The rebuild thread.

[SoxFanForsyth]

@nickcafardo 35m

The Red Sox were one of a few teams to watch Cole Hamels earlier this week. Hamels has four years remaining on his contract

 

 

makes sense, it would allow them to move Lester and/or Lackey for offense.

 

I guess. If you're going to give Hamels 4/90 with a 5th year club option to make it 5/110, why not just give Lester 5/120? At least you know what you're getting and you have a history with him.

 

If they're going to go this route (trade Lester and trade for a different SP), go after Cliff Lee and limit the years on the books to 2.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I bet it's Betts

 

I agree, and I hate the idea.

 

The Sox are finally rolling again and it's going to get all sorts of thrown out of whack. If it wasn't for Betts, the Sox don't make that late comeback against the ChiSox. Not sure who else they can send down though.

[a700hitter]

I bet it's Betts

Gomes has been in some trade rumors. Edited July 14, 2014 by a700hitter

[SoxFanForsyth]

Homes has been in some trade rumors.

 

wassup homes?

[a700hitter]

wassup homes?

I hate auto correct.

[Bellhorn04]

Gomes has been in some trade rumors.

 

Yes, Gomes is a must-trade, along with Peavy.

[reYoukilis]

Yes, Gomes is a must-trade, along with Peavy.

If this recent winning trend continues I doubt theyll be any trading. If there is itll be to get even younger and to basically throw in the towel.

[win red sox]

I guess. If you're going to give Hamels 4/90 with a 5th year club option to make it 5/110, why not just give Lester 5/120? At least you know what you're getting and you have a history with him.

 

If they're going to go this route (trade Lester and trade for a different SP), go after Cliff Lee and limit the years on the books to 2.

 

Because I guess Lester and Lackey are probably your best trade assets and due to lack of power at the major and minor league level trading one or both of them is their best chance to secure a power bat. Just a hunch, but I think the discount that Lester was offering is gone and I doubt 5/120 gets it done. It will be pretty interesting to see if the Sox stick to their guns in reference to signing long term extensions to players over 30.

[BigPapi]

I know this is off topic but did anyone know that in 2006 the tigers decided to take andrew miller at pick number 6 over clayton kershaw who went the pick after? I thought that was interesting.

[Jasonbay44]

I know this is off topic but did anyone know that in 2006 the tigers decided to take andrew miller at pick number 6 over clayton kershaw who went the pick after? I thought that was interesting.

 

Yeah Miller looked like he was going to be a stud around then and he has turned into a solid reliever. The Tigers traded Andrew Miller (Along with Cameron Maybin and Burke Badenhop) for Miguel Cabrera so I think it worked out for them either way lol.

[a700hitter]

Yeah Miller looked like he was going to be a stud around then and he has turned into a solid reliever. The Tigers traded Andrew Miller (Along with Cameron Maybin and Burke Badenhop) for Miguel Cabrera so I think it worked out for them either way lol.

Not a bad trade.

[Palodios]

There has been some talk of the Nationals trading Denard Span to make room in their outfield and opening payroll space. Span is pretty much what the Red Sox wanted out of Bradley -- .700 OPS, 20 steals, excellent defense in centerfield.

 

I wonder if a three team trade involving Peavy might be worthwhile here.

[Bellhorn04]

There has been some talk of the Nationals trading Denard Span to make room in their outfield and opening payroll space. Span is pretty much what the Red Sox wanted out of Bradley -- .700 OPS, 20 steals, excellent defense in centerfield.

 

I wonder if a three team trade involving Peavy might be worthwhile here.

 

Bradley has a 1.5 WAR compared to Span's 1.8 so he's been pretty close.

[d-money]

I want lester to stay with the sox.If they trade him they better get a really good package of prospects.

[jd98]

Looking at next year, since I'm bored and given up on this year, here's what the team could look like without any trades or signings.

DH-Ortiz, C-Vazquez, 1B-Napoli, 2B-Pedroia, SS-Bogaerts, 3B-Middlebrooks/Holt, LF-Nava/Holt, CF-JBJ, RF-Victorino

SP-Lackey, Buchholz, Workman, DeLaRosa, Doubront?

RP-Mujica, Tazawa, ??, ??, ??, ??

 

The offense is not much different than this year, which could be bad since this year has sucked, but it wasn't supposed to suck since it's not much different than 2013, so who knows.

 

Pitching needs to replace Lester (maybe with Lester), and much of the bullpen including closer.

 

The good news is that the above team is about $67 million less than the current team (Nava, Doubront, Tazawa, Herrera, and Carp are arbitration eligible, so I added about $5 million to keep the first 3). Plenty of money to sign a top pitcher, fill out the bullpen, and still add a big bat. Also, over $55 million possibly coming off the books after next year (even keeping Ortiz for $10 million), in Napoli, Victorino, Buchholz (team option), Mujica, and Adrian Gonzalez. But also lose 500k Lackey. We'll definitely see how good the front office is these next 2 years. Tons of flexibility.

 

One problem is the team seems to be totally against Bogaerts at SS, so then they'll have to acquire (and overpay) a SS. I wouldn't be at all surprised now if they resign Drew.

 

Edit: I guess they could play Holt full time at SS, but then would lose his versatility.

Edited July 16, 2014 by jd98

[sk7326]

Looking at next year, since I'm bored and given up on this year, here's what the team could look like without any trades or signings.

DH-Ortiz, C-Vazquez, 1B-Napoli, 2B-Pedroia, SS-Bogaerts, 3B-Middlebrooks/Holt, LF-Nava/Holt, CF-JBJ, RF-Victorino

SP-Lackey, Buchholz, Workman, DeLaRosa, Doubront?

RP-Mujica, Tazawa, ??, ??, ??, ??

 

The offense is not much different than this year, which could be bad since this year has sucked, but it wasn't supposed to suck since it's not much different than 2013, so who knows.

 

Pitching needs to replace Lester (maybe with Lester), and much of the bullpen including closer.

 

The good news is that the above team is about $67 million less than the current team (Nava, Doubront, Tazawa, Herrera, and Carp are arbitration eligible, so I added about $5 million to keep the first 3). Plenty of money to sign a top pitcher, fill out the bullpen, and still add a big bat. Also, over $55 million possibly coming off the books after next year (even keeping Ortiz for $10 million), in Napoli, Victorino, Buchholz (team option), Mujica, and Adrian Gonzalez. But also lose 500k Lackey. We'll definitely see how good the front office is these next 2 years. Tons of flexibility.

 

One problem is the team seems to be totally against Bogaerts at SS, so then they'll have to acquire (and overpay) a SS. I wouldn't be at all surprised now if they resign Drew.

 

Edit: I guess they could play Holt full time at SS, but then would lose his versatility.

 

Sox are a huge bounceback play for next year ... considering the youth they are playing and the likely improvement. The closer thing is a non-issue ... they will find somebody if Uehara is too rich for their bloodl. I suspect they will move X to SS, possibly still this season. They signed Drew because 3B was a disaster for them ... no reason to play him if contention is not realistic. The team is not far away at all. Sox had 2 of the AL's top dozen position players last season - between Bradley's slow start (and the Sox Sizemore dithering) and Victorino's absence that has been a huge failure. Take the replacement of a 2-3 win catcher (warts and all) with the tattered remains of AJ Pierzynski and you had even more dropoff. But there are signs of life on all of those fronts.

[seabeachfred]

Looking at next year, since I'm bored and given up on this year, here's what the team could look like without any trades or signings.

DH-Ortiz, C-Vazquez, 1B-Napoli, 2B-Pedroia, SS-Bogaerts, 3B-Middlebrooks/Holt, LF-Nava/Holt, CF-JBJ, RF-Victorino

SP-Lackey, Buchholz, Workman, DeLaRosa, Doubront?

RP-Mujica, Tazawa, ??, ??, ??, ??

 

The offense is not much different than this year, which could be bad since this year has sucked, but it wasn't supposed to suck since it's not much different than 2013, so who knows.

 

Pitching needs to replace Lester (maybe with Lester), and much of the bullpen including closer.

 

The good news is that the above team is about $67 million less than the current team (Nava, Doubront, Tazawa, Herrera, and Carp are arbitration eligible, so I added about $5 million to keep the first 3). Plenty of money to sign a top pitcher, fill out the bullpen, and still add a big bat. Also, over $55 million possibly coming off the books after next year (even keeping Ortiz for $10 million), in Napoli, Victorino, Buchholz (team option), Mujica, and Adrian Gonzalez. But also lose 500k Lackey. We'll definitely see how good the front office is these next 2 years. Tons of flexibility.

 

One problem is the team seems to be totally against Bogaerts at SS, so then they'll have to acquire (and overpay) a SS. I wouldn't be at all surprised now if they resign Drew.

 

Edit: I guess they could play Holt full time at SS, but then would lose his versatility.

 

Mujica in the bullpen? Maybe Drew again at shortstop? Doubrant in the starting rotation? No Lester? Well we can then kiss off 2015 as well. Those three I mentioned have to be nowhere near Fenway Park next season and better yes, if they could be made to disappear sometime this month.

[a700hitter]

I am not sure whether this move indicate that the Sox will be buyers. LOL!

Red Sox Acquire Ryan Verdugo From Royals For Cash

 

Posted by Jeff Todd on Wednesday Jul 16th at 2:57pm

Here are the day’s minor moves:

The Red Sox have acquired lefty Ryan Verdugo from the Royals in exchange for cash considerations, Kansas City*announced on Twitter. The 27-year-old has only one MLB start under his belt — it did not go well — and has spent most of the last four seasons in the upper minors. Through 46 2/3 frames over 9 starts this year, he owns a 4.24 ERA with 8.5 K/9 and 2.7 BB/9.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I am not sure whether this move indicate that the Sox will be buyers. LOL!

 

Organizational depth, I would say. Probably going to fill in for Owens in AA when he gets promoted.

[reYoukilis]

Sox are a huge bounceback play for next year ... considering the youth they are playing and the likely improvement. The closer thing is a non-issue ... they will find somebody if Uehara is too rich for their bloodl. I suspect they will move X to SS, possibly still this season. They signed Drew because 3B was a disaster for them ... no reason to play him if contention is not realistic. The team is not far away at all. Sox had 2 of the AL's top dozen position players last season - between Bradley's slow start (and the Sox Sizemore dithering) and Victorino's absence that has been a huge failure. Take the replacement of a 2-3 win catcher (warts and all) with the tattered remains of AJ Pierzynski and you had even more dropoff. But there are signs of life on all of those fronts.

Closer a non issue? I dont think so. Weve been lucky with Papelbon and now Uehara, we could just as easily run into a bad streak of not finding a good one.

[sk7326]

Closer a non issue? I dont think so. Weve been lucky with Papelbon and now Uehara, we could just as easily run into a bad streak of not finding a good one.

 

We have been blessed with a great closer - but there is no reason to spend a ton of money on the position. Closers are like running backs in football - good to have, but very very fungible. (applies to relievers in general) Teams like Oakland and Tampa have shown this, there are many exhumable corpses that can be made into effective closer sorts.

[Behindenemylines]

Unless the Sox come out of the All-Star break on fire they will be sellers and we will see a lot more of the younger players. Remember even if they do trade Uehara they could always bring him back next year. He is playing year to year at this stage in his career and might want to come back to Boston for a year.

[a700hitter]

Looking back, Cherington says that he “didn’t do a good enough job building a complete offense.” Though the team felt good about things heading into the season, says Cherington, the offensive production has been missing even though the pitching has been good enough to win.

I have to agree with him. Taking accountability is admirable. He knows that his piss has not been excellent.

[Palodios]

The Padres got a top 100 prospect for Huston Street. It seems to me that Koji might be even more valuable because of park factors.

[sk7326]

The Padres got a top 100 prospect for Huston Street. It seems to me that Koji might be even more valuable because of park factors.

 

It is possible, although age and resign probability considerations impact that. But I'd not hesitate to deal him if a good price came up. At the end of the day reliever for "good prospect" is almost always a good idea.

[Bellhorn04]

The Padres got a top 100 prospect for Huston Street. It seems to me that Koji might be even more valuable because of park factors.

 

Pal, you've been preaching that we're not out of it. If we're truly not out of it, trading Koji would certainly hurt any chances we have.

[Palodios]

Pal, you've been preaching that we're not out of it. If we're truly not out of it, trading Koji would certainly hurt any chances we have.

 

I'm on both sides of the fence. I want them to either trade the whole team, or go all in. I don't want to wallow in self-misery with guys who aren't going to be here next year.

 

They have a week to give the front office a direction to move towards.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm on both sides of the fence. I want them to either trade the whole team, or go all in. I don't want to wallow in self-misery with guys who aren't going to be here next year.

 

They have a week to give the front office a direction to move towards.

 

Right on...that position makes sense.

[sk7326]

Right on...that position makes sense.

 

I think the Sox can play both sides of the fence here. The division is bad and totally winnable. Sox need to go 41-25 the rest of the way to get to 85 wins, which is a total that gets you in the ballpark to win the division (obviously would like more, but showing this is not a crazy ask). The question I think is whether you think the kids are their best path to victory - an argument you absolutely can make. Trading Uehara I don't think is preferred, but he is a very movable chip and a position which can be replaced relatively easily. (not without risk)

 

I think Oakland in 2001 did these sort of maneuvers - it is being opportunistic while still trying to add smartly. I don't mind the rebuild, but I worry the franchise is a bit too dogmatic about player salaries to avoid being cheap unnecessarily.

[reYoukilis]

I think the Sox can play both sides of the fence here. The division is bad and totally winnable. Sox need to go 41-25 the rest of the way to get to 85 wins, which is a total that gets you in the ballpark to win the division (obviously would like more, but showing this is not a crazy ask). The question I think is whether you think the kids are their best path to victory - an argument you absolutely can make. Trading Uehara I don't think is preferred, but he is a very movable chip and a position which can be replaced relatively easily. (not without risk)

 

I think Oakland in 2001 did these sort of maneuvers - it is being opportunistic while still trying to add smartly. I don't mind the rebuild, but I worry the franchise is a bit too dogmatic about player salaries to avoid being cheap unnecessarily.

At this juncture, if we dont make the playoffs we didnt deserve it. I dont want to mortgage the future to make the playoffs. So yes lets do it w/the kids because if it works, and by that I mean become respectable, not winning the WS or even making the playoffs, our future will look bright. Right now winning is like making the playoffs to me.

 

However, if we do make the playoffs with what we got, wed be scary SOB's.