Sox starting pitching

[BigPapi]

The sox starting pitching has been very good this year, as it is second in the al with a 3.79 era. There starting pitchers are also a combined 45 and 30. Simply put, there starting pitching has taken a huge leap from last year in the right direction. With buchholz not having pitched since june 8th, do u think the sox should bolster up there rotation by adding a man at the dead line or should they keep the rotation as it is?

[vjcsmoke]

Short answer yes. Buccholz health is the main issue for us.

Lester just put up 7 shutout innings to earn the win against the Orioles. I have confidence in Lester rounding into form for the stretch run.

 

But we need that extra starter because Buccholz is still a questionmark. But Lackey and Lester are our go to guys right now. Doubrount and Dempster are also keeping us into games. But that 5th starter is a ?? for the playoffs. And honestly I'd like to see an upgrade cos I don't have a ton of confidence in Dempster for a 4 man postseason rotation.

[BigPapi]

Short answer yes. Buccholz health is the main issue for us.

Lester just put up 7 shutout innings to earn the win against the Orioles. I have confidence in Lester rounding into form for the stretch run.

 

But we need that extra starter because Buccholz is still a questionmark. But Lackey and Lester are our go to guys right now. Doubrount and Dempster are also keeping us into games. But that 5th starter is a ?? for the playoffs. And honestly I'd like to see an upgrade cos I don't have a ton of confidence in Dempster for a 4 man postseason rotation.

 

 

True, true. I have similar thoughts.

[BigPapi]

Also, the sox starting pitchers as a staff actually have allowed the most walks in the al, but they havent let those wlaks hurt them.

[seabeachfred]

Also, the sox starting pitchers as a staff actually have allowed the most walks in the al, but they havent let those wlaks hurt them.

 

My guess is the Red Sox would like to add a solid starting pitcher to our mix but if the price is too high in their opinion they are going to just walk away. Can't blame them if the other team wants three or four of our better prospects for pitchers like Lee and Peavy, but, then again, when the hell is Buchholz going to be ready to get his ass out there and start pitching again, and is Jon Lester really "all the way back"?. Those are questions Cherington must answer this week.

[dupree]

3 or 4 top prospects is too much for that money for Lee and Peavy both... i could see two top 10 prospects and the Phillies picking up a lil of his contract. But reports say he not available as far as Lee goes and if the ChiSox want to keep Peavy let them. I think Lee would put us over the top for a pennant run this year but the prospects that will be given up could be the deal breaker. The money involved with Lee is not an issue id just say Amaro is asking for Boggy is why the deal hasnt went thru yet.

[jacksonianmarch]

The overall numbers have been good. But the guy who skewed those numbers has been on the shelf for a long time and a fresh TJS recovery is leading your staff in the ERA department right now. You need someone to help

[User Name]

Yeah, the guy who's on the shelf.

[SoxSport]

Yeah, the numbers have slipped the last couple months. They are 7th or 8th right now in AL pitching.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah, the numbers have slipped the last couple months. They are 7th or 8th right now in AL pitching.

 

In ERA, they're 7th, but they could be 3rd next week. The differences are pretty small. In park adjusted ERA+ they're even closer to the top.

[User Name]

Why do you insist on making s*** up? The Sox rotation ERA has actually improved in both June and July after a sub-par May.

 

Rotation ERA by month:

 

April: 3.24

May: 4.15

June: 3.96

July: 3.76

 

They also currently rank third in the AL in rotation ERA, and fifth in overall ERA. This stuff takes thirty seconds to look up. Stop making s*** up.

[User Name]

In ERA, they're 7th, but they could be 3rd next week. The differences are pretty small. In park adjusted ERA+ they're even closer to the top.

 

They're 5th in the AL in Fangraphs' updated rankings

[BigPapi]

I dont see why so many people think this roation sucks, even without buchholz.LAST YEAR, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR STARTERS HAD AN ERA THAT IS HIGHER THAN ANY OF THE ONES WE HAVE NOW! And if u look at the jobs stint starters like aceves at the beginning and now workman having a sub 3 era in his couple of starts, people have stepped up too fill buchholz spot. Not too mention how lester looks too be back on the swing and doubront is pitching very well. Lackey hasnt been sharp in his last 2 outings, but im sure he can regain form. Im not saying this success can continue, Im just saying people need too give credit too the very nice job the red sox starters have done thus far.

[mvp 78]

Did you have to write this in two separate posts? We got it the first time.

[BigPapi]

Did you have to write this in two separate posts? We got it the first time.

 

Sorry, thats my bad. I posted it in the wrong thread.

[mvp 78]

Stop making s*** up.

 

That's an uphill battle on here.

[mvp 78]

Sorry, thats my bad. I posted it in the wrong thread.

 

That's fine. Not a big deal. There are some serial offenders of doing this on here. It muddies all the conversations.

[SoxSport]

The main problem with the rotation right now is Buchholz. The guy hasn't pitched for 2 months and is still an unknown. It's remarkable they have been able to stay at or near the top without him.

 

The games against the Rays have exposed a real problem with their lineup--they don't have enough RHd power hitting when facing LHP. Moore and Price have beaten them 3 times the last 4 or 5 games. Middlebrooks was supposed to be their RHd power, but he was farmed out. Bogaerts is hitting well in AAA, but he's no help there. Pedey has been slumping in July as bad as Iggy, and has lost his power stroke this year.

 

The management is caught between a rock and a hard place. They have a stockpile of prospects in AAA they don't want to trade (at least that's what the media says), and they don't want to bring up. Sure they'll be up in September when the rosters expand, but that may be too late in this division.

Edited July 30, 2013 by SoxSport

[sk7326]

The main problem with the rotation right now is Buchholz. The guy hasn't pitched for 2 months and is still an unknown. It's remarkable they have been able to stay at or near the top without him.

 

The games against the Rays have exposed a real problem with their lineup--they don't have enough RHd power hitting when facing LHP. Moore and Price have beaten them 3 times the last 4 or 5 games. Middlebrooks was supposed to be their RHd power, but he was farmed out. Bogaerts is hitting well in AAA, but he's no help there. Pedey has been slumping in July as bad as Iggy, and has lost his power stroke this year.

 

The management is caught between a rock and a hard place. They have a stockpile of prospects in AAA they don't want to trade (at least that's what the media says), and they don't want to bring up. Sure they'll be up in September when the rosters expand, but that may be too late in this division.

 

The callups are where it becomes interesting. The corner options on the trade market are not improvements over what they have (a non-healthy Aramis Ramirez isn't, and Michael Young surely isn't). If Napoli could play any position other than 1st (and clearly they are committed to him not pretending to catch), that could open some opportunities. Middlebrooks is the safe option here - he struggled earlier in the season but he has shown he can at least hit a big league mistake. The real question is whether the team is ready to give Boegarts the wheel for the stretch run - how thoroughly impressive he has been in AA/AAA at his age is a serious eye opener - he might be a .240 hitter the rest of this season at the big league level, but with his batting eye he will get on base enough to be at least as effective as Snyder or Holt, with a lot more upside.

[SoxSport]

The callups are where it becomes interesting. The corner options on the trade market are not improvements over what they have (a non-healthy Aramis Ramirez isn't, and Michael Young surely isn't). If Napoli could play any position other than 1st (and clearly they are committed to him not pretending to catch), that could open some opportunities. Middlebrooks is the safe option here - he struggled earlier in the season but he has shown he can at least hit a big league mistake. The real question is whether the team is ready to give Boegarts the wheel for the stretch run - how thoroughly impressive he has been in AA/AAA at his age is a serious eye opener - he might be a .240 hitter the rest of this season at the big league level, but with his batting eye he will get on base enough to be at least as effective as Snyder or Holt, with a lot more upside.

 

That's the key. Even with Middlebrooks a .240 hitter and Bogaerts the same, they are better off with those two guys in the lineup against LHP than what they have right now. The trick is finding roster space in August. Clearly, they would prefer a veteran like Young at 3B right now. We'll see if they pull this deal off for Young and Lee. Getting Lee would give them a top 3 with Lester and Buchholz hard to beat in a playoffs series.

[Behindenemylines]

Sox may now have enough SP to get to the playoffs, but they need a healthy Buchholtz to do anything in the playoffs. Peavy no longer is an ace, but he is good pitcher that when healthy I think he is going to give you 6 to 7 innings per start and keep you in the game. Buchholtz at the beginning of the season was lights out like Price was against us on July 24 and 29, and that's who the Sox need taking the ball in game one of a playoff series. If Lester is back to form, then Peavy, and Lackey as your four that would be though in a series. You take a healthy Buchholtz out of the mix and it starts to become a little shaky. I can't see a deep run in the playoffs without a healthy Buchholtz. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

[sk7326]

Sox may now have enough SP to get to the playoffs, but they need a healthy Buchholtz to do anything in the playoffs. Peavy no longer is an ace, but he is good pitcher that when healthy I think he is going to give you 6 to 7 innings per start and keep you in the game. Buchholtz at the beginning of the season was lights out like Price was against us on July 24 and 29, and that's who the Sox need taking the ball in game one of a playoff series. If Lester is back to form, then Peavy, and Lackey as your four that would be though in a series. You take a healthy Buchholtz out of the mix and it starts to become a little shaky. I can't see a deep run in the playoffs without a healthy Buchholtz. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

This is all fair, although to win the world series you only need 3 good weeks of baseball ...

[jung]

Yea I think part of BC's thinking here is that he does not trust even the late August/early September return for Buch and I don't blame BC if that is where he is at.

 

He ends up giving Buch even more runway, out almost to the end of the regular season and hopes like hell that it is finally enough.

 

I am sure we would want Buch back ASAP but if pushed off to late September, he could still get a start or two going into post season and that could be OK as long as the Sox can make it into the tourney with Buch missing what would be maybe 6 or 7 more starts or something like that.

Edited July 31, 2013 by jung

[a700hitter]

Yea I think part of BC's thinking here is that he does not trust even the late August/early September return for Buch and I don't blame BC if that is where he is at.

 

He ends up giving Buch even more runway, out almost to the end of the regular season and hopes like hell that it is finally enough.

Buch's condition had to be the major driver for the Peavy move.

[Dojji]

I only agree to a point. I'm not convinced the team sees Buchholz as a key player to the greater plan going forward anymore. I think Peavy is a patch for this season and a potential Buchholz replacement going forward.

 

Quite frankly, the question everyone seems to be avoiding is what this long string of significant injuries means for Buchholz going forward. He just can't seem to throw two solid seasons in a row, and pitchers that have that problem don't tend to stay effective even when they are on the mound -- either they try to make a bad adjustment to their mechanics in an effort to stay healthy, or they simply lose their mechanics to enforced inactivity. That's right on the cusp of being THE defining issue for Buchholz and people are so focused on this year at the moment -- because they should be, we are right in contention -- that they're letting themselves whistle past the graveyard in terms of the broader significance of the problem.

 

I'm legitimately concerned that this year, or one of the next two, are going to be Buchholz' last in a big league uniform. Fragile starters don't keep getting chances, and even when they do, they eventually start failing them long before they "should" in a standard career arc. If there's a rationale to going out to getting a starting pitcher who has up to 2 years left on his deal, it's that. Peavy is no Iron Horse himself, not anymore, but he's more likely to make more than 27 starts in a given year than Buchholz is at this point.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Dojji

[dupree]

If Buch hadnt been lights out the first part of the season i would agree with you. But him having an impressive record in the first half and showing he could be an ace of a staff and another injury happen is unfortunate but i dont see the FO doing anything with him in the near future.

 

The signing of Peavy is a bridge to getting Buch back and not rushing him. In my opinion he should already been back but the Red Sox medical staff is not trusted and that feel they need to give the athlete the benefit of the doubt and just try to kiss it to make it better to not ripple the water. That and the price they got Peavy for couldnt be passed up. If he is close to what Dempster is which a lot on this site has compared him to. If he is or not as long as he can keep us in games and let the bats dominate like Dempster has then im fine with this trade.

 

Buch will be back at some point down the stretch and id rather have him at 100% that will bring us game 1 in any series, instead of a 75% healthy Buch that may cost us games down the stretch.

[Dojji]

If I'm Cherington, I can't count on Buchholz for anything next year. He can't figure into the planning because figuring him in will make the plan fail. Look at the history. Every year other than 2010 he has been Injured, Ineffective, or a combination of the two for most of the season.

 

I don't think Buchholz proved he can be the ace of the staff. The ace of the staff needs to be the best pitcher of course, but a real ace is also on the mound for 32 starts and more than 200 innings. Buchholz hasn't even showed the potential to do either one, so I don't call him the ace or even the #1 starter, on that basis alone, regardless of the level of skill he demonstrates when he actually is on the mound.

 

Put simply, an ace is dependable. He's dependable to make his start, to go deep into games, and to dominate frequently. Buchholz fails at the first pass. And that has to feature into the GM's thinking because he's not an idiot.

[sk7326]

The Peavy move is leverage either way. Red Sox rotation is good enough now with or without Buchholz. Maybe not 69 Orioles or nothin, but good enough to crank out competitive start after competitive start. If you step back and see, it's been almost three weeks since a starter REALLY did not perform.

[dupree]

You are correct the starting rotation has done their job these last few weeks. But i still dont think this team goes deep into the playoffs without Buch. The Peavy deal was to get us over to top and let us make the playoffs. Buch coming back and everyone pitching to their best is what will win us a world series baring any injuries.

[Dojji]

I don't think it was an over the top move per se, at least not with the up to 2 years of control we gained over Peavy.

 

i'm sure a chance to go over the top crossed Cherington's mind, don't get me wrong, but this is a medium-term move, not a short-term one.