2014 Offseason Thread

[dupree]

By hook or by crook, Boras tends to get his clients the money they wanted (present value calculation aside). Never doubt the master.

 

We'll see what he does with Xander in a few years.

If Xander don't show something this year then the Sox won't have to worry about paying a Boras price in a few years. No excuses this year for Xander.

[a700hitter]

Wade Davis was a BA top 50 prospect with the Rays for 4 years before turning into a lights out reliever in 2014. Odorizzi was a top 100 prospect that hadn't hit the majors yet. I don't see them as vastly different in value.

 

The trade would probably take one of Bogaerts/Betts/Swihart plus one of the mid-tier pitching prospects. They would have to give up a lot, but not completely selling the farm.

Wade Davis had already proven himself as a so- so starter at best with the Rays who deposited him the pen permanently at the time of the trade. KC took a long shot at him starting and he responded with a 5+ ERA. He was not worth Odirizzi. He was a throw in.

 

If we give up Bogaerts, we might only need to add supporting pieces. Take XB off the table and you will need to part with Betts and swihart. This is Steven Strasburg for god sakes.

[Palodios]

Wade Davis had already proven himself as a so- so starter at best with the Rays who deposited him the pen permanently at the time of the trade. KC took a long shot at him starting and he responded with a 5+ ERA. He was not worth Odirizzi. He was a throw in.

 

Throw-ins don't have ERA's below 1.00 most of the season in a run to the World Series. The guy is talented. Much like all prospects -- like Rizzo-- it just took him time to get there.

[Palodios]

The Rangers just traded their #7, #8, and #20 prospect for Gallardo. Meanwhile, the Brewers send them 4 million back to pay for it all. I don't understand baseball sometimes.

[a700hitter]

Throw-ins don't have ERA's below 1.00 most of the season in a run to the World Series. The guy is talented. Much like all prospects -- like Rizzo-- it just took him time to get there.

 

He's a bullpen piece, not worth a top starting pitching prospect. That trade never gets made 1 for 1. Far from your assumption that I undervalue James Shields, you are the one who is undervaluing him. TB got 2 blue chippers for him, not one as you are saying. Plus, Myers was a #4 prospect -- higher than anyone we have. Davis was an add in. He was and still is a bullpen guy, not worth a top starting pitching prospect. Would you part with Owens for him?

[a700hitter]

The Rangers just traded their #7, #8, and #20 prospect for Gallardo. Meanwhile, the Brewers send them 4 million back to pay for it all. I don't understand baseball sometimes.

This reinforces that you can't get Strasburg for 1 top prospect and add on pieces.

[iortiz]

What do you mean by this? The deals for Sandoval and Hanley were not for top dollar or are you saying that the Sox FO has not paid for pitching with top dollar?

 

I don't get it.

 

Yup, pitching. Just as Pal said

[pruneface]

If I'm the Nationals, I'm in no hurry to trade any of their starters. 1) Having 5 starters is usually not enough these days due to frequent injuries. 2) Why not go for it right now? That Nationals rotation is astounding. 3) They could always get a compensation pick if nothing else. 4)At the very least, I'd wait until the midseason deadline. I'm confident the Sox won't be adding to their rotation before then.

[iortiz]

If i were the Nats I wouldn't trade any of their current SPs either.

 

It's crazy, while our #1 these days is Porcello, their #5 is Fister lol

[cp176]

I agree with you with respect to the Nats. I hope that you are wrong with respect to the Sox.

[mvp 78]

If i were the Nats I wouldn't trade any of their current SPs either.

 

It's crazy, while our #1 these days is Porcello, their #5 is Fister lol

 

Then they lose Fister and Zimmerman at the end of the year for nothing.

[iortiz]

Then they lose Fister and Zimmerman at the end of the year for nothing.

For nothing? Lol

 

If they make the WS, it won't be for nothing. They are in a very good position to win it all. Besides they could easily extend their contracts or go for other arms as well in 2016.

[seabeachfred]

I would certainly keep Betts. As for Swihart and Owens - I don't know. Soon there will be no room at the top for some position players if the sox do not make a move. I doubt seriously that we ever see Vasquez and Swihart together. It just doesn't seem to make any sense. As for Owens - if he was the centerpiece that brought Zimmerman to Boston, that I would do. One proven one not. Scherzer gone. I still am holding out hope. I don't understand why you would spend the kind of $ the Sox have so far on 2 position players and still not bring in the best pitcher that you can. A balance is necessary for sure but it is top quality pitching and defense first for me I guess.

 

cp---everyone who knows me on this board knows I like offense but if you and others have read my posts the past two months it is pitching that I have emphasized, namely getting that No. 1 pitcher that I believe is necessary for a deep penetration in the 2015 post season. The money for Scherzer was ridiculous but that doesn't mean we should cease trying to get that pitcher we need. I just hope the team is still in the hunt for that guy because without him I don't think we have a snowball's chance in hell of getting to the WS this season, and isn't that what we all want?

[jacksonianmarch]

For nothing? Lol

 

If they make the WS, it won't be for nothing. They are in a very good position to win it all. Besides they could easily extend their contracts or go for other arms as well in 2016.

 

They will get a comp pick at least. If they somehow fall from contention, they will have a stable of arms available for trade

[seabeachfred]

I don't know about you, but I am tired of prospects that don't work out. The Sox need to find top tier pitching somewhere, and they clearly aren't paying top dollar on anyone.

 

Prospects like Middlebrooks, Bradley and Bogaerts were either flops, busts or disappointments, and you're right, we don't know how young players will work out, but my opinion of Betts and Swihart are totally different from those o thers. I think they are the real thing and I don't want the Red Sox to trade them and they don't have to. We have a lot of other prospects that are rated higher than what o ther teams could offer for a Hamels or a Zimmermann. Or we can sign Shields and save the players and just spend the money, and maybe some day we will be able to start developing good young pitchers as other teams do. Something is wrong with our developmental department in that regard.

[seabeachfred]

7/210M for Scherzer, to be paid 15M a year for 14 years. Has to be one of the most interesting contract concept I have seen yet.

 

I'd keep Swihart no matter what. I would be more willing to say Betts for Strasburg maybe. I like Betts a lot but he's blocked in the IF and could be replaced easier then say a top of the rotation SP. But with Strasburg you get Boras, which likely means no extension and it will cost 200M+ to sign him on the open market. And with that my interest flys out the window on trading Betts.

 

I'm also reading a rumor that the Brewers are going to make a run on Zimmerman after trading Gallardo earlier today. Zimmerman turned down a pretty big extension offer from the Nats because he wanted to pitch closer to home(Wisconsin). If the Nats deal Zim they won't be dealing anyone else.

 

If we get Strasburg we had better have him for at least three or four years because anything less means he's as good as gone. We have had a miserable record signing Boras' top FA clients. Better trade for Hamels or sign Shields. What confounds me is why Henry, a billionaire, is so damn cheap when it comes to getting top notch starting pitchers. And, yes, I think he owes it to the fans to make amends for his s***** handling of the Lester debacle---and debacle is really a kind way of saying it.

[seabeachfred]

I do not agree. As it is, I think that it could be too late to make a move in July.

 

BSN and others have made a good point in that we could wait until the trade deadline to make a trade for pitching, but what if those pitchers are signed to extensions by their teams, or we are in deep s*** in the standings by August 1, or we can only rent a pitcher for two months? What does that do for us when Porcello and Masterson become FA after this season? You know if Porcello has a big year and wants big money Prune Face will not ante up for him anymore than he anted up for Lester, who was a much better pitcher. Sign Shields or trade for Hamels if the price is right. We need to build a staff that might stay together for more than one year. With Hamels and Shields we'd have two of them for four or five years.

[iortiz]

They will get a comp pick at least. If they somehow fall from contention, they will have a stable of arms available for trade

 

Yeah, that too.

 

As I said, if I were the Nats I wouldnt trade anybody. That rotation is nasty as it is, the best in majors IMO.

[iortiz]

BSN and others have made a good point in that we could wait until the trade deadline to make a trade for pitching, but what if those pitchers are signed to extensions by their teams, or we are in deep s*** in the standings by August 1, or we can only rent a pitcher for two months? What does that do for us when Porcello and Masterson become FA after this season? You know if Porcello has a big year and wants big money Prune Face will not ante up for him anymore than he anted up for Lester, who was a much better pitcher. Sign Shields or trade for Hamels if the price is right. We need to build a staff that might stay together for more than one year. With Hamels and Shields we'd have two of them for four or five years.

 

Agreed Fred.

 

We do not have to drink Cherrys Kool Aid. Sorry and maybe some will get angry but As it is, this rotation is a joke.

Edited January 20, 2015 by iortiz

[User Name]

What "kool aid?" What "kool aid" has Cherington offered? No offense, but that is nonsense. Also, the rotation isn't a joke. It's average, which isn't good enough to be a surefire bet to compete, but the negative hyperbole is unnecesary. The reason "some will get angry" is that what you're saying is nonsense.

[a700hitter]

Agreed Fred.

 

We do not have to drink Cherrys Kool Aid. Sorry and maybe some will get angry but As it is, this rotation is a joke.

Israel, a pair of 4's and a pair of 5's and a 3 is not a good hand for a pitching rotation. I like Porcello, but he is not a #1 ace. If he were, Dombrowski certainly would have kept him and extended him knowing that he would lose Scherzer.

[Palodios]

This reinforces that you can't get Strasburg for 1 top prospect and add on pieces.

 

Quite the opposite. Getting Gallardo for a middling prospect and pieces seemed like a small haul to me.

[Bellhorn04]

Israel, a pair of 4's and a pair of 5's and a 3 is not a good hand for a pitching rotation. I like Porcello, but he is not a #1 ace. If he were, Dombrowski certainly would have kept him and extended him knowing that he would lose Scherzer.

 

Last offseason Dombrowski traded Fister for Ray, Krol, and Lombardozzi. Fister was 8th in Cy Young voting. Maybe Dombrowski is just f***ing up.

[Palodios]

Far from your assumption that I undervalue James Shields, you are the one who is undervaluing him. TB got 2 blue chippers for him, not one as you are saying. Plus, Myers was a #4 prospect -- higher than anyone we have. Davis was an add in. He was and still is a bullpen guy, not worth a top starting pitching prospect. Would you part with Owens for him?

Odorizzi is not in Owens class. Based on where he is ranked, he'd be worth a Ranaudo or Barnes. Clearly valuable pieces, but not in that upper group.

[a700hitter]

Last offseason Dombrowski traded Fister for Ray, Krol, and Lombardozzi. Fister was 8th in Cy Young voting. Maybe Dombrowski is just f***ing up.

The Fister trade was surprising. At that time, he had a lot more dephis rotation. If Porcello pitches like Fister, I will be ecstatic and Tiger fans will want Dombrowki's head on a platter.

[a700hitter]

Odorizzi is not in Owens class. Based on where he is ranked, he'd be worth a Ranaudo or Barnes. Clearly valuable pieces, but not in that upper group.

 

My recollection is that Odorizzi was a pretty highly touted prospect, certainly more highly regarded than Renaudo in the last 3 years.

[a700hitter]

Quite the opposite. Getting Gallardo for a middling prospect and pieces seemed like a small haul to me.

 

Keep saying your Novenas for Strasburg. We might get him someday at the same stage of his career as when we got Mark Prior.

[mvp 78]

What "kool aid?" What "kool aid" has Cherington offered? No offense, but that is nonsense. Also, the rotation isn't a joke. It's average, which isn't good enough to be a surefire bet to compete, but the negative hyperbole is unnecesary. The reason "some will get angry" is that what you're saying is nonsense.

 

I think the only reason some people aren't freaking out is that it looks like this rotation could compete in a weakened AL East. If they are close at the trade deadline, they could pick up another arm then.

 

I think most of us would rather they get someone now, but it's not the end of the world if they don't.

[a700hitter]

I think the only reason some people aren't freaking out is that it looks like this rotation could compete in a weakened AL East. If they are close at the trade deadline, they could pick up another arm then.

 

I think most of us would rather they get someone now, but it's not the end of the world if they don't.

The success of the rotation will depend on Buch and Masterson staying healthy, taking all of their starts and hopefully performing as they did when they had good seasons. That is a crap shoot. If one of them falters, the team will be in trouble. If both repeat last year's performance, the season will be a bust. If they stay healthy and perform well, the team will be competitive.

[Elktonnick]

The Scherzer signing does give Boston another option for a starter that they didn't have before. They never were in on Scherzer in the first place. If they can pry either Zimmermann or Strasburg out of Washington then their rotation will be nothing to sneeze at. If they don't we can always see how the division shakes out. The ALE is so mediocre that the Sox are clearly contenders in a very weak field and could wait until the ASB before retooling for a playoff run.

 

What I fail to understand is why Washington signed Scherzer if they are only going to turn around and trade either Zimmermann or Strasburg. Of the three (Scherzer, Zim or Strasburg) I'd rather have Zimmermann in 2015 on my staff.