Sox land Pierzynski

[mvp 78]

@PeteAbe: Pierzynski doing a call with #RedSox writers. "This isn't my team," he said. Says he just wants to fit in.

 

Take that, SFF!

[BornToRun]

@PeteAbe: Pierzynski doing a call with #RedSox writers. "This isn't my team," he said. Says he just wants to fit in.

 

Take that, SFF!

@PeteAbe: rumors that Pierzynski made previous statement while taking a piss in Dustin Pedroia's coffee.

 

/sarcasm

[marklmw]

@PeteAbe: rumors that Pierzynski made previous statement while taking a piss in Dustin Pedroia's coffee.

 

/sarcasm

^Very Funny BTR

[RedSoxNC84]

Wonder what this guy's gonna look like with a beard

[sk7326]

Sub .300 OBP, 11 unintentional walks in 503 PAs, making Middlebrooks look like Adam Dunn. Especially when compared to the stunningly reasonable deal Salty landed with Miami, not a great use of $8M. That said, short hitch and clearly keeping the seat warm for somebody like Vasquez. But this ain't Yadier Molina back there, and it is hard to argue that he really is an improvement over Lavarnway especially for the money.

[Bellhorn04]

Sub .300 OBP, 11 unintentional walks in 503 PAs, making Middlebrooks look like Adam Dunn. Especially when compared to the stunningly reasonable deal Salty landed with Miami, not a great use of $8M. That said, short hitch and clearly keeping the seat warm for somebody like Vasquez. But this ain't Yadier Molina back there, and it is hard to argue that he really is an improvement over Lavarnway especially for the money.

 

You're saying he's not much better defensively than Lavarnway?

[sk7326]

You're saying he's not much better defensively than Lavarnway?

 

Basically he's not really an improvement over Saltalamacchia, aside from not having to pay him for more than a year. Is that better defensively than Lavarnway - yes. Is it some reason to do cartwheels over spending MORE this year on the catcher position than last season? Not at all.

 

In the grand scheme of things, this will not ruin our summah - maybe he is a win or two worse than Salty, maybe less than that. But it is not a very efficient use of $8M, especially when the Marlins for $1M less of AAV got a better player. The Ruiz deal looks even ghastlier for the Phillies btw.

[Bellhorn04]

In the grand scheme of things, this will not ruin our summah - maybe he is a win or two worse than Salty, maybe less than that. But it is not a very efficient use of $8M, especially when the Marlins for $1M less of AAV got a better player.

 

Not a good argument. We're on the hook for one year instead of three. Why would it be good to give Salty 3 years when they're obviously trying to bridge to the prospects?

[sk7326]

Not a good argument. We're on the hook for one year instead of three. Why would it be good to give Salty 3 years when they're obviously trying to bridge to the prospects?

 

I was noting the AAV just to put the players in perspective. But yes, the plus is we are only on the hook for one year. My take is - if you are going to just have a stopgap for a year while waiting for a more permanent solution, which was a totally defensible position btw ... I think Lavarnway-Ross is much more prudent use of resources. Lavarnway is a poor defender, but so is Pierzynski. I just find this is 8M spent on the 2014 payroll for no apparent reason.

[Bellhorn04]

I was noting the AAV just to put the players in perspective. But yes, the plus is we are only on the hook for one year. My take is - if you are going to just have a stopgap for a year while waiting for a more permanent solution, which was a totally defensible position btw ... I think Lavarnway-Ross is much more prudent use of resources. Lavarnway is a poor defender, but so is Pierzynski. I just find this is 8M spent on the 2014 payroll for no apparent reason.

 

Pierzynski was highly recommended by Nieves. He should be a good judge of the situation IMO.

[User Name]

I was noting the AAV just to put the players in perspective. But yes, the plus is we are only on the hook for one year. My take is - if you are going to just have a stopgap for a year while waiting for a more permanent solution, which was a totally defensible position btw ... I think Lavarnway-Ross is much more prudent use of resources. Lavarnway is a poor defender, but so is Pierzynski. I just find this is 8M spent on the 2014 payroll for no apparent reason.

 

It really isn't, considering the extreme likelihood that Lavarnway flames out and then you have to spend money AND prospects to find a replacement mid-year.

[sk7326]

It really isn't, considering the extreme likelihood that Lavarnway flames out and then you have to spend money AND prospects to find a replacement mid-year.

 

But what is flaming out really? At a position where replacement level is being able to roll out of bed without turning your ankle (and Pierzynski wasn't a whole lot better than that a year ago), the threshold is very very low. And with the bleating about poor defense from last year's starter - the replacement option is more of the same with far less actual upside. As noted earlier, in the grand scheme of things it is not much. Boston's 2014 fate will be driven by injuries and how Bogaerts and Bradley are ready to deal with varsity level work - but at catcher it was a very expensive lateral-at-best move.

[User Name]

But what is flaming out really? At a position where replacement level is being able to roll out of bed without turning your ankle (and Pierzynski wasn't a whole lot better than that a year ago), the threshold is very very low. And with the bleating about poor defense from last year's starter - the replacement option is more of the same with far less actual upside. As noted earlier, in the grand scheme of things it is not much. Boston's 2014 fate will be driven by injuries and how Bogaerts and Bradley are ready to deal with varsity level work - but at catcher it was a very expensive lateral-at-best move.

 

The problem is that you're both discounting the impact of a catcher on a pitching staff, and overplaying Salty's very mild defensive improvement. Nieves is the guy with the biggest hard-on for Vasquez, and he was the one to recommend AJ as a bridge option to his binky. There's something there that stats can't (and they're not very good at valuing catchers) identify.

[marklmw]

The problem is that you're both discounting the impact of a catcher on a pitching staff, and overplaying Salty's very mild defensive improvement. Nieves is the guy with the biggest hard-on for Vasquez, and he was the one to recommend AJ as a bridge option to his binky. There's something there that stats can't (and they're not very good at valuing catchers) identify.

 

The important thing is that our overall defense at the catching position improved a lot. What makes the McCann signing such an overpayment was both AAV and number of years for a player that only plays 66% of the time. I agree that A.J. is being overpaid ... but probably only by 2 million. By some metrics he is high on the list for defensive capabilities. Let's move on to more pressing matters.

[jacksonianmarch]

Fangraphs has Salty and AJ nearly identical defensively. Offensively, last season was Salty's best yr and was a below average year from AJ. Pierzynski had a 2.1% walk rate. Salty had a 9.1% walk rate. Pierzynski saw 1728 pitches in 529PA. Salty saw 1892 pitches in 470 PA. That's a difference of 0.8 pitches per PA, or about 4 pitches per game. Doesn't sound like much, but when you're replacing Ells and Drew with 2 rookies and figure to be giving a guy like Middlebrooks a long look, you're talking about decreasing the "grinding" nature of your team. The sox were a f***ing buzzsaw this past yr because each guy saw a ton of pitches. We can go down the line...

 

Ells- 3.9P/PA

Victorino- 3.8P/PA

Pedroia- 4.1P/PA

Ortiz- 3.9P/PA

Drew- 4.1P/PA

Salty- 4.0P/PA

 

The list goes on. The sox had the highest position player WAR of any team by far (36.6 is 6.3 higher than the next team, the Rays). Ells (5.8), Drew (3.4), and Salty (3.6) account for 35% of your team's WAR from 2013. Thus far, you've replaced it with 1.6 WAR in Pierzynski. You are hoping Bogaerts, JBJ, and Middlebrooks can make up the difference. It may work, it may not.

[mvp 78]

Jacko, JBJ and Xander both "grind out" at bats as well as Ells and Drew. Stop grasping for straws.

[Behindenemylines]

Fangraphs has Salty and AJ nearly identical defensively. Offensively, last season was Salty's best yr and was a below average year from AJ. Pierzynski had a 2.1% walk rate. Salty had a 9.1% walk rate. Pierzynski saw 1728 pitches in 529PA. Salty saw 1892 pitches in 470 PA. That's a difference of 0.8 pitches per PA, or about 4 pitches per game. Doesn't sound like much, but when you're replacing Ells and Drew with 2 rookies and figure to be giving a guy like Middlebrooks a long look, you're talking about decreasing the "grinding" nature of your team. The sox were a f***ing buzzsaw this past yr because each guy saw a ton of pitches. We can go down the line...

 

Ells- 3.9P/PA

Victorino- 3.8P/PA

Pedroia- 4.1P/PA

Ortiz- 3.9P/PA

Drew- 4.1P/PA

Salty- 4.0P/PA

 

The list goes on. The sox had the highest position player WAR of any team by far (36.6 is 6.3 higher than the next team, the Rays). Ells (5.8), Drew (3.4), and Salty (3.6) account for 35% of your team's WAR from 2013. Thus far, you've replaced it with 1.6 WAR in Pierzynski. You are hoping Bogaerts, JBJ, and Middlebrooks can make up the difference. It may work, it may not.

 

A good bit of the $panks WAR in 2013 will be playing in Seattle in 2014. Besides going deep into October is about pitching and the $panks still have a lot of holes in their staff.

[reYoukilis]

I like this signing and I hated Pierzynski. I live in Texas so saw him alot and though he's ornery I think he's going to be good for this team.

 

Having said that, living in Texas, other than the reported tiff he and Peavey had when with the White Sox, when he was in Texas he stopped being Yu Darvish's catcher because of a tiff they had too.

 

Something to think about. Personally, in the case of Darvish I think it was about Darvish's overreliance on the perfect pitch vs throwing strikes, something he was definitely known to be guilty of. So if thats true I agree with him.

 

But also think Pierzynski was clutch and ready for the big moment.

[a700hitter]

I like this signing and I hated Pierzynski. I live in Texas so saw him alot and though he's ornery I think he's going to be good for this team.

 

Having said that, living in Texas, other than the reported tiff he and Peavey had when with the White Sox, when he was in Texas he stopped being Yu Darvish's catcher because of a tiff they had too.

 

Something to think about. Personally, in the case of Darvish I think it was about Darvish's overreliance on the perfect pitch vs throwing strikes, something he was definitely known to be guilty of. So if thats true I agree with him.

 

But also think Pierzynski was clutch and ready for the big moment.

A.J. is a solid pro who plays the game hard and smart. Today's pitchers need a kick in the ass. Too bad for them if they don't like to hear it when they suck.

[SoxSport]

Somewhere I posted some results from an analysis at SOSH which showed Salty to be an inferior pitch framer/caller compared to Ross, McCann and others--AJP excluded in analysis. That was evident to me just watching games caught by Salty and Ross. I don't know about the rest of the defensive stats.

 

Salty's errors led to 2 World Series losses. That surely made a big impression on the management.

Edited December 9, 2013 by SoxSport

[Palodios]

A.J. is a solid pro who plays the game hard and smart. Today's pitchers need a kick in the ass. Too bad for them if they don't like to hear it when they suck.

 

I don't think this necessarily applies to most of the rotation. Lester is always the first to say when he sucked... even on days when he threw a quality start out there. He got pissed after missed calls from Salty's pitch framing, but showed he was a very different guy with Ross behind the plate in the playoffs. Peavy and Lackey are about as animated on the mound as any pitchers I've ever seen.

 

Doubront and Buchholz could use a bit more maturity though.

[a700hitter]

I don't think this necessarily applies to most of the rotation. Lester is always the first to say when he sucked... even on days when he threw a quality start out there. He got pissed after missed calls from Salty's pitch framing, but showed he was a very different guy with Ross behind the plate in the playoffs. Peavy and Lackey are about as animated on the mound as any pitchers I've ever seen.

 

Doubront and Buchholz could use a bit more maturity though.

Every once in a while Lester needs a kick in the ass to stop bitching at the umps and challenge the hitters. It was not a big problem this year, but I welcome a big outspoken no nonsense catcher who will get in a pitcher's face. Fisk was like that.

[seabeachfred]

Every once in a while Lester needs a kick in the ass to stop bitching at the umps and challenge the hitters. It was not a big problem this year, but I welcome a big outspoken no nonsense catcher who will get in a pitcher's face. Fisk was like that.

 

If "Ski" fits in with the team it could be a big plus for the Red Sox. He is tough and calls a good game and he is pretty good man at bat in the clutch. The worry is whether he will interface with his teammates the way Salty did. Face it, Jarrod was pathetic in framing pitches and he cost our pitchers a lot of strikes, but OTOH he did show improvement in his three years with us and maybe playing in a pressure less situation in Florida he will be relaxed enough to make his game better. However, I am happy to go into 2014 with the team we have because I think we have done all we could to get up to speed, and once we get our utility infielder and extra RH outfielder who can play center we will be fine. I just don't want to see us make a big leap for a big name and wind up giving three of our top prospects away. Let the mountain come to Charington and he can pick and choose----VERY CAREFULLY.

[marklmw]

If "Ski" fits in with the team it could be a big plus for the Red Sox. He is tough and calls a good game and he is pretty good man at bat in the clutch. The worry is whether he will interface with his teammates the way Salty did. Face it, Jarrod was pathetic in framing pitches and he cost our pitchers a lot of strikes, but OTOH he did show improvement in his three years with us and maybe playing in a pressure less situation in Florida he will be relaxed enough to make his game better. However, I am happy to go into 2014 with the team we have because I think we have done all we could to get up to speed, and once we get our utility infielder and extra RH outfielder who can play center we will be fine. I just don't want to see us make a big leap for a big name and wind up giving three of our top prospects away. Let the mountain come to Charington and he can pick and choose----VERY CAREFULLY.

A.J. and Ross will do a solid job behind the plate next year. We will be fine.

[reYoukilis]

The problem is that you're both discounting the impact of a catcher on a pitching staff, and overplaying Salty's very mild defensive improvement. Nieves is the guy with the biggest hard-on for Vasquez, and he was the one to recommend AJ as a bridge option to his binky. There's something there that stats can't (and they're not very good at valuing catchers) identify.

Red Sox fans should never discount the impact a catcher has with calling a good game. That was probably Varitek's only true strength. And we all know where that got us.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox fans should never discount the impact a catcher has with calling a good game. That was probably Varitek's only true strength. And we all know where that got us.

 

Varitek did have 3 outstanding offensive seasons 2003-2005, and some other above-average ones. His career OPS of .776 was good for a catcher.

[reYoukilis]

Varitek did have 3 outstanding offensive seasons 2003-2005, and some other above-average ones. His career OPS of .776 was good for a catcher.

Youre right, my mistake. Still though his pitch calling is his best strength, enough so that it overshadowed his lack of arm strength throwing out stealers. Not sure about his glove really.

[sk7326]

Red Sox fans should never discount the impact a catcher has with calling a good game. That was probably Varitek's only true strength. And we all know where that got us.

 

The man knew how to put down that fastball sign ...

[marklmw]

Vasquez is on his way ... I will be following him closely next year ... may even make a couple of games.

[wyo-sox]

Vasquez is on his way ... I will be following him closely next year ... may even make a couple of games.

 

I hope so. Last year at spring training he was amazing to watch throw to second. Not many going to try and steal on him.