Rating Ben Cherington

[Bellhorn04]

And now it's official. Cherington has hit the f***ing jackpot of a lifetime.

[RedSoxNC84]

Ben Cherington is going to wake up tomorrow morning and piss pure excellence.

 

^^^

[Palodios]

As expected, the Cherrington Seven came up big in the playoffs.

[RedSoxNC84]

Ben Cherington for 2013 talksox MVP

[mvp 78]

What a rack!!!

[Beaneater]

I'd say he did OK. In the C+/B- sort of range.

[rorschach]

f***ing Cardinal fans are already coming with the "Good job Boston, way to buy yourself a World Series Championship." crap. Cherington made fantastic moves, but he hardly went out and pulled a Yankee/Dodger/Angel or hell even a Met or Rangers act. He made the right moves, and the majority of the time got the most out of those acquisitions, hell he traded away of 2 players with more star name power in Crawford and Gonzalez then anybody he picked up. I swear to god I'm surrounded by Cardinal fans, and f*** are they a bunch of crybabies.

[jung]

I am sure that we are going to credit Cherington for having constructed this WS Championship team and well we should. But if the view from Management including Cherington was that he had constructed a team that had a legitimate shot to end up here then we would not have heard the guy with the most marketing intent of the group, Larry Lucchino calling it a bridge year. I very much expect that priority one was to clean out the poison in that clubhouse and return to respectability. In doing so, I would be willing to bet they thought they might end up with an outside chance to get here. But that is not what this team did.

 

This team was the best team in baseball. It did not squeak into the post season and get hot at the right time as we often discuss here. They were the best team this season and they went out and beat the other best teams of the 2013 season. No way Cherington thought he was constructing that from scratch in one year and no way anybody else thought so either.

 

I just don't want the players to get lost in any BC, Boy Genius stuff we might consider here. The players did this....not Cherington...not Farrell and the rest of the coaches though Cherington, Farrell and the Coaches did a terrific job.

 

We caught lightning in a bottle in the sense that we ended up with a very high percentage of the total team in that clubhouse that were veterans that had something to prove to themselves and to everybody else and we had the incredibly unusual experience to have had all of those questions answered in the affirmative with few exceptions.

 

Consider the following:

-Jon Lester, not only had Jon at the time anticipated not accepted the role of rotation leader, he actually went a bit backwards, until this year. He had even gotten to the point where he was making noise about not understanding what more he could do, what other level there was for him to seek. Here is the correct answer Jon. This is what we expected of you. This is what we wanted you to expect of yourself. Questions answered.

 

-John Lackey, Could he and had he come all the way back from personal problems, from health problems, from TJ? Could he resist the temptation to go ballistic on the mound when a teammate made an error? Questions answered

 

-Buch, started the 2013 season with lingering questions about his durability and at the end of 2013, those questions still linger. However, in those four innings in game 4, Buch clearly learned things that he did not even know about himself. Did he have what it takes to go out there with a quarter of an arm in the high intensity environment of the WS and battle through four or five innings? If you looked at Buch in the dugout when he came off the mound, it was plainly obvious that he did not know when he took the mound that night what to expect of himself. He was IMO in fact, close to tears in that dugout, very close to being overwhelmed by the emotions of the moment, finally content that he had proved something to himself, never mind anybody else. At that moment I don't think he gave a crap about anybody but himself and his teammates. Question answered

 

-Felix, Could Felix take the next step forward in his young career, having shown up for ST out of shape and ill prepared to start the 2013 campaign? Questions answered

 

-Victorino, Was he now the player of the 2012 campaign or was 2012 the anomaly in what has been otherwise a very good career. Questions answered

 

-Napoli, Could he play more games in this regular season than he had played in years? Could he be a full time 1st baseman? Would his hip hold up? Questions answered

 

-Drew, Would he or could he get back to the player he was before his ankle shattered? Questions answered

 

-Gomes, Was he the everyday LFer? Was he the platoon LFer? What the hell was he? Questions answered

 

-Nava, Was he truly a ML player? Questions answered

 

-Ells, What was Ells? Is he a great lead off hitter? Is he a lead off hitter with exceptional power? Has he enough power to be considered moving out of the 1 hole to something like a 3 hole? We and he and his agent now know what he is. Questions answered.

 

That is ten of the twenty-five guys that broke camp that had major major questions mainly for themselves that answered them for the most part in the affirmative.

 

Even when the question did not receive the answer we wanted, it worked out. Was Bailey durable enough to be the closer for a full season...No. Was Hanrahan good enough to come over to the AL East and Close....No. But the answers we did not want to those questions yielded..... Koji.

 

But it is even better than that because in reality. With the exception of Ells who took the early season before he climbed aboard, every member of this team put his personal goals and aspirations on the shelf and those that had real fundamental questions about themselves found their answers within a team concept that once they found, they never abandoned. They were monumentally consistent in their approach to playing games which in large part is why they never suffered a major losing streak.

 

Not only do I what the players to get the bulk of the credit here because IMO they deserve it, I don't want BC to be put in some position of being another Boy Genius expected to pull off something he was incapable of doing in the first place. He has done a terrific job. We are lucky to have him. But lets not make more of the GM's role than it was just like we should not make more of the Manager's role than what it was. Farrell's best quality is an ability to make the players responsible for themselves while demanding and gaining their respect, that and impeccable game preparation are his true strengths as a Manager.

 

The players did this....your Boston Red Sox did this behind the veteran leadership of Pedey and Popi.

[sk7326]

This season was a remarkable correction from the lapse that was 2012 - it is instructive that key assistants from the previous regime were the guys running the controls here. The management deserves credit for having enough humility to correct course when it turned out the old way was still pretty effective.

 

Really this season was a case of a return to form for Jon Lester - a bullpen which found itself (and given the way relievers are year to year - it is a crapshoot every season) down the stretch and just a ton of the bad luck of the past reversing itself.

 

You look at the serious amounts of time missed by our best players last year and the clown car full of starting pitchers who had to mop up the last year and change ... if the team could just have the injury bug nipped (or at least seriously reduced), it was going to go a long way towards moving us to respectability. 97 wins and a title was more than anybody could predict - but there was always a playoff contender here, the players were finally able to ply their trade.

[seabeachfred]

f***ing Cardinal fans are already coming with the "Good job Boston, way to buy yourself a World Series Championship." crap. Cherington made fantastic moves, but he hardly went out and pulled a Yankee/Dodger/Angel or hell even a Met or Rangers act. He made the right moves, and the majority of the time got the most out of those acquisitions, hell he traded away of 2 players with more star name power in Crawford and Gonzalez then anybody he picked up. I swear to god I'm surrounded by Cardinal fans, and f*** are they a bunch of crybabies.

 

And here I heard the Cardinal fans has class. Don't pay any attention to them. If that's their take they're dumber than a dumbwaiter. They only have to look at our roster to see that we went for unity, class and team spirit as well as decent talent than ringing up a big price for a Hamilton or someone of that ilk.

[Behindenemylines]

He didn't make too many wrong decisions in the past year. Cher's team won a championship that no one thought they would win. General Manager of the year in my eye.

[jacksonianmarch]

Guys, he took a team saddled with garbage contracts that was going nowhere in 2012. He dealt away a lot of talent but a lot of bad eggs with big money and got a shot at restarting the franchise. In doing so, he focused on a high character, high intangibles team lead by a no nonsense manager. He added Victorino, Gomes, Dempster, and Napoli in the offseason, all high character guys who were still playing at a high level. He dealt from a position of strength to bring in Peavy, another high producing character guy. He kept his farm mostly intact, bringing up Bogaerts at the right time. Guys, he had the perfect 16 months or so. He's definitely GM of the yr. He might be the best GM in Boston history. Theo took over a good team. Cherington took over a mediocre team, stripped it down to the studs and turned it into a championship in a yr. Damn impressive.

[User Name]

Huh? You spent all offseason criticizing all of those signings except Napoli, and then you shat all over that one because of the hip issues. Now they were all playing "at a high level"?

 

I'd like to hear your explanation for that sentence, even more so as it pertains to Victorino.

[jacksonianmarch]

Huh? You spent all offseason criticizing all of those signings except Napoli, and then you shat all over that one because of the hip issues. Now they were all playing "at a high level"?

 

I'd like to hear your explanation for that sentence, even more so as it pertains to Victorino.

 

Every guy he signed had a caveat, exactly the reason why he was able to get them on a 3yr deal. Vic was coming off a terrible year. Napoli was coming off a poor year and had the hip issue. Dempster was torched in his first run at the AL with Texas and was old. Gomes is a platoon guy. I didn't expect Victorino to have 5.6 WAR season. I didn't see Napoli having a 3.9WAR season. Dempster wasn't great, but he game replacement level innings for the most part. Gomes did what he always did. Adding in those guys made the rest of the team better. I thought that all the parts on their own weren't a big upgrade. In the end, those additions turned things around all over the roster. Then grabbing Farrell, who helped remake Buchholz and Lester and shaped Doubront into who he became. Then there was the signing of Koji. At the time, none of these were impressive. Now, with a Monday morning QB look at it, they were brilliant. A GM has to see past face value, Cherington did that. I was wrong, he was right.

[User Name]

Well my level of respect for you just went from "Westboro baptist church member" to "Glen Davis after a poutfest". Improvement.

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.carolinabirdclub.org/gallery/images/American%20Crow%20Tysinger.jpg

 

I take mine with a side of fried rice and a lot of duck sauce

[VA Sox Fan]

http://www.carolinabirdclub.org/gallery/images/American%20Crow%20Tysinger.jpg

 

I take mine with a side of fried rice and a lot of duck sauce

 

Ha ha ha! Good one jacko!

[sk7326]

Guys, he took a team saddled with garbage contracts that was going nowhere in 2012. He dealt away a lot of talent but a lot of bad eggs with big money and got a shot at restarting the franchise. In doing so, he focused on a high character, high intangibles team lead by a no nonsense manager. He added Victorino, Gomes, Dempster, and Napoli in the offseason, all high character guys who were still playing at a high level. He dealt from a position of strength to bring in Peavy, another high producing character guy. He kept his farm mostly intact, bringing up Bogaerts at the right time. Guys, he had the perfect 16 months or so. He's definitely GM of the yr. He might be the best GM in Boston history. Theo took over a good team. Cherington took over a mediocre team, stripped it down to the studs and turned it into a championship in a yr. Damn impressive.

 

Cherington had a terrific offseason - but this severely discounts the comical level of injury problems that plagued this team between 2010 and 2012. You look at the games Pedroia, Ellsbury, Ortiz, Lackey did not miss ... Jonah Keri in his Grantland wrap up covered a lot of this - this franchise had a 2 year run of incredibly s***** luck, much which resulted in fielding a team with a lot of replacement level chum - and on the mound far worse than that. This year, the guys they were counting on all along were actually able to play and contribute ... empowering the assistant GM and assistant coach from the good old days of 2007 or so was a part of it - but this team finally had a couple of breaks go their way, and were able to avoid the infirmary.

[a700hitter]

He has to win Executive of the Year by a landslide.

[jung]

Absolutely...as close to a unanimous vote as it gets I would hope...not to say even Ben had any idea that he was constructing the WS champ while he was doing it. He didn't..he was not even trying to. Does not matter...he still gets exec of the year without question.

[sk7326]

Cherington will win Executive of the Year - in the AL it is a good field, but still they fielded the best team in the league from wire to wire and he has to get a lot of credit.

 

Farrell will win Manager of the Year - this turnaround (and remember the votes take place before the playoffs) is the sort of thing that almost always guarantees such an honor. Tito, Bob Melvin, Joe Maddon will all get some love, and deservedly ... but it will be a surprise if Farrell is not the choice.

[User Name]

Absolutely...as close to a unanimous vote as it gets I would hope...not to say even Ben had any idea that he was constructing the WS champ while he was doing it. He didn't..he was not even trying to. Does not matter...he still gets exec of the year without question.

 

You keep saying this, but how exactly do you know this?

[jung]

You keep saying this, but how exactly do you know this?[/quotee

 

Because that was not the acknowledged target for one thing. No less than Lucchino himself, the guy most associated with the marketing of the Sox brand announced that this was a bridge year....Lucchino, the guy least likely to admit such a thing unless he was utterly and completely convinced that it was true. I suspect Lucchino was one of the four people that knew for sure and beyond the shadow of a doubt. Obviously Lucchino would have been one of the four people in the room at the time.

[mvp 78]

Lucchino is a dip s*** and wanted Bobby V. His opinion is useless.

[jung]

Lucchino is a dip s*** and wanted Bobby V. His opinion is useless.

 

Since Lucchino would have been in the room when decisions were being made, he would not have been offering his opinion. We don't get to be in those meetings so WE offer opinions.

[mvp 78]

Since Lucchino would have been in the room when decisions were being made, he would not have been offering his opinion. We don't get to be in those meetings so WE offer opinions.

 

But it was his opinion on Ben's moves. Larry's moves didn't work out. He didn't think Ben's moves would work out, for selfish reasons of course. Larry was clearly wrong.

[jung]

Oh OK so Cherrington knew he was building a WS champ...and Larry the CEO and President did not know what the intentions and goals of the club were. Sure...go ahead live in your fantasy world.

 

Just because they eventually did go on to win a championship does not mean that was the realistic target for the 2013 season nor even a goal outside of the usual blather that we get from all baseball organizations all the way down to the Minnesota Twins and Houston Astros.

 

In the first place, Sox Management clearly would have known the biggest challenges they were facing for the 2013 season were attendance, ratings, perception and image and reversing those trends, headed the wrong way for the first time in decades make much more sense as the 2013 goals of the Red Sox organization. The heads of the Red Sox organization literally said the words as far as perception and image goes headed into the 2013 season. A championship is no more than a possibility for any club in the first place. You cannot say Larry was wrong just because they did go in and win the championship and anything a CEO and President says about his own organization is always much more than opinion. Why do you think the stock market moves every time John Chambers opens his big mouth. Do you really think investors think John is just offering us his opinion on what his own company is doing?

[User Name]

 

Because that was not the acknowledged target for one thing. No less than Lucchino himself, the guy most associated with the marketing of the Sox brand announced that this was a bridge year....Lucchino, the guy least likely to admit such a thing unless he was utterly and completely convinced that it was true. I suspect Lucchino was one of the four people that knew for sure and beyond the shadow of a doubt. Obviously Lucchino would have been one of the four people in the room at the time.

 

What Lucchino thought doesn't matter. None of us knows what Cherington's thought process was while/after assembling this team.

[Bellhorn04]

But it was his opinion on Ben's moves. Larry's moves didn't work out. He didn't think Ben's moves would work out, for selfish reasons of course. Larry was clearly wrong.

 

Or maybe Larry just figured we were a 90-win team at best. That idea was not unreasonable.

[jung]

Does not matter what Cherrington was thinking....unbelievable....never mind...this is going to turn into another of those world famous Talksox circle-jerks and those are just too stupid and time consuming.