Sources say Napoli signs with Sox.

[BSN07]

My guess is that they found something that could be chronic and are working in some language to protect themselves if he misses a specified amount of time with said injury

It's a possibility. they did it for Both Drew and Lackey.

I think what's happening here is they want to sign Swisher to play 1B, keep Ells in CF into next year, and play Napoli mainly at catcher. This increases their concern about his ankle. And they have a history of modifying contracts (eg, Drew) because of previous injuries. One regret they may have is AdGon's contract, which omitted any provision about his shoulder. And Adgon hasn't been the same hitter he was in SD since his shoulder op. They were very lucky to get out of his contract.

 

The recent trades may have affected their thinking--they might see Hamilton as staying in Texas now, since Texas didn't get Greinke and Upton isn't being traded because the DBacks got their SS. That means their fallback, Swisher, may now be in play for them--which shifts their thinking somewhat on Napoli--more towards catcher than 1B. Hence, the increased ankle concern.

 

Just some speculation based on what I've read. They have a bunch of money to spend, and I think the value they see is more in Swisher/Hamilton than the pitching. Plus they now have several excellent prospects who could fit into the rotation soon. They are in a position to outbid everybody except the LA Fox teams for anybody they want--except maybe Hamilton, who might take less to stay in Texas.

 

I don't think we can pencil Napoli in as a C at the moment. Going to have to wait to see what this possible failed physical was caused by. If he has some knee issue he won't be catching anymore period.

[User Name]

I'm thinking he failed his physical.

 

Something tells me this isn't just Boston working out an injury clause... if that was the case they never would have scheduled an announcement before they knew the deal was finalized.

 

I'm also starting to think that John Henry's investment losses, and Liverpool losses are making him cheap out on the Red Sox. Since Henry became owner the Sox haven't been this frugal.

 

There were a couple of pitchers who were no-brainer signings that should have been made considering the rotation's severe lack of depth but the Sox didn't take the risk. They opted for a $5M left-fielder in Jonny Gomes, a $13M right fielder in Shane Victorino. Neither of which can realistically be expected to contribute very much in 2013 and beyond.

 

They're likely to pass on a very reasonably priced Josh Hamilton. Where else are you going to sign a 40 home run hitter, who is still in his prime, and who posts a decent average and OBP for $100M or less?

 

Part of me thinks JH is trying to keep the payroll down so that the team is more attractive to a new buyer should he decide to sell.

 

Also, did anybody catch the rumor today about the Sox still being in the picture on Swisher? Maybe it's related to the Napoli fallout.

 

So he's trying to keep payroll down to make the team attractive (which doesn't make any goddamned sense, since the better built a team is, the higher the price) in your opinion, but you're complaining about them spending big on Gomes, Napoli and Victorino in the same post? Be consistent with your thought process.

[dupree]

I'm thinking he failed his physical.

 

Something tells me this isn't just Boston working out an injury clause... if that was the case they never would have scheduled an announcement before they knew the deal was finalized.

 

I'm also starting to think that John Henry's investment losses, and Liverpool losses are making him cheap out on the Red Sox. Since Henry became owner the Sox haven't been this frugal.

 

There were a couple of pitchers who were no-brainer signings that should have been made considering the rotation's severe lack of depth but the Sox didn't take the risk. They opted for a $5M left-fielder in Jonny Gomes, a $13M right fielder in Shane Victorino. Neither of which can realistically be expected to contribute very much in 2013 and beyond.

 

They're likely to pass on a very reasonably priced Josh Hamilton. Where else are you going to sign a 40 home run hitter, who is still in his prime, and who posts a decent average and OBP for $100M or less?

 

Part of me thinks JH is trying to keep the payroll down so that the team is more attractive to a new buyer should he decide to sell.

 

Also, did anybody catch the rumor today about the Sox still being in the picture on Swisher? Maybe it's related to the Napoli fallout.

 

I agree 100%... I think that since the ownership has purchased the soccer team it has went all downhill. I wished they would sell the team &in get oowners who want to spend. Look they got out of some big bad contracts. Hamilton needss to be in boston. Swisher a Wnd option if not Hamilton. Also if the Nap deal falls thru go get Adam LaRoche now before the Nationals gets him back

[User Name]

The "soccer team is culprit" idea is massive failthought. The Red Sox fielded the two most expensive Red Sox teams in history after Henry bought Liverpool.

 

The reason they're controlling spending is because throwing around gobs of money in 2010 and 2011 got them nowhere.

[dupree]

The "soccer team is culprit" idea is massive failthought. The Red Sox fielded the two most expensive Red Sox teams in history after Henry bought Liverpool.

 

The reason they're controlling spending is because throwing around gobs of money in 2010 and 2011 got them nowhere.

 

So whats the answer User Name?

Everytime someone posts a need for spending money to get players & then you comment "oh no thats a bad move too much of an overpay."

This is Boston not Oakland we buy talent to make these teams year in & year out better to go along with our top prospects coming up from the farm. 2004 & 2007 has changed the whole outlook on each season we dont want rebuilds we want championships.

Now after the salary dump of s*** players to LA they have the money to spend so let them spend it... they didnt do that trade & just said aww hell we are just gonna be a midmarket team no its not going to happen they are going to spend and i hope they do soon that way all the people thinking everyplayer is an over pay and just waiting the FO to sit on their nuts and do nothing we have the pieces to compete now with a string core we just need two pitchers maybe another pen piece and a bat to hit third in the order then we go from competitive to the head of the class... baring no injuries and the players mesh together so I say spend spend spend!!!!

[User Name]

So whats the answer User Name?

Everytime someone posts a need for spending money to get players & then you comment "oh no thats a bad move too much of an overpay."

This is Boston not Oakland we buy talent to make these teams year in & year out better to go along with our top prospects coming up from the farm. 2004 & 2007 has changed the whole outlook on each season we dont want rebuilds we want championships.

Now after the salary dump of s*** players to LA they have the money to spend so let them spend it... they didnt do that trade & just said aww hell we are just gonna be a midmarket team no its not going to happen they are going to spend and i hope they do soon that way all the people thinking everyplayer is an over pay and just waiting the FO to sit on their nuts and do nothing we have the pieces to compete now with a string core we just need two pitchers maybe another pen piece and a bat to hit third in the order then we go from competitive to the head of the class... baring no injuries and the players mesh together so I say spend spend spend!!!!

 

So because by spending a lot of money they basically f***ed the roster beyond salvation but got lucky enough to get bailed out by the Dodgers, they should turn around and do the exact same thing expecting different results? That's the textbook definition of insanity. No, they're not Oakland, but that doesn't mean they should spend their money like drunken sailors. Stupid contracts plus a more astringent CBA gets you a 2012 do-over.

 

The sense of entitlement about how much money the team should spend is part of the reason this team is where it's at right now. The stupid spending had to stop, and it has. Invest in smarter, shorter-term contracts and let some young talent flow to the big league roster.

[dupree]

So because by spending a lot of money they basically f***ed the roster beyond salvation but got lucky enough to get bailed out by the Dodgers, they should turn around and do the exact same thing expecting different results? That's the textbook definition of insanity. No, they're not Oakland, but that doesn't mean they should spend their money like drunken sailors. Stupid contracts plus a more astringent CBA gets you a 2012 do-over.

 

The sense of entitlement about how much money the team should spend is part of the reason this team is where it's at right now. The stupid spending had to stop, and it has. Invest in smarter, shorter-term contracts and let some young talent flow to the big league roster.

 

Textbook definition of insanity... they have made a couple of moves this offseason to address some of the issues... smart moves that remains to be seen. 8m not saying to break the bank & spend on every free agent this offseason and screw your for next season and not be able to spend next year on better talent... i agree short term contracts for pitching is the way to go agree 100% i think those moves should come via trade this year. But as far as the lineup and the ballpark of fenway you have to have a team that can crush the ball and any given inning be able to go on a run when the pitching lets you down and no matter who the five starters are at some point they give up a big inning so a bat needs to be gotten for the three hole plain and simple whether you are into breaking the bank for FA players of trading to get players moves need to be made and game changing players dont come along everyday and the only game changing player is hamilton he has had injuries but use contractual language that protects yourself. A guy like hamilton when slotted in their at #3 changes the whole lineup

[User Name]

Textbook definition of insanity... they have made a couple of moves this offseason to address some of the issues... smart moves that remains to be seen. 8m not saying to break the bank & spend on every free agent this offseason and screw your for next season and not be able to spend next year on better talent... i agree short term contracts for pitching is the way to go agree 100% i think those moves should come via trade this year. But as far as the lineup and the ballpark of fenway you have to have a team that can crush the ball and any given inning be able to go on a run when the pitching lets you down and no matter who the five starters are at some point they give up a big inning so a bat needs to be gotten for the three hole plain and simple whether you are into breaking the bank for FA players of trading to get players moves need to be made and game changing players dont come along everyday and the only game changing player is hamilton he has had injuries but use contractual language that protects yourself. A guy like hamilton when slotted in their at #3 changes the whole lineup

 

The problem with Hamilton is that even though he's an elite talent, he comes in with a ton of question marks ranging from health to his addictions to his ability to handle Boston.

 

And for as much as we keep talking about Hamilton, where's the pitching?

 

Buster Olney says the Sox are positioned to pound on some of the remaining pitchers as the market settles.

[jung]

And why is it that they will pounce on the pitching remnants having passed on the meat and potatoes? Granted this year's menu is pretty light on interesting candidates but this pounce at the end thing smacks of being ready to pounce on the guys nobody else wants when you consider who is off the board already.

 

Their "pounce" seems more like the last gasp of an aging king of the jungle short a few fangs and way to long in the years.

[BSN07]

Because the difference between the "interesting candidates" and the guys "that can be pounced on late" performance wise is not much. Might as well spend less.

[dupree]

The problem with Hamilton is that even though he's an elite talent, he comes in with a ton of question marks ranging from health to his addictions to his ability to handle Boston.

 

And for as much as we keep talking about Hamilton, where's the pitching?

 

Buster Olney says the Sox are positioned to pound on some of the remaining pitchers as the market settles.

 

Hamilton does have question marks more than most but still i think with the market showing signs on blaking on his 7 year request is amazing for the league as a whole but i see him slotted in the 3 spot and the potential he brings to this lineup and team when we have an outfield of gomes ells and victorino we dont have that pop when our lineup as it sits now has question marks as far as pop goes... ortiz could start off cold like he has in years past nap could have an injury that no one knows about this will affect the lower half where he generates his power... pedoria i hope is the laser show i hope ells returns to mvp form but he is fragile like glass but when healthy he is lights out... most of all i hope. Tmiddlebrooks hits 30 and drives in 100

[Bellhorn04]

Because the difference between the "interesting candidates" and the guys "that can be pounced on late" performance wise is not much. Might as well spend less.

 

But how sure are we that prices are going to go down? The list of who's left is shorter, but aren't there still a lot of teams with money to spend?

 

Haven't seen any bargain signings yet.

[User Name]

And why is it that they will pounce on the pitching remnants having passed on the meat and potatoes? Granted this year's menu is pretty light on interesting candidates but this pounce at the end thing smacks of being ready to pounce on the guys nobody else wants when you consider who is off the board already.

 

Their "pounce" seems more like the last gasp of an aging king of the jungle short a few fangs and way to long in the years.

 

Would you not think the rotation to be significantly better than last year if they added Edwin Jackson and Shawn Marcum plus a couple of depth guys like Jair Jurrjens and Dallas Braden?

 

I would think so. Now i'm not saying that's what they will do, but it's definitely what they should do.

[Lord Snow]

So he's trying to keep payroll down to make the team attractive (which doesn't make any goddamned sense, since the better built a team is, the higher the price) in your opinion, but you're complaining about them spending big on Gomes, Napoli and Victorino in the same post? Be consistent with your thought process.

 

Not true, if a potential owner has x amount of dollars to spend on a club, and the club has $200M in contracts, rather than $100M in contracts, that's an extra $100M or so the new owner has to pay out of pocket which is a significant chunk of change.

 

Most ownership groups like to be able to build their own team, start with a clean slate, not work with what they're given

 

I don't necessarily think Henry is selling. But I can see the possibility of it happening in the next year or two.

 

I look at two of the better high risk pitchers on the market, Dan Haren & Brandon McCarthy, and both are signed, and not in a Boston uniform. Yeah they didn't come dirt cheap but you're telling me Theo Epstein wouldn't have signed those guys 4-5 years ago? This team has changed. The FO has changed. They used to try to make a splash to fix the team every off-season. This year there were/are some parts the Sox probably should be gambling on and they're sitting back.

 

I understand there are concerns about Josh Hamilton, but the Sox need a left-fielder, and he reports are making it sound as if he can be had for something like 3/75 or 4/90. You're talking about 31-year-old player who is going to give you a .900 OPS. That's about what we pissed away on John Lackey!

[iortiz]

Well... The problem is not spend, the problem is how you spend. This team has a need since 2011: pitching. They haven't addressed that problem yet, instead they have put their atention and bucks on managers and guys like Gomes and Victorino. We should have fixed the pitching since last year and we did not, and unless our FO has a master plan in that regard this offseason, seems like our rotation will be even thinner than last year.

 

At this point, I'm not asking for an ace; I'm just asking for a couple of guys that could eat innings, like Sanchez and Jackson combined with a solid BP which could give us the opportunity to compete next year. Sure, you probably will overpay them, but that is the price you have to pay for waiting and pass on several pitchers. There's no a perfect deal. As I've been saying, sign Sanchez and Jackson and go with the current offense and next year focus on a centerpiece bat and an ace SP (if needed)

 

Imagine.

 

Sanchez

Buch

Lester

Jackson

Lackey

Depth: Douby

 

Ells

Victorino

Peedy

Ortiz

Napoli

WM

Ciriaco

Salty

Gomes/Kalish

 

Bailey

Bard

Uehara

Morales

Aceves

Hill

Tazawa

 

Bench

Kalish

Iggy

Lav

 

The 2013 payroll would be under 160 or so... And still have flexibility for the half of the season if you need a move and toward 2014.

 

I mean, it is not the best offense in the MLB but IMO could be decent, and the rotation has not an ace but could be very solid on paper. As I said, in 2014 focus in a centerpiece bat and an ace (depending on the performance of the 2013 rotation), but you have to start with something.

[jung]

I seem to remember that was last year's strategy as well. What was left was not worth the time of day. How did that work out?

 

I would have much preferred they sign some 1 year deals with risky candidates. I am sure what will be left will be on one year deals cause at the rate they are going nobody will give whats left more than a one year deal but the money will be short as well cause they will be bottom of barrel guys.

 

I would have preferred they take more risk and sign guys that have the potential to be a much bigger impact guy if he works out than guys that are the equivalent's of this year's Cook. Heck they will likely be lucky to run into this year's Cook once they "pounce". Pay for the opportunity to pull somebody in that might truly have an impact...figure it out through the course of the season....try to sign the guy before the year maybe to something like a two year deal before the year is over. I am not sure there would be a better plan than that with pitching in such short supply in this years market but with money to burn.

 

Seems to me they are going to end up with a bunch a' guys that will be lucky to get out of the 4th inning and burn out the bullpen AGAIN.

[User Name]

But how sure are we that prices are going to go down? The list of who's left is shorter, but aren't there still a lot of teams with money to spend?

 

Haven't seen any bargain signings yet.

 

This is the problem.^

[User Name]

Not true, if a potential owner has x amount of dollars to spend on a club, and the club has $200M in contracts, rather than $100M in contracts, that's an extra $100M or so the new owner has to pay out of pocket which is a significant chunk of change.

 

Yeah that's not how it works. Just look at the Red Sox for an example of increasing a team's market value right before selling it. They shelled out a s*** ton of money for Manny and Pedro before Henry et al bought the team. The more expensive the team when you sell it, the more money you make. What you say may be true with the Padres or some other small-market team, but not the Red Sox.

[BSN07]

But how sure are we that prices are going to go down? The list of who's left is shorter, but aren't there still a lot of teams with money to spend?

 

Haven't seen any bargain signings yet.

 

There will be bargains. If these guys were getting offered anything other then bargains they be signed already.

[Bellhorn04]

There will be bargains. If these guys were getting offered anything other then bargains they be signed already.

 

OK, now help me out with this...how have we done with bargain starters in recent years?

[a700hitter]

OK, now help me out with this...how have we done with bargain starters in recent years?

They turned out to not be bargains.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm guessing our bargain starters have had a collective ERA over the last 5 years of about, oh, maybe 6.25?

[Dojji]

And you're neglecting to mention that that our record with premium signed FA's isn't much better. Between Lackey, Matsuzaka, Clement, Wells and other assorted busts, the overall results are not good when it comes to this FO and the pitchers they target.

[jung]

I would also guess that anybody that can actually pitch will be overpaid and once you get to the dregs they are really going to be dreggy this year.

 

Also the Sox issue with spending of late has been making bad choices and I think their confidence level is pretty low in the exec offices. Signing Manny's and Pedro's is not the same thing as resigning Beckett which had many people here gagging and signing CC and and Cameron and Jenks and on and on and on...even to some extent Lackey and AGons cause both were known health risks, one with an issue at the time unresolved (Lackey) and another having not swung at a single ML pitch since coming out of shoulder surgery (AGons) and the Sox in the infinite wisdom gave both of them ALL THE MONEY.

 

Make signing that going into a sales process for the team and you have not adding any value anybody will pay for. All you have added is payroll.

[Lord Snow]

OK, now help me out with this...how have we done with bargain starters in recent years?

 

That in itself is a problem. Players are usually bargains for a reason.

 

My problem with Ben Cherington is that he has gone out and signed mediocre players to mediocre contracts, they're not making $20M per year, and they're not making $3M per year, they're getting like $10-15M a year for 2-3 years. Mediocre players on mediocre contracts almost always disappoint because when a player regresses from a B/C player to a D player (e.g. JD Drew, Julio Lugo) he is no longer worth a place in your line-up. But if you're paying an A player $20M and he regresses to a B player (e.g. Mark Teixeira in New York, Adrian Gonzalez in Boston) he is still worth slotting into the starting line-up but he just isn't worth what you're paying him.

 

Signing starting pitchers is a tricky game as well. Almost all free agent pitchers have a lot of mileage on their arms and how many pitchers in baseball are dominant for 12 years? (because thats what you're talking about when you give a player with 6+ year service time a 6-7 year contract). In that sense it's almost always better to trade prospects for a young ace with low mileage on his arm.

[jung]

Radio talking heads talking about Sox pulling out of Napoli deal cause he has not created any buzz at all and they did not expect that. That probably means Napoli does not appear to be moving the ticket sales like at all.

 

Also I guess the reports are that Hamilton has not as yet been offered four years from anybody yet. Apparently he has not seen an offer over three years yet. So suggestions that the Sox are possibly trying to back out of Napoli to take a serous run at Hamilton.

[redsoxfan3]

Radio talking heads talking about Sox pulling out of Napoli deal cause he has not created any buzz at all and they did not expect that. That probably means Napoli does not appear to be moving the ticket sales like at all.

 

Also I guess the reports are that Hamilton has not as yet been offered four years from anybody yet. Apparently he has not seen an offer over three years yet. So suggestions that the Sox are possibly trying to back out of Napoli to take a serous run at Hamilton.

 

That would be a stupid reason not to sign him. Jen Royle, a friend of Mike's, was keeping quiet about the situation. She is now saying he had a flu last week and that slowed everything down. She said this has nothing to do with his medicals. I would be surprised if the deal falls through.

[Lord Snow]

Radio talking heads talking about Sox pulling out of Napoli deal cause he has not created any buzz at all and they did not expect that. That probably means Napoli does not appear to be moving the ticket sales like at all.

 

Also I guess the reports are that Hamilton has not as yet been offered four years from anybody yet. Apparently he has not seen an offer over three years yet. So suggestions that the Sox are possibly trying to back out of Napoli to take a serous run at Hamilton.

 

Another problem with signing mediocre talent, they don't sell tickets. Star players sell tickets. Hamilton would sell tickets.

 

Fans dont want to pay $80 to see if Jonny Gomes will hit a home run.

 

Thats a reason I'm glad the Sox stayed away from Greinke. He might have been the best starting pitcher on the market but he is by no means a star pitcher, or ever an elite pitcher, he's a good pitcher, that's about it. But not the type that's going to energize a fan base.

[a700hitter]

Radio talking heads talking about Sox pulling out of Napoli deal cause he has not created any buzz at all and they did not expect that. That probably means Napoli does not appear to be moving the ticket sales like at all.

 

Also I guess the reports are that Hamilton has not as yet been offered four years from anybody yet. Apparently he has not seen an offer over three years yet. So suggestions that the Sox are possibly trying to back out of Napoli to take a serous run at Hamilton.

This FO is the Gang that Couldn't Shoot Straight. They look more and more like buffoons with each passing day. If they signed Mike Napoli with the hope that he would create buzz, they are a bunch of jokers. It's a solid baseball move, but not a headline grabber.

[a700hitter]

Breaking News: The Red Sox have just announced that they have traded Mike Napoli to the Cubs for Sandy Rosario.:lol: