Shoring Up the Rotation

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think you are letting your optimistic imagination run wild a bit. I'd be happy if one of them became a reliable, productive major league starter.

 

I think you're letting your pessimism run wild a bit.

 

I think the likliest scenario is that one reaches his potential, one fizzles out completely, and one reaches about 70-80% of his potential, which would be a back end starter or a very good reliever.

[Standing Room]

Way too early to be concerned. Dempster is the only guy who we're going to lean on for innings and isn't pitching well. Our overall production has been really good.

[mvp 78]

Way too early to be concerned. Dempster is the only guy who we're going to lean on for innings and isn't pitching well. Our overall production has been really good.

 

We're not leaning on innings from Lackey anymore?

[Standing Room]

You think Lackey isn't pitching well?

[Standing Room]

For the record, among MLB teams our rotation ranks 4th in WAR and 5th in xFIP. We've had one of the better rotations in baseball. I'd also say we have above average pitching depth with guys like Morales, Webster, De La Rosa and Ranaudo available as spot starters.

[mvp 78]

You think Lackey isn't pitching well?

 

He's been blah. Can't say Dempster is pitching much worse than him. Add in the runs that should be charged to him for his own errors and his ERA+ would be worse.

[BigDean1]

Except for Dempster imploding in his last three starts, I believe the starting pitching has been okay. What I would really like to see is a long reliever who can be counted on. Dare I saw that Derek Lowe is a free agent and might be able to fill that void. Clayton Mortensen is out of options.

[Standing Room]

John Lackey has been blah? He has a 3.31 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, 3.23 xFIP, 8.82 K/9, 2.20 BB/9 and there's nothing in any of his peripherals that suggest it's due to luck. Hell, if Vernon Wells can perform like it's 2008, why can't Lackey perform like it's 2009?

[User Name]

Except for Dempster imploding in his last three starts, I believe the starting pitching has been okay. What I would really like to see is a long reliever who can be counted on. Dare I saw that Derek Lowe is a free agent and might be able to fill that void. Clayton Mortensen is out of options.

 

Lowe? Ewwwww.

 

There are better options out there.

[mvp 78]

Add in the runs that should be charged to him for his own errors and his ERA+ would be worse.

 

Guess some people have trouble with reading? Not that big of a surprise around here though.

[Standing Room]

Don't be a dick. The one error he made all season doesn't explain away his terrific peripherals. The guy's pitched well. Plus, you're ignoring the game where he was charged earned runs that scored on an infield pop up lost in the dome at Tropicana.

[User Name]

Lackey's been decent, but there are valid reasons to doubt he can hold that level of performance for the rest of the season. Not because of peripherals (they are all excellent) but because of his age and the injury he's coming back from.

 

Time will tell.

[mvp 78]

Don't be a dick. The one error he made all season doesn't explain away his terrific peripherals. The guy's pitched well. Plus, you're ignoring the game where he was charged earned runs that scored on an infield pop up lost in the dome at Tropicana.

 

"I" can't be a dick, but you can talk s*** about how horrible TS is, get banned for the twentieth time and still comeback a few months later. Obviously, this place must not be so bad, imperial.

[a700hitter]

For the record, among MLB teams our rotation ranks 4th in WAR and 5th in xFIP. We've had one of the better rotations in baseball. I'd also say we have above average pitching depth with guys like Morales, Webster, De La Rosa and Ranaudo available as spot starters.

 

No it isn't.

[Palodios]

The interesting thing about John Lackey is that the last time he had a healthy arm -- arguably 2009 -- baseball was in a different era with better hitters. Lackey's in the best shape of his career, and he's only pitching slightly better than his career numbers.

 

I'd argue the biggest concern is long term issues with his arm, or durability because he didn't pitch at all in 2012.

[seabeachfred]

Dempster is imploding. The guy looked to be pitching well through April, although his peripherals were a little interesting. ERA of 3.30 in April with an insane 43K in 30IP, but his walk rate was over 4 for that month. Fast forward to May where he is getting hit a little more (29H in 25.2IP), but the walk rate has multiplied. He's walked 24 in 25.2IP this month. Its strange since he's generally a pretty good control guy with a walk rate generally in the mid 3's per 9 innings. I wonder if it is mechanical, the league adjusting or an injury

 

Red Sox fans had better hope it's mechanical Jacko, and it can be worked out in side sessions because if it isn't the team is in deep s***. Dempster has made the word Dumpster look good in comparison of late and it points out why we may struggle unless a couple of pitchers rise and join up with the two good starters we have, not to mention we finally learn how to hit again. We have some real turds in our lineup right now and now joined by the biggest non-hitting bum of them all, the immortal Jose Iglesias.

[seabeachfred]

De La Rosa is not meant for the pen and should not go there. Stretch him out. Webster, Rosa, Ranaudo (sp?) are capable of being wicked in the rotation.

 

Please RSB, get a grip. None of three have set the minors on fire yet and they have as much chance of being washouts as stalwarts. Keep in mind we haven't been too successful in developing good pitchers since Lester and Buchholz. Still, I suppose a little optimism is good for all of us right about now.

[Palodios]

Please RSB, get a grip. None of three have set the minors on fire yet and they have as much chance of being washouts as stalwarts. Keep in mind we haven't been too successful in developing good pitchers since Lester and Buchholz. Still, I suppose a little optimism is good for all of us right about now.

 

Actually, yeah, they have been lighting the minors on fire.

 

Webster -- 2.40 ERA, 1.03 WHIP, .156 BAA in AAA.

Ranaudo -- 1.67 ERA, .90 WHIP, .176 BAA.

De La Rosa -- 3.65 ERA, .180 BAA... but has allowed only 1 run in the last 18 innings.

[User Name]

This is why you need to do research before you post so you don't stick your foot firmly in your mouth Fred, and i mean this with no disrespect.

[Spitball]

Actually, yeah, they have been lighting the minors on fire.

 

Webster -- 2.40 ERA, 1.03 WHIP, .156 BAA in AAA.

Ranaudo -- 1.67 ERA, .90 WHIP, .176 BAA.

De La Rosa -- 3.65 ERA, .180 BAA... but has allowed only 1 run in the last 18 innings.

 

Haha! Fred is certainly entertaining. Nicely researched, Pal.

[italstallianion]

I definitely think if Doubront can string together a few good starts it will go a long way to determining the standing of this team, especially before the trade deadline.

[Standing Room]

No one should under any circumstances like John Lackey. He feeds on our negativity.

 

[SoxSport]

Looks like Lackey is taking a serious shot at being the #3 starter. Dempster is pitching like a lot of people thought he would--he sucks. The FO threw a lot of money around pre-season--or should I say wasted a lot of money--because it was there to spend. Victorino used to be a nice player, but I'm afraid he too is on the downside--can't stay healthy at age 32. Keep your fingers crossed on Napoli. Drew is another who will probably guarantee Iggy some time at SS.

[a700hitter]

Looks like Lackey is taking a serious shot at being the #3 starter. Dempster is pitching like a lot of people thought he would--he sucks. The FO threw a lot of money around pre-season--or should I say wasted a lot of money--because it was there to spend. Victorino used to be a nice player, but I'm afraid he too is on the downside--can't stay healthy at age 32. Keep your fingers crossed on Napoli. Drew is another who will probably guarantee Iggy some time at SS.

Lackey is playing like a horse-face on a mission.

[italstallianion]

And Dempster has had some very good starts early on. I wouldn't write him off yet.

[seabeachfred]

Haha! Fred is certainly entertaining. Nicely researched, Pal.

 

With all due respect gentlemen Spitball User and Pal, I don't consider a month-plus of good work as lighting it up. Can we wait until the season is near its end before we annoint these guys as the new Three Musketeers. Remember we were 22-8 at one point and some were thinking big things until we came down to earth and some reality. I was aware of Renaudo because I was a big supporter of his when he was at LSU, and I know Webster has come around, but I want to see this over a whole season before I give them the high sign. You've heard the term----"Consistency thou art jewel". Well my friends let's see a little more production over a longer period of time and some more consistentcy.

 

Also keep in mind that their previous minor league accomplishments made no one claim them to be the next coming of Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez or Curt Schilling. I will wait a little longer before jumping on the bandwagon. In the meantime Spitball, I'll keep trying to entertain you when I get my foot out of my mouth User

 

Now as for John Lackey tonight and last Sunday, maybe we've found our big No. 3 guy.....maybe!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

With all due respect gentlemen Spitball User and Pal, I don't consider a month-plus of good work as lighting it up. Can we wait until the season is near its end before we annoint these guys as the new Three Musketeers. Remember we were 22-8 at one point and some were thinking big things until we came down to earth and some reality. I was aware of Renaudo because I was a big supporter of his when he was at LSU, and I know Webster has come around, but I want to see this over a whole season before I give them the high sign. You've heard the term----"Consistency thou art jewel". Well my friends let's see a little more production over a longer period of time and some more consistentcy.

 

Also keep in mind that their previous minor league accomplishments made no one claim them to be the next coming of Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez or Curt Schilling. I will wait a little longer before jumping on the bandwagon. In the meantime Spitball, I'll keep trying to entertain you when I get my foot out of my mouth User

 

Now as for John Lackey tonight and last Sunday, maybe we've found our big No. 3 guy.....maybe!!!!!!

Renaudo looked like a busted prospect until his resurgence this year. They are still stretching out Rubby. He hasn't gone more than 4 inning yet. We will be waiting for forever to see these 3 together in our rotation.

[reYoukilis]

Looks like Lackey is taking a serious shot at being the #3 starter. Dempster is pitching like a lot of people thought he would--he sucks. The FO threw a lot of money around pre-season--or should I say wasted a lot of money--because it was there to spend. Victorino used to be a nice player, but I'm afraid he too is on the downside--can't stay healthy at age 32. Keep your fingers crossed on Napoli. Drew is another who will probably guarantee Iggy some time at SS.

 

Again, assuming age is the culprit with Victorino, like people did with Ortiz. Always ready to throw people away.

 

I wish there was a chart showing what people said so we can see how little credibility they really have.

[a700hitter]

Again, assuming age is the culprit with Victorino, like people did with Ortiz. Always ready to throw people away.

 

I wish there was a chart showing what people said so we can see how little credibility they really have.

Age has a lot of credibility. It eventually gets every athlete. When they get to their mid 30's they are on borrowed time. Writing their obituaries in their early 30's is a little pre-mature.

[User Name]

With all due respect gentlemen Spitball User and Pal, I don't consider a month-plus of good work as lighting it up. Can we wait until the season is near its end before we annoint these guys as the new Three Musketeers. Remember we were 22-8 at one point and some were thinking big things until we came down to earth and some reality. I was aware of Renaudo because I was a big supporter of his when he was at LSU, and I know Webster has come around, but I want to see this over a whole season before I give them the high sign. You've heard the term----"Consistency thou art jewel". Well my friends let's see a little more production over a longer period of time and some more consistentcy.

 

Also keep in mind that their previous minor league accomplishments made no one claim them to be the next coming of Roger Clemens or Pedro Martinez or Curt Schilling. I will wait a little longer before jumping on the bandwagon. In the meantime Spitball, I'll keep trying to entertain you when I get my foot out of my mouth User

 

Now as for John Lackey tonight and last Sunday, maybe we've found our big No. 3 guy.....maybe!!!!!!

 

Fred, the problem seems to be one of miscommunication here. No one here has annointed any of them as anything. What was mentioned was their potential. You took that and went with it.