Would you be OK trading Middlebrooks for Peavey and Crain?

[vjcsmoke]

The Red Sox definitely sound interested in Peavey. And Crain is another bullpen arm the White Sox have who might help us for the stretch run. Considering that Bogaerts is on the way up soon. That Middlebrooks was recently demoted with struggles, albeit still a very talented kid. And the fact we have a top 50 prospect at 3rd base named Cecchini, do you feel comfortable dealing a guy who could potentially be a perennial all-star at 3b if he hits his ceiling?

 

This kind of reminds me of the Hamley Ramirez situation. We got Beckett and a couple of WS rings out of it. But Ramirez turned into everything we expected and more. SO if the price for Peavey and Crain are Middlebrooks plus prospects, do you make that deal as the Red Sox?

[italstallianion]

I'm all for trading Middlebrooks, but I don't really want Peavy and I'm not sure how Crain's injury will effect his future stats, but if he is reasonably healthy I'd definitely trade for Crain. I'm not sure if I'd offer Middlebrooks for Crain straight up though.

[dduncan6er]

I make the deal and don't even think twice about it. But this is nothing like the Beckett trade. The players will not have nearly the impact that the guys in that deal did.

[Standing Room]

This was dicussed for at least a few pages in the Shoring Up the Rotation or the Trades Before the Deadline thread. I think the general consensus was yes, we would.

[mvp 78]

Not sure the ChiSox would do that deal unless more prospects were thrown in.

[User Name]

Also, Crain is injured.

[mvp 78]

Also, Crain is injured.

 

And won't pitch before the deadline. Too bad for the ChiSox.

[BSN07]

WMB for all Peavys money and a RP that's season is in jeopardy? Um not thanks.

[sk7326]

Not sure Peavy is the right price. That said, WMB is absolutely, 100% expendable. Not saying his future is dead, but a guy with that approach is not someone I bet a ton on.

[rjortiz]

This is an extreme sellers market. Middlebrooks alone doesn't get the deal done.

[Standing Room]

This is an extreme sellers market. Middlebrooks alone doesn't get the deal done.

 

No it's not. Teams just don't trade players early unless they're blown away with an offer. Once it's the actual deadline, they'll take whatever they can get because the alternative is to get nothing.

[italstallianion]

I think you're both right. I believe it is a seller's market because of the new playoff addition which makes more playoff spots, and as such more teams that think they are in contention, which makes more buyers than sellers at the deadline. (Teams really have to suck in order to be out of it by now to be sellers) I would also argue that teams that are buying for the playoffs/championship are more desperate to improve than the sellers are desperate to sell. (In other words I think not doing the deal is more harmful to the buyer than the seller)

 

That said, SR is right that as the deadline approaches, it evens out because the sellers have to lower their demands or risk not doing a deal and ending up with nothing for their players. Although theoretically they could still hold onto a majority of their players with qualifying offers or get draft picks, right?

[User Name]

There are a lot of teams selling this year though.

[Standing Room]

To be honest, I don't think the second wild card has affected the market that much this year. There aren't too many teams who are close in the second wild card and aren't close in their division and hence would probably not sell even if there wasn't a second wild card.

[sk7326]

seller's market early for sure - late, a matter of how much a team wants to move somebody. White Sox price could move down - and if it means the Sox can move one or two of their "non-untouchable but ok" prospects (Middlebrooks IMO, Marrero, Ranaudo, Brentz) so be it.

[BigPapi]

I guess. Its crazy too see how much talent the red sox have on the left side of the infield, with cecchini, bogaerts, middlebrooks, iggy, and even marrero although hes young.

[dupree]

Funny what a year makes. Last year everyone was so big on middlebrooks and now since the kid has struggled in the sophomore slump everyone wants to trade him away like hes washed up and garbage to us and that he will bring us back a title just by him being traded for a pitcher. Unless it was for an Ace i wouldnt move the kid. He has shown he can hit major league pitching and do it with power. I think we need pitching dont get me wrong and it needs to be a starter, we need bullpen help as well but i think the guys in the minors can come up and fill that role that being said Middlebrooks is young and under team control for years and if given a chance and time he can be what he was last year for us. I think it would bite us in the ass for years to come if he was traded away for a #3 starter. If he was to be traded away and id hate to see it i think he needs to go for an ace not a #3. We are a team of #3s we need a #1.

[sk7326]

Funny what a year makes. Last year everyone was so big on middlebrooks and now since the kid has struggled in the sophomore slump everyone wants to trade him away like hes washed up and garbage to us and that he will bring us back a title just by him being traded for a pitcher. Unless it was for an Ace i wouldnt move the kid. He has shown he can hit major league pitching and do it with power. I think we need pitching dont get me wrong and it needs to be a starter, we need bullpen help as well but i think the guys in the minors can come up and fill that role that being said Middlebrooks is young and under team control for years and if given a chance and time he can be what he was last year for us. I think it would bite us in the ass for years to come if he was traded away for a #3 starter. If he was to be traded away and id hate to see it i think he needs to go for an ace not a #3. We are a team of #3s we need a #1.

 

It is not overreacting - and his ability to hit big league pitching and put together big league at-bats is very much an open question.. He also wasn't very good last year either. He had a couple of good stretches, but the pitch recognition is poor and has been a problem since his minor league days. That is really hard to overcome. Let's put it this way - superior pitch recognition is what has kept Drew as a .225 hitter from being a total zero offensively. Being as much of a hacker as Middlebrooks has shown can work if you have generational contact ability like Garciaparra did or Vlad Guerrero did. Middlebrooks doesn't square up that many balls.

[jacksonianmarch]

This is an extreme sellers market. Middlebrooks alone doesn't get the deal done.

 

Exactly, and right now Peavy is the best starter on an uber thin starters market. He's going to return a king's ransom

[User Name]

It is not overreacting - and his ability to hit big league pitching and put together big league at-bats is very much an open question.. He also wasn't very good last year either. He had a couple of good stretches, but the pitch recognition is poor and has been a problem since his minor league days. That is really hard to overcome. Let's put it this way - superior pitch recognition is what has kept Drew as a .225 hitter from being a total zero offensively. Being as much of a hacker as Middlebrooks has shown can work if you have generational contact ability like Garciaparra did or Vlad Guerrero did. Middlebrooks doesn't square up that many balls.

 

This is flat out fallacy. He was great last year, then got injured. The problem is that pitchers adjusted to him and he didn't manage to make adjustments as well.

[SoxSport]

I don't know if Peavy is worth the climb. He's too close to Dempster, and Dempster is a 4-5 starter right now. Not the "innings eater" he was supposed to be. What they need is Buchholz. This guy is one big pain in the neck. He could cost them the season.

[jacksonianmarch]

Have you looked at Peavy's numbers? Yeah, his ERA isn't great, but the guy has a 1.14WHIP, nearly a K per inning and a walk rate that is insanely low. He's healthy too and he's under team control past this season. He's worth a lot.

[sk7326]

This is flat out fallacy. He was great last year, then got injured. The problem is that pitchers adjusted to him and he didn't manage to make adjustments as well.

 

Flashes of potential. Good power, microscopic walk rate and struck out a ton. Pitchers realized they don't have to throw him strikes. This is not a sudden thing - this has been an issue throughout his minor league career too. A lot of his success was tied in a high BABIP - his approach is a real problem that he needs to fix. I am skeptical whether he really can - approach is often born not developed. His issues are exacerbated by whom he replaced - since Youk was this team's best hitter before his body started to fall apart.

[sk7326]

I don't know if Peavy is worth the climb. He's too close to Dempster, and Dempster is a 4-5 starter right now. Not the "innings eater" he was supposed to be. What they need is Buchholz. This guy is one big pain in the neck. He could cost them the season.

 

Peavy has excellent strikeout and walk numbers, and got them 219 IP last year and has been averaging 6+ IP per start. He is pretty dependable. The contract is not great, but that NESN money might as well go somewhere. The record is not great - but friends don't let friends use pitcher wins for a measure of anything. He will be expensive, but the Red Sox DO have the prospect depth to put a solid package without giving up a Boegarts/Cecchini level prospect.

[Behindenemylines]

I'm okay with moving Middlebrooks as part of a deal to get Peavy. Both Bogaerts at AAA and Cecchini at AA look like better long term solutions at 3B for the Sox.

[marklmw]

I'm okay with moving Middlebrooks as part of a deal to get Peavy. Both Bogaerts at AAA and Cecchini at AA look like better long term solutions at 3B for the Sox.

 

I agree with you. But I am thinking straight up. Sox eat Peavy's contract

[Dojji]

I have no problem with the Middlebrooks part of the deal. We can take that hit easily enough.

 

I have no particular desire for Jake Peavy. He's not worth the investment, and I have no desire to take a pitcher who's been both healthy and effective at the same time for only 1 year in the last 4 and move him to the toughest division in baseball. That spells "highly expensive disaster" in large flaming letters.

 

This is THE ABSOLUTE LAST DIVISION IN BASEBALL where you DARE to make a move for a player based on name recognition from multiple seasons ago. Peavy's had exactly one season worth talking about since 2008, and that counts this year. I don't like his odds of doing what he's paid to do if he comes here, and giving up talent on top of it, to say nothing of 2 more years? That's a complete no-go.

 

If we're overpaying for a pitcher, it had better be a pitcher able to play up to his own pitching ability, consistently, even with a spotty defense behind him, and be able to do it for 200 innings. Does that sound like Jake Peavy to any sane person here?

 

I'd pay a whole heck of a lot more than Middlebrooks for an ACTUAL top starter rather than paying less talent for the "privilege" of clogging my team's salary and roster space space with an expensive, often-injured has-been. That's the crux of my problem with Garza too.

 

We don't need #3's, those we have. We don't need pitchers who are decent when actually pitching but have more than a coin toss's chance of pulling up lame at a moment's notice, and at the worst possible times. Buchholz has that angle covered. And we certainly have no need of the damage to our cash flexibility Peavey would do even if he doesn't bust out utterly, which I wouldn't dare to rule out considering how actual healthy consistent pitchers have fared in the past when they came to Boston.

 

When it comes to upgrading our Rotation, Peavy is a big step sideways with some serious potential negatives. Take one of these two options instead: Ramp up for a championship run now by bringing in an actual stud like a Shields type, preferably Shields himself who's nothing if not durable and who won't impact our cap space down the road. Or, alternatively, don't bother.

 

I don't think our chances of going all the way are fantastic this year, so I'm not sure how heavily we should be buying starting pitching right now. But if we do, it's because we're Going For It, and if that's true, the last thing you want to do is leave anything on the table, or try to do your shopping in the bargain bin.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Dojji

[vjcsmoke]

I have no problem with the Middlebrooks part of the deal. We can take that hit easily enough.

 

I have no particular desire for Jake Peavy. He's not worth the investment, and I have no desire to take a pitcher who's been both healthy and effective at the same time for only 1 year in the last 4 and move him to the toughest division in baseball. That spells "highly expensive disaster" in large flaming letters.

 

LOL how is Peavey a has-been? As lately as last year, 2012, he posted 219 IP with a 3.37 ERA and 1.09 WHIP in the AL and made the All-star team.

This year his era is higher at 4.28 but his whip is about the same at 1.13 and his K/9 rating is the best it has been in the past 3 years at 8.6.

 

It looks to me like Peavey is coming off injury but has rounded back into form the past couple of years. Considering you are talking about a former Cy Young award winner who is still only 32, I think if you can acquire him for a guy who doesn't fit on the team long term anymore, Peavy is not the worst you can do, particularly if the white sox will throw in a bullpen arm who can help us down the stretch.

 

It's also possible that the White Sox might even be willing to eat some of that salary to get him off the books. Peavy for 15m per year is a lot, but for 10m per year with the White Sox picking up 5? That's pretty darn reasonable. I think what you are getting with Peavy at this stage of his career is a rich man's Derek Lowe. And that's not bad to have when you are making a playoff run.

[BigPapi]

Sure, since peavy is only 32 and although has a higher era on the season, i dont see why he couldnt be a mid 3 era pitcher for us. But, now with the white sox gm saying that he would want bogaerts for peavy, i wouldnt be willing to do that.

[Julian]

Forget Peavey. Why not use Workman until he shows he cannot pitch in the Big Leagues.

 

 

Keep Middlebrook!