Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[BSN07]

I wouldn't mind the Red Sox taking Asdrubel's contract off of the tribe

Raunado and Doubront

 

He's intriguing. One the one hand he's a good SS that hits. But he's only signed for 2 more years. And will probably be looking for at least 15M+ AAV for 5+ years. At that point he's 30 and that deal would worry me a little. He makes sense if the team is making a push this year or next. He doesn't if they are in rebuild mode IMO. Unless he's considered a stop gap for Bogaerts?

 

 

If however a trade were to happen, I think Iglesias is part of the deal. Team isn't going to let him rot in AAA making 2.5M a year. Iggy+P prospect(maybe another low level throw in) for Asdrubel and his contract(16M total for 2 seasons) seems like a solid offer IMO. They guy isn't Tulo, it's not gonna take a handful of top guys to get him.

 

There's no telling what some GM will actually offer. Clevelands asking price is front line pitching, an well I don't see anyone giving up their best pitching prospects for this guy. Some I guessing they settle for something less.

 

BTW does Cleveland have SS prospect? I admit I have no idea so my Iggy thought might be moot.

[Spitball]

He's intriguing. One the one hand he's a good SS that hits. But he's only signed for 2 more years. And will probably be looking for at least 15M+ AAV for 5+ years. At that point he's 30 and that deal would worry me a little. He makes sense if the team is making a push this year or next. He doesn't if they are in rebuild mode IMO. Unless he's considered a stop gap for Bogaerts?

 

 

If however a trade were to happen, I think Iglesias is part of the deal. Team isn't going to let him rot in AAA making 2.5M a year. Iggy+P prospect(maybe another low level throw in) for Asdrubel and his contract(16M total for 2 seasons) seems like a solid offer IMO. They guy isn't Tulo, it's not gonna take a handful of top guys to get him.

 

There's no telling what some GM will actually offer. Clevelands asking price is front line pitching, an well I don't see anyone giving up their best pitching prospects for this guy. Some I guessing they settle for something less.

 

BTW does Cleveland have SS prospect? I admit I have no idea so my Iggy thought might be moot.

 

I doubt the Guardians will be looking at a question mark like Iglesias. They will surely demand Bogaerts...and I hope the Sox decline.

[BSN07]

I doubt the Guardians will be looking at a question mark like Iglesias. They will surely demand Bogaerts...and I hope the Sox decline.

 

Well of course they will shoot for the moon and ask for Bogaerts, and they will get shot down. Which they should. That we certainly agree on.

 

But don't discount Iggy's value. Elite defensive cost controlled SS could have a lot of value on a young rebuilding team. Especially if the don't have an in house option to replace Cabrera.

[jacksonianmarch]

Cabrera is an intriguing guy. From a metrics standpoint, he's a worsening defender, and just from the eye test, he's put on some LBs. But that extra weight has come in the form of muscle (mostly) and has seen his power emerge. I would be a bit wary going out and getting him knowing that he is a guy you dont re-sign after these 2 yrs since he will likely end up at 3b

[MANNYHOF24]

What kind of package do you think it would take to get Choo, Masterson and Cabrera?

[jacksonianmarch]

It would take a near complete wiping of your farm system. Seeing as they dont do discounts for dealing for multiple players, let's see the prices you'd be looking at for each...

 

Choo would probably be the cheapest because he's got 1 yr left on his deal. But he is also the most explosive offensively. He was a .300/.400/.500 player from 08-10. His 2011 season is pretty much a mulligan and he bounced back well in 2012 with a very high OBP. He's likely to require at least 3 prospects, one of which would be considered a right now kind of guy (Brentz) and 2 more guys with down the line potential (Cecchini and Jacobs).

 

Asdrubal Cabrera has his flaws, but he is still one of the most valuable SS's in the AL and he's signed reasonably for 2 yrs. He will likely require one of the B's, preferably Bogaerts on their end to replace their big offensive producer in the middle of the diamond. You'd probably be looking at Bogaerts and a guy like Workman to make this happen.

 

Masterson is a guy they have zero reason to deal. He's a kid who has put together back to back 200IP seasons and had an ace level season in 2011. The funny thing is, his peripherals in the first half of 2012 were better than his season in 2011, then he fell off the wagon. Seeing as he is under control for 2 more yrs and just a year ago he was coming off an ace season, they would need to be paid at ace level to deal him. I am not saying he is an ace, just that in order for them to deal before they see what they have in 2013, they'd need an ace haul. You'd need to see Barnes, Owens, and Swihart for him, a deal the sox shouldnt and wouldnt do. Should Masterson pitch to his 2012 season, he'd be worth a ton less after 2013.

 

So, to get those three, you are looking at Barnes, Bogaerts, Brentz, Ceccini, Workman, Jacobs, Owens, and Swihart

[MANNYHOF24]

CF-Ellsbury

2B-Pedroia

DH-Ortiz

1B-Nappoli/Youk/Swisher

3B-Middlebrooks

SS-Cabrera

RF-Choo

LF-Ross

C- Ross/Lavs

 

Trade Salty and a few C B prospects for Brandon McCarthy or Gavin Floyd. Trade Doubront, Igelsias, Ranaudo and other lower level prospects for Choo, Masterson and Cabrera. Sign Nappoli, Youk or Swisher to play firstbase and convicnce Ross to come back because he will suck outside of Fenway.

 

This leaves a rotation of

 

Lester

Buchholz

Floyd/McCarthy

Masterson

Lackey

 

Still no real number one (unless Lester regains his 08-10 form, or buchholz finally develops some consistency), but a vast improvement over what we saw last year. Do you think it's possible?

[MANNYHOF24]

It would take a near complete wiping of your farm system. Seeing as they dont do discounts for dealing for multiple players, let's see the prices you'd be looking at for each...

 

Choo would probably be the cheapest because he's got 1 yr left on his deal. But he is also the most explosive offensively. He was a .300/.400/.500 player from 08-10. His 2011 season is pretty much a mulligan and he bounced back well in 2012 with a very high OBP. He's likely to require at least 3 prospects, one of which would be considered a right now kind of guy (Brentz) and 2 more guys with down the line potential (Cecchini and Jacobs).

 

Asdrubal Cabrera has his flaws, but he is still one of the most valuable SS's in the AL and he's signed reasonably for 2 yrs. He will likely require one of the B's, preferably Bogaerts on their end to replace their big offensive producer in the middle of the diamond. You'd probably be looking at Bogaerts and a guy like Workman to make this happen.

 

Masterson is a guy they have zero reason to deal. He's a kid who has put together back to back 200IP seasons and had an ace level season in 2011. The funny thing is, his peripherals in the first half of 2012 were better than his season in 2011, then he fell off the wagon. Seeing as he is under control for 2 more yrs and just a year ago he was coming off an ace season, they would need to be paid at ace level to deal him. I am not saying he is an ace, just that in order for them to deal before they see what they have in 2013, they'd need an ace haul. You'd need to see Barnes, Owens, and Swihart for him, a deal the sox shouldnt and wouldnt do. Should Masterson pitch to his 2012 season, he'd be worth a ton less after 2013.

 

So, to get those three, you are looking at Barnes, Bogaerts, Brentz, Ceccini, Workman, Jacobs, Owens, and Swihart

 

You will laugh when you see my trade proposal. A depressed sox fan can dream can't he?

[jacksonianmarch]

That deal to the Guardians is laughable. McCarthy is a FA and Floyd would take a fair amount to get.

[jacksonianmarch]

You will laugh when you see my trade proposal. A depressed sox fan can dream can't he?

 

lol

[MANNYHOF24]

That deal to the Guardians is laughable. McCarthy is a FA and Floyd would take a fair amount to get.

 

I feel like salty has weird value to some teams because of the 25 bombs, he might actually be able to get a fairly good return. Any sox fan could tell you that he isn't worth much, but I have a hunch some GM will make a stupid trade. I thought for some reason McCarthy had another year left on his deal.

[jacksonianmarch]

The book is out on Salty. He is not a catcher and he cannot work a walk. Guys with power only as their tool and no real position have no real value. Also, the White Sox have Tyler Flowers who will be their starting catcher

[Spitball]

But don't discount Iggy's value. Elite defensive cost controlled SS could have a lot of value on a young rebuilding team. Especially if the don't have an in house option to replace Cabrera.

 

Actually, Cleveland's top prospects, Francisco Lindor and Dorssys Paulino, are both shortstops. They will not want Iglesias. Until he proves he can hit, I'm afraid he has little trade value.

[jacksonianmarch]

Actually, Cleveland's top prospects, Francisco Lindor and Dorssys Paulino, are both shortstops. They will not want Iglesias. Until he proves he can hit, I'm afraid he has little trade value.

 

That's really the rub here. No team gets hoodwinked these days since they all have advanced scouts who watch these kids hundreds of times. Iglesias cannot hit, and has proven he cannot hit on multiple levels. Until he proves he can hit good pitching, he will be considered a UTIL guy forever

[a700hitter]

Iglesisas has little trade value except as a component in a package with bigger talent.

[SoxSport]

Reading Abraham's interview with Cherington tonite in the Globe, I must say I don't have a clue what the Red Sox are going to--except hire a 2nd batting coach. There doesn't seem to be sense of urgency in this guy to get something done. It's a bit like last year when he said they didn't have to do much--and they would surely make the playoffs. He says it's still early. Tell it to that Toronto guy who is eating his lunch and making that hole deeper for the Red Sox to climb out of.

[SoxSport]

But don't discount Iggy's value. Elite defensive cost controlled SS could have a lot of value on a young rebuilding team. Especially if the don't have an in house option to replace Cabrera.

 

I don't think the Red Sox are discounting his value. They're paying him $2.5 million this year. You can bet he will get plenty of opportunity to show he can play.

[Dojji]

They don't care about filling the stadium. That's the whole point. Your looking at the Marlins like they are an ordinary logically thinking team. They are anything but.

 

And no the don't want to trade him. Who in their right mind would want to trade him? I'm talking about a scenario in which he doesn't want to be there, an the Marlins cash in on him and dump another 12M in payroll in the process. Is it likely? Of course not? Is it something to consider and pass the time with? Why not?

 

Not even the Marlins are that cheap.

 

This is so far beyond infeasible that it's the closest thing I've ever seen to a player acquisition that is actually impossible. Not prohibitive, not too expensive to be worth trading for, not just a mismatch between what we have and what they want. An actual player situation in which nothing we could do or say could ever concievably land this player on our team at all, under even the remotest most cuckooland scenario you can dream up.

 

If they really want to shed salary, they have talent they can bundle to intice a bite that's worth waaaaaaay less than Giancarlo Stanton. Yes, he is up for arb, and yes, this is the Marlins, and no, even with those facts both together, it's STILL absurd to even contemplate ANY scenario in which Giancarlo Stanton is in a Red Sox uniform next year.

 

See you again in two or three years on this one. It would take Stanton at least that long to shoot his way out of Florida.

[rjortiz]

I wouldn't mind the Red Sox taking Asdrubel's contract off of the tribe

Raunado and Doubront

 

Come the f*** on.

 

These trade ideas are getting ridiculous.

[Palodios]

How about Nakajima at short? He's probably going to be much cheaper than Stephen Drew, and supposedly is a pretty solid shortstop.

[jacksonianmarch]

I wanted the Yankees to sign him last yr. Above average glove, average stick, minus patience, below average power. Sounds like a guy who could stick at the position. Won't be flashy, but could fill the hole

[example1]

Nakajima would be interesting, as would the closer that many teams are looking at right now. Sadly the Sox don't seem to be in on either of them. Not sure why they wouldn't be interested in Japan's best closer... Perhaps they are operating under the misconception tht the sox fans like watching games blown late. Or maybe he's just expensive or not that good.

[jacksonianmarch]

Nakajima would be interesting, as would the closer that many teams are looking at right now. Sadly the Sox don't seem to be in on either of them. Not sure why they wouldn't be interested in Japan's best closer... Perhaps they are operating under the misconception tht the sox fans like watching games blown late. Or maybe he's just expensive or not that good.

 

Very good to great Japanese league relievers do seem to have a history of success. Okajima, Sasaki, Saito, Uehara, etc. Not sure why he'd be drawing this much interest and have such a long and sustained successful career and just not be that good.

[Dojji]

I could stand to see them make a move for Nakajima. It would be a good risk considering how badly we need a competent shortstop -- and thus just how low the standard would be right now for Nakajima's signing to be considered a success..

[BSN07]

The closer is interesting. I wouldn't hand him the job tho. I'd let Bailey, Bard and him duke it out.

 

I don't see Nakajima being a better option the Iglesias. Iggy is an elite defender, something Nakajima has not been touted as. Both are a ? offesnively at the ML level. Nakajima might end up making more money. It doesn't make sense IMO.

 

And yes I know I have thrown out some duzzies out of utter boredom recently, but this is an actual level headed opinion and not just talking to talk

[BSN07]

Forgive me if this has been discussed earlier and I missed it. What are thoughts on Liriano on a one year deal? He walked too many guys last season but still struck out more then a batter an inning. If they can get his control under... umm control then he could be a solid addition. Any other teams in the majors with 3+ LHP in their rotations?

[jacksonianmarch]

Liriano is an option only if the sox are sure they arent contending. They are already full of enough underachieving players, and bringing an underachieving lefty into Fenway could be death for him. He's a prime candidate for a 1 yr pillow contract

[User Name]

Not even the Marlins are that cheap.

 

This is so far beyond infeasible that it's the closest thing I've ever seen to a player acquisition that is actually impossible. Not prohibitive, not too expensive to be worth trading for, not just a mismatch between what we have and what they want. An actual player situation in which nothing we could do or say could ever concievably land this player on our team at all, under even the remotest most cuckooland scenario you can dream up.

 

If they really want to shed salary, they have talent they can bundle to intice a bite that's worth waaaaaaay less than Giancarlo Stanton. Yes, he is up for arb, and yes, this is the Marlins, and no, even with those facts both together, it's STILL absurd to even contemplate ANY scenario in which Giancarlo Stanton is in a Red Sox uniform next year.

 

See you again in two or three years on this one. It would take Stanton at least that long to shoot his way out of Florida.

 

Considering your sig, this post is highly ironic. Stanton's price should be massive, but he's not unmovable....no one is.

[jacksonianmarch]

Agreed UN?. But the price would be so devastating that nobody would be willing to pay it. They can get a massive haul for him in 2 yrs. So they would need an even more massive haul now. We're talking the 3 B's as a starting point. Why not? They have nothing to lose and by keeping him, they at least have an identity to their team

[User Name]

Agreed UN?. But the price would be so devastating that nobody would be willing to pay it. They can get a massive haul for him in 2 yrs. So they would need an even more massive haul now. We're talking the 3 B's as a starting point. Why not? They have nothing to lose and by keeping him, they at least have an identity to their team

 

In the end, he's not even a primary need for the Red Sox. Pitching is the name of the game.