The Lester - Meyers trade that wasn't made!

[marklmw]

Based on what? Shields has been lights out better the past two years.

 

Shields: 3.15 ERA, 121 ERA +, 477 IP.

 

Lester: 4.17 ERA, 103 ERA+, 397 IP.

 

Give me an actual reason why KC would have preferred Lester to Shields other than "because that'st what i really really really wanted to happen".

 

 

Are you using this years numbers or numbers for 2011 & 2012? How about you take Lesters 2010 season. To me it appears that KC approached Boston but I could be wrong ... and I could be right.

[marklmw]

Yup Lester's deal is up when?

 

I believe the same as Shields but do not take my word for it. That is why you hold on to Meyers. The only way you make the deal for Shields or Lester is if they had signed 4 year extensions.

[mvp 78]

Are you using this years numbers or numbers for 2011 & 2012? How about you take Lesters 2010 season. To me it appears that KC approached Boston but I could be wrong ... and I could be right.

 

His 2010 season is irrelevant and is never coming back at this point.

[User Name]

It doesn't matter whether or not KC approached the Red Sox (by all reports, they didn't). Once Shields and Davis were in play, Lester-for-Myers was never happening.

[marklmw]

His 2010 season is irrelevant and is never coming back at this point.

 

That's exactly what people said about Lackey. The Air Bud Soccer Movie was pretty good too!

[User Name]

Lackey's elbow was hanging by a thread. Apples to oranges.

[marklmw]

It doesn't matter whether or not KC approached the Red Sox (by all reports, they didn't). Once Shields and Davis were in play, Lester-for-Myers was never happening.

 

More speculation. I guess we will never know because I doubt that anyone in the Sox organization will admit that they passed on such an offer if there was one.

[User Name]

Had KC contacted the Red Sox on a straight-up trade of Lester for Myers, we would probably have Myers in right field, and Victorino's money would have gone towards another pitcher.

[Palodios]

After the end of 2012... career numbers for these guys :

Shields ERA 3.89, WHIP 1.223, ERA+ 107, K/9 7.7. Age 32. Pitching in the Trop his entire career.

Lester ERA 3.76, WHIP 1.306, ERA+ 119, K/9 8.2. Age 29. Pitching in Fenway his entire career.

 

Call me a homer, but I don't think there is a huge difference in the pitchers in 2012. What Shields made up for in innings, Lester makes up for in youth and park factors.

The major sticking point would have been the poor performance from Lester in 2012, and it seemed like everyone in baseball thought he had very obvious mechanical flaws that were probably fixable outside of the Valentine circus.

[User Name]

Yeah kind of a homer. Lester was (is?) on a noticeable downward trend in both velocity and performance, while Shields had just posted back-to-back excellent seasons with no noticeable decline in stuff, but rather scouts raving about the addition of a cutter to his repertoire and improved curveball.

 

I mean, how long does Lester get to live on the strength of his torrid 2008-2010 stretch? Look at the results for both pitchers this season in terms of ERA and ERA+. It's clear KC chose the correct pitcher. Let's not fool ourselves.

[Palodios]

Yeah kind of a homer. Lester was (is?) on a noticeable downward trend in both velocity and performance, while Shields had just posted back-to-back excellent seasons with no noticeable decline in stuff, but rather scouts raving about the addition of a cutter to his repertoire and improved curveball.

 

I mean, how long does Lester get to live on the strength of his torrid 2008-2010 stretch? Look at the results for both pitchers this season in terms of ERA and ERA+. It's clear KC chose the correct pitcher. Let's not fool ourselves.

 

KC absolutely made the right choice. I'm not debating that. But the stats from last offseason were much closer than they are right now.

[User Name]

KC absolutely made the right choice. I'm not debating that. But the stats from last offseason were much closer than they are right now.

 

Yeah but you can't look at it that way. What Lester did in 2009 with a mid 90's fastball and control of his cutter has no bearing on what he was going to do in 2013 with a low 90's fastball and a fading cutter.

[a700hitter]

I thought that Redford was a minor league player in real life.

[marklmw]

Lackey's elbow was hanging by a thread. Apples to oranges.

 

Not quite ... Apples to Apples really ... pitching is half mental and some say more than half.

[marklmw]

After the end of 2012... career numbers for these guys :

Shields ERA 3.89, WHIP 1.223, ERA+ 107, K/9 7.7. Age 32. Pitching in the Trop his entire career.

Lester ERA 3.76, WHIP 1.306, ERA+ 119, K/9 8.2. Age 29. Pitching in Fenway his entire career.

 

Call me a homer, but I don't think there is a huge difference in the pitchers in 2012. What Shields made up for in innings, Lester makes up for in youth and park factors.

The major sticking point would have been the poor performance from Lester in 2012, and it seemed like everyone in baseball thought he had very obvious mechanical flaws that were probably fixable outside of the Valentine circus.

 

Thank You Palodios. So it is possible that KC approached Boston

[marklmw]

Had KC contacted the Red Sox on a straight-up trade of Lester for Myers, we would probably have Myers in right field, and Victorino's money would have gone towards another pitcher.

 

Maybe one day the terms of such an offer will come to light. Either way Meyers is a stud and no one is happier than Longoria on how things turned out.

[User Name]

Not quite ... Apples to Apples really ... pitching is half mental and some say more than half.

 

Are you serious? Lackey's case is nothing like Lester's. This spits in the face of logic.

 

Thank You Palodios. So it is possible that KC approached Boston

 

Where's the logical connection here. Palodios himself admits Shields is the better pitcher right now and KC chose the right pitcher. What are you talking about?

[marklmw]

KC absolutely made the right choice. I'm not debating that. But the stats from last offseason were much closer than they are right now.

 

KC made a bad deal letting go of Meyers ... a player they would have under control for a while. There is not a pitcher in baseball that could make KC a contender. They were about 3 more seasons away from doing that type of deal.

[marklmw]

Are you serious? Lackey's case is nothing like Lester's. This spits in the face of logic.

 

 

 

Where's the logical connection here. Palodios himself admits Shields is the better pitcher right now and KC chose the right pitcher. What are you talking about?

 

Palodios made that claim when you include this years numbers. He said it was a wash at the time of this deal. The fact that you make a claim that Lester can never reach his 2010 numbers again is foolish.

[User Name]

Palodios made that claim when you include this years numbers. He said it was a wash at the time of this deal. The fact that you make a claim that Lester can never reach his 2010 numbers again is foolish.

 

Right, because when a player has three straight years of declining velocity, overall control and pitch movement, it's normal for them to reverse the trend and go back to posting the numbers they had when they were at their best. I'm sorry, but you're ridiculous.

 

Also, that was not the claim Palodios made. And it wasn't a "wash" at the time they made the deal. Lester was clearly declining, and Shields was pitching at ace level. Please stop being in denial.

[mvp 78]

That's exactly what people said about Lackey. The Air Bud Soccer Movie was pretty good too!

 

You and I are enemies. There is little about that abortion that is good. It goes 2 > 1 > 4 > 5 and 3 never happened.

 

You probable like the Air Buddies movies as well?

[italstallianion]

I only watched the basketball one. As far as I'm concerned there are no others. Just like there will never be more than 151 Pokémon.

[marklmw]

Right, because when a player has three straight years of declining velocity, overall control and pitch movement, it's normal for them to reverse the trend and go back to posting the numbers they had when they were at their best. I'm sorry, but you're ridiculous.

 

Also, that was not the claim Palodios made. And it wasn't a "wash" at the time they made the deal. Lester was clearly declining, and Shields was pitching at ace level. Please stop being in denial.

 

Here we are fighting over who was, is, and will be better Shields or Lester. This was never what the tread was about. Is it possible that KC approached Boston about Lester ... maybe they would have wanted Inglesias as well in the deal ... no one can say at this point unless Ben gets on WELI and tells Sox Nation what KC wanted for Meyers. I can only say that at the end of November ... I think the 27th that rumors were swirling about a Lester for Meyers deal. End of Story.

[marklmw]

You and I are enemies. There is little about that abortion that is good. It goes 2 > 1 > 4 > 5 and 3 never happened.

 

You probable like the Air Buddies movies as well?

 

To be honest ... I only knew of the Air Bud basketball and Soccer movies because my daughter liked these movies when she was young.

[User Name]

Late November 2012 there was great speculation that the Sox were going to deal Lester to KC for Minor League OF Prospect Wil Meyers. Meyers has made Baseball America's top 10 prospect list and had put up fantastic power numbers between AA and AAA in 2012. People weighed in on the deal and some were against it. Many were for it. The Sox had not attempted to extend Lester's present contract so the trade speculation seemed plausible. On December 9th the Tampa Bay Rays dealt SP James Shields and Wade Davis to KC for Wil

Meyers and Jake Odorizzi. KC lost once again. I think that KC would have preferred Lester over Shields so did Boston say no to the deal?

 

Meyers only 22 is tearing it up and had another 2 run shot last night and had a walk off single the game before that. Could you imagine the Sox having Meyers & Bogaerts going forward. Could have been our 3 and 4 hitter for the next 10 years. BTW ... this kid Meyers is like something out of the movie - The Natural ... he might be the only player in the majors that does not wear a batting glove ... unlike many players who now wear two. Any thoughts.

 

This, along with your threat of "watching Lester pitch for another team while watching Myers play 19 time a year" is the point of contention. There wasn't "great speculation". It was mentioned, then the story died. The Red Sox were never players for Myers, and implying otherwise and stringing together all of these unsupported assumptions is quite silly if you ask me.

[Bellhorn04]

Baseball GM's notoriously place a lot of emphasis on what the player did the previous season. They don't call it the 'contract year' for nothing.

 

Shields's 2012 season was so much better than Lester's, there's no way he wasn't preferable at that point in time.

[mvp 78]

To be honest ... I only knew of the Air Bud basketball and Soccer movies because my daughter liked these movies when she was young.

No Golden Receiver? No Air Bud Spikes Back?

[User Name]

Baseball GM's notoriously place a lot of emphasis on what the player did the previous season. They don't call it the 'contract year' for nothing.

 

Shields's 2012 season was so much better than Lester's, there's no way he wasn't preferable at that point in time.

 

He was also worlds better in 2011, which was (by far) Shields' best season.

[marklmw]

This, along with your threat of "watching Lester pitch for another team while watching Myers play 19 time a year" is the point of contention. There wasn't "great speculation". It was mentioned, then the story died. The Red Sox were never players for Myers, and implying otherwise and stringing together all of these unsupported assumptions is quite silly if you ask me.

 

Listen Trickey Dick ... The story was covered and it only died after Meyers went to Tampa ... sometimes the GM gets a man crush on a player. Happened with Lugo. Keep on eye on Meyers .... and we can let it die. Because not matter what I say you have to be a jerk and act all pompous.

[marklmw]

Baseball GM's notoriously place a lot of emphasis on what the player did the previous season. They don't call it the 'contract year' for nothing.

 

Shields's 2012 season was so much better than Lester's, there's no way he wasn't preferable at that point in time.

 

This thread was never about who was, is or will be better Lester or Shields.