Marahiro Tanaka And Sox Starting Rotation.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Multiple reports out that Tanaka will not be posted.

 

This hurts the Yankees. A lot.

[mvp 78]

Garza to the Yanks?

[Palodios]

The Eagles planning to offer Tanaka a NPB record-setting offer to stay in Japan.

 

"If the team tells me, 'We're not going to post you. Please stay,' the professional thing to do is give it your all and get back to pitching," Tanaka told reporters this week. "I'm ready to do that."

 

The Red Sox will be in a much better position to bid for him next year. The trade market for Dempster will also improve quite a bit -- reports seem to say that they want to trade either him or Peavy. I expect atleast one of Garza/Arroyo/Santana to sign in the next 24 hours.

[reYoukilis]

But how much of that was Selig vs luck? Did he have alot to do with getting people to like baseball? I got into baseball because I got tired of football and basketball's BS, like all the chest thumping. Im sure Im not the only one. To me Selig is merely the guy who made the stupidest rule in all of sports in that the winner of the allstar game gets home field advantage. The Rangers, my second favorite team, has been screwed by that rule twice. And I also don't like Selig because he probably encouraged PED use and now is acting like its such a terrible thing. Edited December 19, 2013 by reYoukilis

[SoxFanForsyth]

The Eagles planning to offer Tanaka a NPB record-setting offer to stay in Japan.

 

 

 

The Red Sox will be in a much better position to bid for him next year. The trade market for Dempster will also improve quite a bit -- reports seem to say that they want to trade either him or Peavy. I expect atleast one of Garza/Arroyo/Santana to sign in the next 24 hours.

 

The Sox will also have a much better idea of what to expect from guys like Ranaudo, Barnes, Webster, Workman, Hinojosa, and even Owens going forward, so they'll be able to adjust how much they want to invest in a guy like Tanaka.

[Palodios]

The Sox will also have a much better idea of what to expect from guys like Ranaudo, Barnes, Webster, Workman, Hinojosa, and even Owens going forward, so they'll be able to adjust how much they want to invest in a guy like Tanaka.

 

Right now, the most expensive part of the team is their starting pitching. Next year, they lose Lackey's 16 mill, Peavy's 14 mill, Dempster's 13 mill, and maybe Lester's 12 million. Tanaka is the logical place for them to re-invest, even if they see major strides from the young arms.

[dupree]

Hahaha Im glad Tanaka stays in Japan for one more year. Anything that screws up the Yanks plans makes by day. Id say today and tomorrow will be fast and furious with signings and trades for starting pitchers. I just hope someone takes Dempster off our hands. And then that money gets relocated into the salary of a power OF bat and not into the salary of Stephan Drew.

[SoxSport]

Hahaha Im glad Tanaka stays in Japan for one more year. Anything that screws up the Yanks plans makes by day. Id say today and tomorrow will be fast and furious with signings and trades for starting pitchers. I just hope someone takes Dempster off our hands. And then that money gets relocated into the salary of a power OF bat and not into the salary of Stephan Drew.

 

No doubt good for the Red Sox. Bad for the Yankees. Getting Dempster back to the NL would seem to be almost a priority.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Right now, the most expensive part of the team is their starting pitching. Next year, they lose Lackey's 16 mill, Peavy's 14 mill, Dempster's 13 mill, and maybe Lester's 12 million. Tanaka is the logical place for them to re-invest, even if they see major strides from the young arms.

 

I assume they will extend Lester, though, at probably 5/90-100. They'll lose 15.5 of Lackey, and Peavy is actually 16.5, not 14. Plus Dempster's 13, so they'll lose (including Lester's $12) $57mm off the books, add $18-20mm, so they'll have ~37-39mm to play with and really have no position players to replace. I would assume the rotation would be something like Lester Buchholz Doubront, and then two of Barnes, Ranaudo, Workman, Owens, Webster. But again, you go get Tanaka, and you can probably dish a few of those prospects for a big bat in LF.

 

This obviously isn't even counting the loss of Pierzynski, Ross, & Gomes (~18mm), two of whom can be replaced internally with Brentz and Vazquez, and then sign a backup C.

 

The Sox will have a ton of payroll flexibility going into the 2015 season. And there are some very intriguing names hitting free agency. Clayton Kershaw, Justin Masterson, James Shields, potentially Tanaka (give me Kershaw, plz)

[Bellhorn04]

Multiple reports out that Tanaka will not be posted.

 

This hurts the Yankees. A lot.

 

Now the cherry on the sundae will be if A-Rod gets his suspension overturned or reduced.

[redsoxrules]

Tanaka will not be posted

[Spitball]

When he is posted, I imagine Tanaka will sign a ridiculously high priced contract for a bunch of years. I just hope it isn't with the Red Sox.

 

Tanaka is apparently an amazing 24 year-old pitcher with a great arsenal of pitches. He is coming off a 24-0 season. Statistically, he was even better in 2011. He seems like a great pitcher, but at what price?

 

If he signs a Cliff Lee-like contract or greater, I'd rather the Red Sox pass. They don't need any monster long term contracts on pitchers or anyone else.

 

Besides the fact Tanaka would bring a distracting sideshow of press form America and Japan, the kid has already pitched a lot of baseball at an early age. He has pitched over 1300 innings and has over 50 complete games. His k/9 rate was below 8.0 for only the second time in his career last season. These numbers might not mean a thing, but they may if the Sox are about to sink a lot of money and years into a pitcher.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There will be ridiculous dollars thrown at the guy.

[rjortiz]

The Eagles planning to offer Tanaka a NPB record-setting offer to stay in Japan.

 

 

 

The Red Sox will be in a much better position to bid for him next year. The trade market for Dempster will also improve quite a bit -- reports seem to say that they want to trade either him or Peavy. I expect atleast one of Garza/Arroyo/Santana to sign in the next 24 hours.

 

I'm guessing Arroyo, Santana, and Garza are waiting for a Tanaka decision before they sign.

[vjcsmoke]

The Sox will have a ton of payroll flexibility going into the 2015 season. And there are some very intriguing names hitting free agency. Clayton Kershaw, Justin Masterson, James Shields, potentially Tanaka (give me Kershaw, plz)

 

Would love Kershaw but the Dodgers would be stupid to let him go. And the current Dodgers LOVE to spend. So I don't see us landing him.

 

Masterson is a sinkerballer who I don't see playing that well in Fenway. He's a #2/3 type pitcher anyways. We traded him away for a reason.

Shields... is an innings eater but his numbers have been getting worse each year.

 

The thing about NPB pitchers is that although they throw a lot of innings per game, they play much fewer games total than the Majors. And Tanaka is 6 years younger than Shields. I think he's still young enough that his total IP is not a worry for me. I think it's good that:

 

1. The Yankees are denied a chance to get him for one year.

2. The Red Sox will have a shot at him with a LOT of money coming off their payroll.

3. We get to see more 'work product' to make up our minds, is this guy a #2 or could he potentially become a staff anchor.

 

I think Tanaka is going to be the best free agent option in 2015, at age 26, assuming that Kershaw is extended longterm by the Dodgers before he gets there.

[rjortiz]

Why is everyone acting like Tanaka will be available in 2015? He's going to be posted.

 

EDIT* Didn't see the USA Today report. Another huge blow to the Yankees.

Edited December 20, 2013 by rjortiz

[rjortiz]

I believe Selig has conspired to return the Yankees to contention, but has been bad, bad for baseball.

 

Did you forget to add "don't" between I and Selig? If this is his grand conspiracy to return the Yankees to contention it sucks.

[a700hitter]

Did you forget to add "don't" between I and Selig? If this is his grand conspiracy to return the Yankees to contention it sucks.

While I don't believe that there has been any conspiracy, the rest of baseball wants the Yankees to be competitive, because they bring profits to the whole league when they have good teams. It makes me sick, but I believe that to be true.

[Palodios]

While I don't believe that there has been any conspiracy, the rest of baseball wants the Yankees to be competitive, because they bring profits to the whole league when they have good teams. It makes me sick, but I believe that to be true.

 

You know what would be even better for the league? The other big money cities to have good teams. The Yankees already have a fanbase... but a Cubs or Mets World Series would do much bigger things for the game. What value would another Yankee World Series have for the game? It'll just annoy the other teams, and the same annoying Yankee fans would avoid watching the playoffs till the championship series, and be mildly entertained when they win, because it has become such a novelty for them.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Palodios

[mvp 78]

That subway series with the Mets sure did a lot for MLB!

 

The Cubs are a better storyline by not winning.

[vjcsmoke]

Seriously. I don't think the Yankees winning is 'good for baseball'. It's good for the Yankees. What makes playoff baseball compelling, is not that you see the same old teams, but rather the storylines that develop for the teams that make it. Would I like to see the Cubs in the World Series? That would get hyped like crazy. I don't think they will, but that's just an example.

 

Using our team as an example - it was the Last to First story. And it was Boston Strong. I think the Boston Red Sox winning the World Series this past season was GREAT for baseball. A much stronger storyline than, oh btw Yankees make it to the Series for the Umpteenth time. But regardless of how good the 'story' is, bottom line we DID have the BEST TEAM in baseball. Our guys played their hearts out and earned that championship by winning against the best and most talented opponents surviving in the playoffs this year.

Edited December 20, 2013 by vjcsmoke

[a700hitter]

You know what would be even better for the league? The other big money cities to have good teams. The Yankees already have a fanbase... but a Cubs or Mets World Series would do much bigger things for the game. What value would another Yankee World Series have for the game? It'll just annoy the other teams, and the same annoying Yankee fans would avoid watching the playoffs till the championship series, and be mildly entertained when they win, because it has become such a novelty for them.

I wasn't talking about TV ratings in the post season. Baseball as a whole prefers the Yankees to be competitive with big stars, because they put fannies in the seats in small market parks like Tampa, KC, Baltimore etc. When the Yankees come to town, those owners fill their pockets. If they Yankees suck and have no stars (like 2013), it hurts the other teams' attendance.

[Palodios]

I wasn't talking about TV ratings in the post season. Baseball as a whole prefers the Yankees to be competitive with big stars, because they put fannies in the seats in small market parks like Tampa, KC, Baltimore etc. When the Yankees come to town, those owners fill their pockets. If they Yankees suck and have no stars (like 2013), it hurts the other teams' attendance.

 

But the same thing happens for the Red Sox. How many times have we called Baltimore's stadium "Red Sox South" or said "We'll see you in the playoffs for our home games in Tampa" ? When the Cubs played the Red Sox at Fenway, those were premium games with packed stadiums. We'll see the same effect if the Mets or Cubs were actually good teams.

[redsoxrules]

Would love Kershaw but the Dodgers would be stupid to let him go. And the current Dodgers LOVE to spend. So I don't see us landing him.

 

Masterson is a sinkerballer who I don't see playing that well in Fenway. He's a #2/3 type pitcher anyways. We traded him away for a reason.

Shields... is an innings eater but his numbers have been getting worse each year.

 

The thing about NPB pitchers is that although they throw a lot of innings per game, they play much fewer games total than the Majors. And Tanaka is 6 years younger than Shields. I think he's still young enough that his total IP is not a worry for me. I think it's good that:

 

1. The Yankees are denied a chance to get him for one year.

2. The Red Sox will have a shot at him with a LOT of money coming off their payroll.

3. We get to see more 'work product' to make up our minds, is this guy a #2 or could he potentially become a staff anchor.

 

I think Tanaka is going to be the best free agent option in 2015, at age 26, assuming that Kershaw is extended longterm by the Dodgers before he gets there.

 

Kershaw declined a 300M extension. Reason being he's not sure he wants to stay in LA.

Regardless, the Red Sox have never given a pitcher a 100M contract so don't expect to land Kershaw

[mvp 78]

I wasn't talking about TV ratings in the post season. Baseball as a whole prefers the Yankees to be competitive with big stars, because they put fannies in the seats in small market parks like Tampa, KC, Baltimore etc. When the Yankees come to town, those owners fill their pockets. If they Yankees suck and have no stars (like 2013), it hurts the other teams' attendance.

The teams that saw the biggest attendence decline were Miami and Philly, 600k and 500k respectively. Neither decline is attributable to the Yanks. In fact, excluding those two teams, MLB's attendence increased when compared to 2012.

 

Baltimore and KC both saw increased attendence in 2013. Tampa's decrease was less than 50k.

Edited December 20, 2013 by mvp 78

[a700hitter]

But the same thing happens for the Red Sox. How many times have we called Baltimore's stadium "Red Sox South" or said "We'll see you in the playoffs for our home games in Tampa" ? When the Cubs played the Red Sox at Fenway, those were premium games with packed stadiums. We'll see the same effect if the Mets or Cubs were actually good teams.

Like I said, the thought that baseball wants the Yankees to be good sickens me, but IMO that is true. When the Red Sox or Cubs are good their fans travel around to see them and they have fans in every part of the country. When the Yankees are good, especialy when they have some top controversial stars, people who hate them in these other cities come out to watch them. Again, this is just my opinion, but I have read similar opinions from writers throughout the years. Throughout the years, the Yankees have gotten away with a lot of shenanigans where baseball looked the other way to keep the competitve scales tilted in favor of the Yankees. Prior to the days of free agency, the Yankees used teams like the Phillies and the KC A's as farm systems. They were constantly poaching their players for a few bucks under the table.

[a700hitter]

The teams that saw the biggest attendence decline were Miami and Philly, 600k and 500k respectively. Neither decline is attributable to the Yanks. In fact, excluding those two teams, MLB's attendence increased when compared to 2012.

 

Baltimore and KC both saw increased attendence in 2013. Tampa's decrease was less than 50k.

What I stated was an opinion. If you want to debunk an opinion, do a better job than some cherry picked stats. How about a three year analysis of attendance at visiting ballparks for the dates when the Yankees were in town-- or something with some statistical validity. Better yet, put me back on ignore. Things worked better that way

[mvp 78]

What I stated was an opinion. If you want to debunk an opinion, do a better job than some cherry picked stats. How about a three year analysis of attendance at visiting ballparks for the dates when the Yankees were in town-- or something with some statistical validity. Better yet, put me back on ignore. Things worked better that way

 

All this basically says is "when presented with facts that don't agree with my argument, I lash out."

 

Why don't you go back to your 40 year old point about the Yanks poaching teams before FA. Now that's a timely discussion!

[a700hitter]

All this basically says is "when presented with facts that don't agree with my argument, I lash out."

 

Why don't you go back to your 40 year old point about the Yanks poaching teams before FA. Now that's a timely discussion!

I just don't want to leave any doubt about my intentions to engage you on any topic. Your constant snarky broad based mean-spirited attacks aimed at TalkSox members has made you toxic as far as I am concerned. I'll not validate any of your opinions or discussions by engaging with you. Merry Christmas.

[Palodios]

Like I said, the thought that baseball wants the Yankees to be good sickens me, but IMO that is true. When the Red Sox or Cubs are good their fans travel around to see them and they have fans in every part of the country. When the Yankees are good, especialy when they have some top controversial stars, people who hate them in these other cities come out to watch them. Again, this is just my opinion, but I have read similar opinions from writers throughout the years. Throughout the years, the Yankees have gotten away with a lot of shenanigans where baseball looked the other way to keep the competitve scales tilted in favor of the Yankees. Prior to the days of free agency, the Yankees used teams like the Phillies and the KC A's as farm systems. They were constantly poaching their players for a few bucks under the table.

 

I think the scale has tilted away from them though. They have a big financial advantage, but not nearly as monstrous an advantage as it was even 5-10 years ago. They used to be the premier team, but in a few years from now, are they going to be any different from the Celtics? Storied winners of the past leading their sport in titles, but in 5 years from now, who knows, maybe the reckless spending catches up with them, and they become like the Celtics of the 90s and early 2000s.

[vjcsmoke]

Kershaw declined a 300M extension. Reason being he's not sure he wants to stay in LA.

Regardless, the Red Sox have never given a pitcher a 100M contract so don't expect to land Kershaw

 

I don't see us even close to a matching a 300m dollar offer. LOL. So, no Kershaw to the Sox.

 

But if the Yankees go crazy after missing out on Tanaka, maybe they say the hell with the luxury tax and offer Kershaw 350m. That would be the end of sanity. But it wouldn't surprise me if the Stankees were backed into a corner, this is just the type of move they could make to 'buy themselves' back into contention.

 

PS I think anyone would be crazy to turn down 300m dollars unless they have an ironclad secret agreement with another team in hand for significantly more dollars.