Should the Sox trade some Bullpen arms?

[User Name]

Yup. Look what he did with us. Look what he did with Philly. There's no sign of decline or something there. He'll be solid the rest of his contract in Philly IMO given the facts.. He is durable, reliable, and solid. He's simply the best closer in the league.

 

Yup, We should have resigned Pap, but our great FO again, didn't... Instead and as usual brought/trade a sack of overpaid busts :thumbdown

 

No we shouldn't have. It's a stupid contract for a reliever whose production can be replicated by someone cheaper. His production last year was on par with several available relievers (I.E Nathan) who went for much cheaper.

 

I understand that you have a love affair with Papelbon, but that doesn't make his contract any less stupid. Please stop banging this drum.

[User Name]

Also, stop pretending that you know Papelbon will be healthy/effective for the rest of his contract. You don't have a crystal ball so you don't know that, and it's annoying as f***.

[iortiz]

No we shouldn't have. It's a stupid contract for a reliever whose production can be replicated by someone cheaper. His production last year was on par with several available relievers (I.E Nathan) who went for much cheaper.

 

I understand that you have a love affair with Papelbon, but that doesn't make his contract any less stupid. Please stop banging this drum.

 

Stupid contract ? Jajaja stupid is our FO for let him go. He's been solid, durable and reliable for so many years. Not only one, MANY!...: reason why he got that contract. In the end, yr by yr he will make the money he made in Boston with his career numbers, regardless the cost of the money at the end of his contract. As anything in life, prime things cost and "a lot" and he is the cream of the cream...

 

We all know you are a detractor of that contract, please stop banging this drum.

[iortiz]

Also, stop pretending that you know Papelbon will be healthy/effective for the rest of his contract. You don't have a crystal ball so you don't know that, and it's annoying as f***.

 

You need to comprehend what you read. I wrote IMO given the facts.

 

Comprende?

[BSN07]

Stupid contract ? Jajaja stupid is our FO for let him go. He's been solid, durable and reliable for so many years. Not only one, MANY!...: reason why he got that contract. In the end, yr by yr he will make the money he made in Boston with his career numbers, regardless the cost of the money at the end of his contract. As anything in life, prime things cost and "a lot" and he is the cream of the cream...

 

We all know you are a detractor of that contract, please stop banging this drum.

 

Papelbon's contract is ugly. He got paid like Mo and he's not Mo.

[a700hitter]

Stupid contract ? Jajaja stupid is our FO for let him go. He's been solid, durable and reliable for so many years. Not only one, MANY!...: reason why he got that contract. In the end, yr by yr he will make the money he made in Boston with his career numbers, regardless the cost of the money at the end of his contract. As anything in life, prime things cost and "a lot" and he is the cream of the cream...

 

We all know you are a detractor of that contract, please stop banging this drum.

Papelbon was as consistent and reliable a reliever as anyone in the game not named Rivera. He's never had an arm issue after 2006. The guy is a stud closer and the Phillies paid the price for a stud. Last year, we had a psycho and a lame fill Paps spot, and as some of us predicted the end of games were like bad horror movies.

[iortiz]

Papelbon's contract is ugly. He got paid like Mo and he's not Mo.

 

I think you haven't seen and compared their numbers. Mo 2.21 career ERA. Pap? 2.34 career ERA.

 

As I said once... Pap is driving in the same highway.

[a700hitter]

I think you haven't seen and compared their numbers. Mo 2.21 career ERA. Pap? 2.34 career ERA.

 

As I said once... Pap is driving in the same highway.

He hasn't gotten to Mo money yet.

[iortiz]

Papelbon was as consistent and reliable a reliever as anyone in the game not named Rivera. He's never had an arm issue after 2006. The guy is a stud closer and the Phillies paid the price for a stud. Last year, we had a psycho and a lame fill Paps spot, and as some of us predicted the end of games were like bad horror movies.

 

It's funny how people protect busts who make tons of money and point at quality players who make the money they deserve like Pap.... regardless he is from our farm. Lamentable.

 

Hopefully Bailly or whoever fills his shoes. Doubt it.

[iortiz]

He hasn't gotten to Mo money yet.

 

I would not be surprise if at the end of his career made something similar.

[mvp 78]

It's funny how people protect busts who make tons of money...

Like who?

[a700hitter]

It's funny how people protect busts who make tons of money and point at quality players who make the money they deserve like Pap.... regardless he is from our farm. Lamentable.

 

Hopefully Bailly or whoever fills his shoes. Doubt it.

I don't think he has made as much as KRod, and he is much better than KRod.

[iortiz]

Like who?

 

Like who? plenty of people here and outside this board. Go through threads and you will realize who.

[iortiz]

I don't think he has made as much as KRod, and he is much better than KRod.

 

Plus... People do not realize that he was already proved on our environment; In the ALE...and that my friend is invaluable.

 

Anyway... Hopefully we fill his shoes somehow.

[iortiz]

I don't think he has made as much as KRod, and he is much better than KRod.

 

Light years

[Dojji]

Plus... People do not realize that he was already proved on our environment; In the ALE...and that my friend is invaluable.

 

Anyway... Hopefully we fill his shoes somehow.

 

Indeed. For this reason if no other, Papelbon should have been kept.

 

I strongly suspect that we lost Pap so we'd have the payroll flexibility to choke down Crawford and Gonzalez. Which is inexcusable. Literally. I'll carry water for the adminstration as much as anyone, and defend them if they're worth defending, but there's no excuse for that kind of judgment call.

[User Name]

And the lobbying for Papelbon continues. It's like people don't understand the volatility of relievers. None of you are stupid, and your personal fandom shouldn't cloud your judgment.

 

They didn't keep Papelbon because relievers are volatile and he wanted (and got) the richest contract for a reliever. Giving relievers big contracts has failed over and over and over again during the last decade.

 

Papelbon is not special. Stop carrying his jockstrap, for the love of Jesus.

 

/endrant.

[iortiz]

And the lobbying for Papelbon continues. It's like people don't understand the volatility of relievers. None of you are stupid, and your personal fandom shouldn't cloud your judgment.

 

They didn't keep Papelbon because relievers are volatile and he wanted (and got) the richest contract for a reliever. Giving relievers big contracts has failed over and over and over again during the last decade.

 

Papelbon is not special. Stop carrying his jockstrap, for the love of Jesus.

 

/endrant.

 

Stop? says who? You? Hahaha

 

You do not understand that he is not "another reliever". He is is not volatile. He simply is not. Yes, he is special, look at the numbers. If you can not realize that, sorry but then you do not know how to identify a diamond between carbon.

[mvp 78]

Like who? plenty of people here and outside this board. Go through threads and you will realize who.

 

No, which players were overpaid busts that people coddled?

[Lord Snow]

Papelbon was different from most relievers.

 

He was babied by the Red Sox organization. He seldom, if ever, was leaned on during his tenure in Boston.

 

For 4-years $50M he should have been kept in Boston. I never understood letting him walk. Yes, he was expensive. But at the same time I remember the revolving door at the back of the bullpen before Papelbon came along and was an anchor for 6 years.

[jung]

Well closers do have a tendency to change rapidly because they are at the violent end of the pitching business. I sort of think that is what folks are talking about when they talk about the volatility of closers.

 

Some of them, especially those reliant on heat throw extremely hard every pitch. They don't show signs of deterioration. Today they are fine...tomorrow they are headed for surgery or a hospital bed or therapy or something. It happens quickly and unexpectedly generally cause there are no tell tale signs like what we look for or see in a starter. Sometimes you can see it coming with a closer but more often he is OK all the way up until he is not OK.

 

Paps certainly relies on heat and if anything ever does happen to him I expect it will happen quickly and unexpectedly.

[jung]

Paps went through a couple of periods here where the Sox forced him to go over a single inning in relief as a closer. Those are certainly tough stints for a closer. He did not do well in those instances but hard for me to say they coddled him when they were willing to force him into 4, 5 and 6 out stints on occasion.

[User Name]

Paps went through a couple of periods here where the Sox forced him to go over a single inning in relief as a closer. Those are certainly tough stints for a closer. He did not do well in those instances but hard for me to say they coddled him when they were willing to force him into 4, 5 and 6 out stints on occasion.

 

This. For the love of God, this.

 

Why can't people stop spouting this nonsense about Papelbon being "different" than other relievers. The only guy that fits that description is Mariano, and look at what happened to him last year.

[Bellhorn04]

I think Papelbon's numbers do tend to support the tags of consistency and reliability. He's had 7 straight years with 30+ saves. 2010 was the only season he had an ERA over 2.94 and a WHIP over 1.15. How many other closers have this kind of 7 year run going?

[iortiz]

I think Papelbon's numbers do tend to support the tags of consistency and reliability. He's had 7 straight years with 30+ saves. 2010 was the only season he had an ERA over 2.94 and a WHIP over 1.15. How many other closers have this kind of 7 year run going?

 

This. For the love of God, this. :lol::lol:

[mvp 78]

I think Papelbon's numbers do tend to support the tags of consistency and reliability. He's had 7 straight years with 30+ saves. 2010 was the only season he had an ERA over 2.94 and a WHIP over 1.15. How many other closers have this kind of 7 year run going?

 

Saves are the sign of being on a winning team. It's a fairly useless stat.

[iortiz]

Saves are the sign of being on a winning team. It's a fairly useless stat.

 

ERA?

[User Name]

I think Papelbon's numbers do tend to support the tags of consistency and reliability. He's had 7 straight years with 30+ saves. 2010 was the only season he had an ERA over 2.94 and a WHIP over 1.15. How many other closers have this kind of 7 year run going?

 

Actually, quite a bit. Mainly because saves are useless for this argument. As MVP said, they're just a sign from being on a good team. Also, Papelbon got massively babied by the Red Sox from 2007 on. How many 1.1 + IP appearances did he have?

 

Actually, let's wait until iortiz' boner for Papelbon goes down just a bit and see if he can answer the question without a misused phrase or making actual sense.

 

I'll wait.

[a700hitter]

Saves are the sign of being on a winning team. It's a fairly useless stat.

Saves are not his only consistent number. Plus, he got 38 save for an 81-81 third place team from a terrible division in 2012.

[iortiz]

Actually, quite a bit. Mainly because saves are useless for this argument. As MVP said, they're just a sign from being on a good team. Also, Papelbon got massively babied by the Red Sox from 2007 on. How many 1.1 + IP appearances did he have?

 

Actually, let's wait until iortiz' boner for Papelbon goes down just a bit and see if he can answer the question without a misused phrase or making actual sense.

 

I'll wait.

 

He's stud. Ask Philly. Obviously you have Boston FO's vision which is fail in that regard.

 

And I disagree about SVs. They are paid for that stat. Closers are paid to have high %SV. They are paid to shutdown games. SV is precisely the stat that show you that ability.