Should we resign Jacoby Ellsbury?

[sk7326]

I am constantly telling my 4 y.o. son to tell the truth ... I might be giving the lad bad advise and perhaps being politically incorrect at the same time.

 

Boras got 14 million a year for an innings soaker upper ... I don't think any of his clients are weeping. Both sides have interest in saying what they say. Generally in a battle of wits between Boras and an average baseball owner, I'd pick Boras. (I don't say GM because on some basic level, the contracts of this ilk are ownership level choices)

[mvp 78]

Boras got 14 million a year for an innings soaker upper ... I don't think any of his clients are weeping. Both sides have interest in saying what they say. Generally in a battle of wits between Boras and an average baseball owner, I'd pick Boras. (I don't say GM because on some basic level, the contracts of this ilk are ownership level choices)

 

John Henry said he didn't want CC, but they signed him anyway.

[sk7326]

John Henry said he didn't want CC, but they signed him anyway.

 

I'll take CYA for $500 - of course if he did not sign off on such a large commitment (even just staying - sign the best guy, which Crawford was in that class by some measures) that is quite derelict.

[SoxSport]

The Red Sox have won their championship--much to their management's surprise. So really, there is no need for them to break the bank this year with expensive long term signings. I think they are aiming to avoid that. Right now, guys like Napoli are testing the market to see if they can sucker somebody to overpay in years and money. Hopefully, he'll come back to Boston with an acceptable deal. He knows damn well he is best off in Boston--at Fenway. I wonder if Texas will go hard after him--doubt it. He isn't a catcher anymore.

 

The Sox have some breathing room now to give their best prospects a chance. A way to improve the team without spending much money. There is no pressure to win again-- maybe only to contend and make the playoffs.

[Bellhorn04]

The Red Sox have won their championship--much to their management's surprise. So really, there is no need for them to break the bank this year with expensive long term signings. I think they are aiming to avoid that. Right now, guys like Napoli are testing the market to see if they can sucker somebody to overpay in years and money. Hopefully, he'll come back to Boston with an acceptable deal. He knows damn well he is best off in Boston--at Fenway. I wonder if Texas will go hard after him--doubt it. He isn't a catcher anymore.

 

Texas would use him at 1B. He'd be a major upgrade over Moreland. They need offence.

[Behindenemylines]

Has been a really slow start to the hot stove. I think most fans would love to have Ellsbury back, but we all know the chance of that is very slim. Unless everyone has misread the market Ellsbury will not be back in Boston.

[seabeachfred]

Has been a really slow start to the hot stove. I think most fans would love to have Ellsbury back, but we all know the chance of that is very slim. Unless everyone has misread the market Ellsbury will not be back in Boston.

 

BEL---I think when it comes to Ells hope springs eternal with the Jacoby Marching and Chowder Society. They not only want him back as most of the rest of us do but they honesty believe there's a decent chance of him returning. I hope they're right but I know in my bones they are not. Two teams will get in the bidding and it will go to the stratosphere and far enough out there that the Red Sox will just thrown in their cards.

[SoxSport]

BEL---I think when it comes to Ells hope springs eternal with the Jacoby Marching and Chowder Society. They not only want him back as most of the rest of us do but they honesty believe there's a decent chance of him returning. I hope they're right but I know in my bones they are not. Two teams will get in the bidding and it will go to the stratosphere and far enough out there that the Red Sox will just thrown in their cards.

 

Not a good business decision to overpay for somebody you have other options for. They know Ells strengths and weaknesses better than anybody. They could sign Chou for RF and move Vic to CF, JBJ backing up.

[mvp 78]

Not a good business decision to overpay for somebody you have other options for. They know Ells strengths and weaknesses better than anybody. They could sign Chou for RF and move Vic to CF, JBJ backing up.

 

Choo is looking for an Ellsbury contract.

[Bellhorn04]

Choo is looking for an Ellsbury contract.

 

Ellsbury is looking for Crawford's.

Choo is looking for Werth's.

 

Nice of these guys to use such bad contracts as reference points.

[BornToRun]

Ellsbury is looking for Crawford's.

Choo is looking for Werth's.

 

Nice of these guys to use such bad contracts as reference points.

Some Mets executive, fwiw, speculated that neither Choo nor Ellsbury would break 100 million. I doubt he's right but if that ends up being the case, and Ells is willing to take 5 years, I think we'll bring him back.

[marklmw]

Some Mets executive, fwiw, speculated that neither Choo nor Ellsbury would break 100 million. I doubt he's right but if that ends up being the case, and Ells is willing to take 5 years, I think we'll bring him back.

 

Ellsbury is most valuable to the Sox for the next 2 years. If he were to sign with Boston at a reasonable price we can always deal him 3 years out. I am having a really hard time however thinking that we will pay someone big money when JBJ is projected to be a very good player. It is a catch 22 cause to a man who would not want to see Ells leading off next season.

[sk7326]

Certainly that is what the notoriously cheap (well, cheap considering the biggest market on earth) Mets are hoping for. The market is slow with the top guys - which makes sense. Just a lot of waiting to see what happens with Cano, and then the rest of the dominoes can fall into place. Essentially Cano (easily the best player in this cohort) will set the market, so I think a lot of guys are waiting to see where he ends up.

[marklmw]

Certainly that is what the notoriously cheap (well, cheap considering the biggest market on earth) Mets are hoping for. The market is slow with the top guys - which makes sense. Just a lot of waiting to see what happens with Cano, and then the rest of the dominoes can fall into place. Essentially Cano (easily the best player in this cohort) will set the market, so I think a lot of guys are waiting to see where he ends up.

Yeah ... for the upper and middle tier players it makes sense to wait for Cano. Do you have any idea when most of the deals are typically made?

[sk7326]

Yeah ... for the upper and middle tier players it makes sense to wait for Cano. Do you have any idea when most of the deals are typically made?

 

Winter Meetings will be when the dialogue gets particularly hot and heavy normally - also at that point the trade targets start to figure prominently.

[jung]

With so much money at stake I expect FA's to be willing to wait a little longer than normal....guys will be inclined to wait for the player at the top of the pyramid for a particular position to sign so that he can be used as a benchmark I think.

[SoxSport]

There's a lot more pressure on the other teams to do something than the Red Sox--they are at the top of the heap right now, and are in an excellent position.

 

I posted this in another thread, but I think it's worth repeating here as well.

 

http://bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2013/11/options_abound_for_sox_cherington

[seabeachfred]

There's a lot more pressure on the other teams to do something than the Red Sox--they are at the top of the heap right now, and are in an excellent position.

 

I posted this in another thread, but I think it's worth repeating here as well.

 

http://bostonherald.com/sports/red_sox_mlb/boston_red_sox/2013/11/options_abound_for_sox_cherington

 

OTOH Sox Sport, we can ill afford to slam a brick wall on the chemistry of this year's team by letting all the FA walk and replacing them with types that don't fit into the Red Sox mold, and from some of the players I've heard mentioned they don't fit the Red Sox mold at all. We have to be very careful who we let walk and who se sign in their place. Good team spirit and chemistry is a very fragile commodity and you only have to look at 2011 and 2012, compare it with this season and see for yourself.

[User Name]

Don't you think it would be a good idea to trust the guy who created this team spirit and chemistry in the first place?

[sk7326]

OTOH Sox Sport, we can ill afford to slam a brick wall on the chemistry of this year's team by letting all the FA walk and replacing them with types that don't fit into the Red Sox mold, and from some of the players I've heard mentioned they don't fit the Red Sox mold at all. We have to be very careful who we let walk and who se sign in their place. Good team spirit and chemistry is a very fragile commodity and you only have to look at 2011 and 2012, compare it with this season and see for yourself.

 

Good players, solid guys ... Beltran (I disagree with signing him for baseball reasons) has been on a lot of good teams. He has had a lot of postseason experience, and whatever sample size that is, he has done well. I know you questioned his loyalty, because he had the temerity to go seek a living and take advantage of his free agency rights, but that is severely misreading what a professional is.

 

Team spirit and chemistry are important, but the first thing is good baseball players and (as much as you can control) healthy ones. You can't lead from the training table, and any amount of good team spirit can be crushed by a bad losing streak. Now can the team spirit overcome the crushing injuries the way the 89-73 2010 squad did? Or will it collpase like it did in 2012. That is a matter of leadership - and Farrell has shown that unlike the guy who ran the ship in 2012, he is at least engaged.

[SoxSport]

OTOH Sox Sport, we can ill afford to slam a brick wall on the chemistry of this year's team by letting all the FA walk and replacing them with types that don't fit into the Red Sox mold, and from some of the players I've heard mentioned they don't fit the Red Sox mold at all. We have to be very careful who we let walk and who se sign in their place. Good team spirit and chemistry is a very fragile commodity and you only have to look at 2011 and 2012, compare it with this season and see for yourself.

 

Absolutely. That's how Cherington can screw it up--he has to know the key elements to retain. But he has help in the FO now. James, for example, probably has clout with Henry. James 2014 projections provide some clues. Drew, for one, looks like he's going elsewhere. He's positive about MBrooks, X, and JBJ.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2013/11/bill_james_handbook_red_sox.html

Edited November 21, 2013 by SoxSport

[seabeachfred]

Don't you think it would be a good idea to trust the guy who created this team spirit and chemistry in the first place?

 

I take the position that our once great President Reagan said many times....TRUST BUT VERIFY. Cherington did a fabulous job putting our team together for this season and he deserves all the credit in the world and those of us who doubted him must admit it (as I have on numerous occasions) and stand down. However, thi board is for expressing our opinions and I'm giving mine whether you like them or not. You have one way of looking at things and I have another. I've said it over and over.....we must not dally with Mike Napoli. We need to sign him as soon as possible and s*** on this one year contract offer. If the front office want to be deliberate on some of our other needs, then fine. Napoli, however, must be resigned in my honest opinion and the sooner the better.

[mvp 78]

I take the position that our once great president Clinton had: every guy deserves a blow every once in a while. Therefore, having a platoon at 1b isn't the end of the world.

[User Name]

It is for Fred.

 

SIGN NAPOLI OR THE WORLD SHALL EXPLODE INTO A HELL OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE AND WE SHALL ALL SUFFER ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!111!!!!

[marklmw]

Fred ... you need to relax. Nothing creates better team chemistry than winning. It also helps to have the leadership of Papi and Pedey and rid yourself of AGon and Beckett. Lackey imo is still somewhat of a problem child but he seems to be growing up a little. It is no surprise to me that the Sox are open to deals involving Lackey, Peavy and Dempster. Ben did a fabulous job putting the 2013 team together and he deserves the benefit of the doubt with respect to Napoli. Throughout the 2013 season Napoli had his ups and downs, same with Drew ... after we win a Championship and finish on a high note all of these issues have now been long forgotten by the fans but hopefully not by management. I am sure that the FO would love to put the exact same team on the field next season but unfortunately that would not be possible due to the 4 FA's and their own personal expectations. It is a fine art to put a team together that can address most of your needs and within a set amount of money. There are so many moving parts that the FO has to consider ... they have to look 3-4 years ahead where as the average fan is only looking at 2014.

Do you really think that a platoon of Hart & Carp could not give you the same numbers as Napoli?

Just an educated guess as there is no way to know for sure.

[User Name]

I want to take this post ^ out to a steak dinner.

[jung]

SIGN NAPOLI OR THE WORLD SHALL EXPLODE INTO A HELL OF FIRE AND BRIMSTONE AND WE SHALL ALL SUFFER ETERNAL DAMNATION!!!111!!!!

 

Well I know where the fire and brimstone is going to come from but I am a little short on the eternal damnation.

[User Name]

Well I know where the fire and brimstone is going to come from but I am a little short on the eternal damnation.

 

The pink-hat army. It will come from the pink-hat army.

[Bellhorn04]

Fred ... you need to relax.

 

Ha ha...Fred doesn't do relax. I've been reading his posts since 2007 so I know. The best is yet to come, believe me.

[marklmw]

I want to take this post ^ out to a steak dinner.

 

Nice UN ... glad to see your exercise some humor!