The rebuild thread.

[Spudboy]

I am getting tired of hearing and reading the excuse for XB that most guys his age are in AA. The truth is that he has played like a AA player. He has been completely overwhelmed. That's no rap on him. The FO should have recognized the fact that he was out of his league and sent him back to AAA for more seasoning. Contrary to what others have posted, he has not proved everything he needed to prove in the minors. Let him dominate at AAA and learn how to play SS. He didn't dominate at AAA.

 

Blasphemer!!!

 

I think both XB and JBJ were brought along too fast. Not only did neither dominate in the minors, they did not learn how to control the zone and hit MLB quality pitching.

 

And XB has not developed major league defensive skills either.

[a700hitter]

Blasphemer!!!

 

I think both XB and JBJ were brought along too fast. Not only did neither dominate in the minors, they did not learn how to control the zone and hit MLB quality pitching.

 

And XB has not developed major league defensive skills either.

By committing to them for the whole season, they have exposed their shortcomings. Right now, they have to ride it out with these kids as they have lost most of the lustre that they had as prospects. Prior to this season, they would have been nice centerpieces for a Stanton trade. Now, Miami wouldn't consider them.

[Bellhorn04]

There are so few of us posting these days. If it were possible our posts would echo because the place is so empty. Bells, Fred, Spud and I should just do an internet Sox talk show. Spud would be the host/straight man and Bells, me and Fred would be the arguing talking heads. Fred would be the money. The switchboard would light up from people wanting to cuss out Fred. VA Soxfan , you are on the air. Lol!

 

Good one, I like it.

 

The Boston Globe Sox forum is quite entertaining these days, I have to say.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

There are so few of us posting these days. If it were possible our posts would echo because the place is so empty. Bells, Fred, Spud and I should just do an internet Sox talk show. Spud would be the host/straight man and Bells, me and Fred would be the arguing talking heads. Fred would be the money. The switchboard would light up from people wanting to cuss out Fred. VA Soxfan , you are on the air. Lol!

 

A bad season tends to run off the bandwagon fans.

[seabeachfred]

Good one, I like it.

 

The Boston Globe Sox forum is quite entertaining these days, I have to say.

 

Is that the Boston.com Dirt Dogs board?

[Palodios]

The current rumor is Lester to the Dodgers. Some combination of Kemp and/or Pederson. Hopefully it won't be Kemp, the guy hasn't had a good year since 2010.

[Mr Tibbs]

The current rumor is Lester to the Dodgers. Some combination of Kemp and/or Pederson. Hopefully it won't be Kemp, the guy hasn't had a good year since 2010.

 

I really wish they would just keep Lester. I know he has said that even if he is traded he is open to coming back for next year but I just don't see it happening. Once he is gone I think he will stay gone.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

I really wish they would just keep Lester. I know he has said that even if he is traded he is open to coming back for next year but I just don't see it happening. Once he is gone I think he will stay gone.

 

I agree. I think if he's traded, he won't be coming back. Just a hunch I have.

[Behindenemylines]

The current rumor is Lester to the Dodgers. Some combination of Kemp and/or Pederson. Hopefully it won't be Kemp, the guy hasn't had a good year since 2010.

 

Why would the Sox take a big contract like the one Kemp has (Years and dollars)? He too is pushing 30 and has had a series of injuries over the past few seasons. If he is healthy he would probably beat the hell out of Fenway, but that is a big if.

[dupree]

I really wish they would just keep Lester. I know he has said that even if he is traded he is open to coming back for next year but I just don't see it happening. Once he is gone I think he will stay gone.

I wish they would keep him as well. But let me throw the conspiracy theory out there. What if Jon Lester has mentioned to Ben in discussion talks about the possibility of being traded and bringing assets back to the Red Sox then in the off season resigning back with the Red Sox. Jon has said time and time again he wants to be here and finish his career here. He knows that he is a big ticket item and that teams will give a big haul for him if they trade for him. So that being said, what if Lester is looking out for the Sox in the future with the trade and resigning plan because he knows that the team needs outfield/power bats. I'm just spit balling but has anyone thought that maybe this could be a made up deal with the front office and Jon?

[Palodios]

I wish they would keep him as well. But let me throw the conspiracy theory out there. What if Jon Lester has mentioned to Ben in discussion talks about the possibility of being traded and bringing assets back to the Red Sox then in the off season resigning back with the Red Sox. Jon has said time and time again he wants to be here and finish his career here. He knows that he is a big ticket item and that teams will give a big haul for him if they trade for him. So that being said, what if Lester is looking out for the Sox in the future with the trade and resigning plan because he knows that the team needs outfield/power bats. I'm just spit balling but has anyone thought that maybe this could be a made up deal with the front office and Jon?

 

I've thought about it. In reality, it is very likely hat the Red Sox are just screwing around, and aren't interested in signing him. There was a report out this week that the Red Sox haven't increased their offer above 70 million yet, which seems insane to me.

[Bellhorn04]

Is that the Boston.com Dirt Dogs board?

 

It's the same one you've posted on before, Fred. I don't think it's actually called Dirt Dogs though. There is a page called Dirt Dogs in the Globe Sports Section, but what's on that page is headlines and pictures and cartoons and links to other Sox coverage.

[dupree]

Here's my hope for the rest of the year and this off season moves.

 

1st off I'd like to see Stanton here but I don't ever see that. If they trade him the Marlins fanbase is done.

 

Ok this year before thursday's deadline.

 

Trade Andrew Miller to an NL club for anything of mid to high level propect to whatever team is willing to deal. Try to resign in offseason.

 

Trade Jon Lester to the Dodgers for Matt Kemp. Let the Dodgers eat a chuck of Kemp's salary. Resign Lester in the offseason no matter what.

 

Trade Swihart, Doubrant, Carp, and another PTBNL to Philly for Cliff Lee with Philly eating a small bit of Lee's salary.

 

Offseason Moves

 

Make a run at Hanley but the Dodgers with trump any offer a team makes for him. But still it should be looked into.

 

Try to trade for Tulo. Use Bogey as the centerpiece to work out the deal but Colorado prolly will turn down all offers. He is like their Stanton without him no one in the seats.

 

Sign Max Scherzer. It will be a contract in the Zach Greinke or CJ Wilson range he's too old for Kershaw money. But he would be the Ace of the staff.

 

Get WMB healthy we need power in the lineup.

 

Sign Lackey to a 2 year extension. 2yr-26million would seem to be a norm or the Sox.

 

2015 Lineup

 

Vs lefties

Holt CF L

Peddy 2B R

Ortiz DH L

Kemp LF R

Napoli 1B R

Vic RF R

WMB 3B R

Vazquez C R

Bogey SS R

 

Vs righties

Sub Nava for Vic in RF

Sign a left handed hitting backup C

Sign a left handed hitting SS not Stephen Drew

 

2015 Rotation

Scherzer, Lester, Lee, Lackey, & Buch

 

2015 Bullpen

Resign Koji on a 2 year deal

 

I see the Sox' FO turning Ben loose and saying build us a power hitting lineup with great defense and make 1 of the strongest rotations in the majors. Then if anyone goes down they have all the young talented arms on the farm to plug in. Let the bullpen anchored by Koji with maybe Workman being the long relief and adding whatever strong arms they can to fill out the bullpen.

 

I see all the moves as a win-win the farm doesn't have to be traded away for old players so not to sacrifice the future.

[Spitball]

A bad season tends to run off the bandwagon fans.

 

I totally disagree. A bad season tends to run off those who do not want to read a bunch of negative rants instead of intelligent baseball discussion.

 

I have been a loyal fan since the early 1960s and am no way a bandwagon fan. I am not bragging but will match my loyalty against anyone.

[a700hitter]

I totally disagree. A bad season tends to run off those who do not want to read a bunch of negative rants instead of intelligent baseball discussion.

 

I have been a loyal fan since the early 1960s and am no way a bandwagon fan. I am not bragging but will match my loyalty against anyone.

you are here and posting. Lots of bandwaggoners fled. Also, lots of people whose self esteem is too tied up with the team's fortunes have gone into hiding. They tended to be the real obnoxious big mouths. There is a lot of good baseball discussion going on here about the options for the future direction of the team. They will not participate in those discussion s, because their go to trump card that "the Front Office knows best" really doesn't hold water after this season, and without that conversation-stopper they are to cowardly to argue their cases on the merits.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

I totally disagree. A bad season tends to run off those who do not want to read a bunch of negative rants instead of intelligent baseball discussion.

 

I have been a loyal fan since the early 1960s and am no way a bandwagon fan. I am not bragging but will match my loyalty against anyone.

So, you're proving my point. You're here.

Thank you.

[seabeachfred]

you are here and posting. Lots of bandwaggoners fled. Also, lots of people whose self esteem is too tied up with the team's fortunes have gone into hiding. They tended to be the real obnoxious big mouths. There is a lot of good baseball discussion going on here about the options for the future direction of the team. They will not participate in those discussion s, because their go to trump card that "the Front Office knows best" really doesn't hold water after this season, and without that conversation-stopper they are to cowardly to argue their cases on the merits.

 

That sums it up perfectly Ted. And we all know who they are, don't we? Especially one guy who went off the deep end on Bogey, Bradley and Drew. Now that we see how this has turned out he is in hiding. He will return one of these days but I will be remind him of his miserable predictions when he panned those of us who took a different tack and have been proven correct. You have to stay and face the music one way or the o ther. Hell, we all f*** up royally from time to time. Admit it and move on, hoping next time you call it right.

[BigPapi]

With his 0 for 5 performance today, it seems like brock holt indeed has hit a wall and is slumping. In his last 5 games, he is hitting .050 (1-20) and hasn't had a hit his last two games. While every player goes into slumps, lets see if he can turn things around after hitting this wall and doesn't end up spiraling downward for most of the 50 plus remaining games.

[Palodios]

News from the morning.

 

Apparently Lester is getting hot, and is likely to be traded. Andrew Miller is also getting lots of calls, and might be the best lefty reliever available.

 

The other news is that the 40 man roster is getting cramped, and the Sox will need to deal with a roster crunch. Tulo talked about getting traded to the Red Sox recently. It seems more and more likely that they will stockpile prospects now, and trade them for a cornerstone player like Tulo, Hamels or Stanton.

[jacksonianmarch]

Look at the bright side. It looks like you'll have a protected pick in the 2015 draft.

[jacksonianmarch]

Sox now open to dealing Lackey too. This might be the most epic rebuild of a championship team since the 1998 Marlins sold off everyone who won the title in 97. If the sox deal off Lester and Lackey, the only starters with big league experience under contract would be....

 

Clay Buchholz

Felix Doubront

Rubby de la Rosa

Allan Webster

 

And if the sox aren't willing to commit long term to Lester, then they wont be willing to go far for Shields, Scherzer, etc. This is going to be a full out rebuild

[Palodios]

Sox now open to dealing Lackey too. This might be the most epic rebuild of a championship team since the 1998 Marlins sold off everyone who won the title in 97. If the sox deal off Lester and Lackey, the only starters with big league experience under contract would be....

 

If the Red Sox deal both Lester and Lackey, they are getting top 20 prospects back for each of them. The 2015 rotation would look something more like this:

 

Taijuan Walker

Julio Urias

Some veteran signing

Rubby De La Rosa

Alan Webster

[BigPapi]

If the Red Sox deal both Lester and Lackey, they are getting top 20 prospects back for each of them. The 2015 rotation would look something more like this:

 

Taijuan Walker

Julio Urias

Some veteran signing

Rubby De La Rosa

Alan Webster

 

Let me get this straight. You see an 18 year old julio urias starting for the boston red sox next year?

[jacksonianmarch]

And Pal, that rotation gets you back to the basement next yr

[a700hitter]

And Pal, that rotation gets you back to the basement next yr

Agreed!

[Palodios]

Let me get this straight. You see an 18 year old julio urias starting for the boston red sox next year?

 

I'm not really a prospect expert. Swap him with Bundy or another top pitching prospect from a contender if you'd like.

 

And Pal, that rotation gets you back to the basement next yr

 

Maybe, maybe not. Teams like Oakland and Tampa have gone the route of using a rotation of entirely top-end pitching prospects, and it has gone well for them. It also means there will be plenty of money in the organization to fill the gaps.

[jacksonianmarch]

Tampa and Oakland hadn't filled their rotation with unproven pitchers in every spot. In 2013, they had Colon anchoring the rotation with Parker coming off a heck of a rookie campaign. Griffin was the 3 and he'd gone 7-1 in 83IP in 2012. And Tom Milone was coming off a 13 win campaign in 2012 as the 4.

 

Tampa is entirely different. Yes, they're all home grown guys, but they didn't all reach the majors at the same time. Price debuted in 2008. Hellickson in 2010. Moore in 2011. Cobb in 2011. Archer in 2012. Each pitcher didn't get into the rotation full time until the following yr.

[jacksonianmarch]

And who's the veteran signing? You'd need an ace. And Henry isn't willing to pay for one unless he trades for one

[a700hitter]

I have said it before. Three rookies in any rotation would result in a last place team and a debacle of a season. Two rookies would guarantee 4th place and missing the playoffs. If De La Rosa gets some good big league experience over the remainder of the season, they could be successful pairing him with a rookie, but two rookies with no track record equals failure.

[sk7326]

If the Red Sox deal both Lester and Lackey, they are getting top 20 prospects back for each of them. The 2015 rotation would look something more like this:

 

Taijuan Walker

Julio Urias

Some veteran signing

Rubby De La Rosa

Alan Webster

 

No chance, and that is a bad team. De La Rosa has shown he deserves to be a starter in 2015. Webster has not. One of the good things about this market is the fan pressure (and economic pressure) will force the front office to still be aggressive. Fans should not tolerate a full out rebuild, certainly not at the prices they get charged.