trade and sign Zimmerman immediately.

 

Any No 1 SP would take top talent regardless the names involved in a trade. Hopefully we land this arm via FA, the possibility still there.