Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Behindenemylines]

What do people here think of this contract?

 

If Breslow continues to pitch like he has the past few seasons then he will be worth the contract. Good lefties out of the pen are hard to come by and are important for a team's bullpen success.

[seabeachfred]

Why are you even mentioning Bautista when talking about Nava? Also, Bautista had a near .900 OPS and hit 27 bombs in 92 games. Not even in the same universe.

 

He's mentioning Batista because he had his production hampered by a bad wrist just as Nava was. That was Sox Sport's point....a bad wrist can impede a player's production. He never compared the two talent wise, so I can't see where you come off getting on his case. It seems you're always telling the truth and o thers are lying. Dojii called it right---get your damn facts straight and stop attacking posters you disagree with, and I'm still waiting to see you finally finding something to disagree with the front office about, but I can't hold my breath forever.

[Spitball]

He's mentioning Batista because he had his production hampered by a bad wrist just as Nava was. That was Sox Sport's point....a bad wrist can impede a player's production. He never compared the two talent wise, so I can't see where you come off getting on his case. It seems you're always telling the truth and o thers are lying. Dojii called it right---get your damn facts straight and stop attacking posters you disagree with, and I'm still waiting to see you finally finding something to disagree with the front office about, but I can't hold my breath forever.

 

Didn't Nava merely have a cyst removed from his wrist? I know it was painful but don't think that would hamper his production as much as an injury. He was placed on the DL but did finish the season before surgery was performed.

[seabeachfred]

Didn't Nava merely have a cyst removed from his wrist? I know it was painful but don't think that would hamper his production as much as an injury. He was placed on the DL but did finish the season before surgery was performed.

 

Could be Spitball but truth be told I don't know for sure. I assumed Sox Sport was either trying to make a point of some comparison or knew it was a wrist. All I do know is two things. One, Nava usually fades like an old pair of genes after a month or two of playing over his head---and two, I pretty much threw in the towel last August. It got too painful for me to even watch the Red Sox on my computer screen via the MLB package.

 

Either way, if we really have to depend on Nava or recent reject and resigned Sweeney to platoon in left field with Gomes we are in a pretty sad state out there. This is the position Williams, Yaz, Rice and Manny played. And now we have these two?????? Pathetic!!!!!!

[Spitball]

Either way, if we really have to depend on Nava or recent reject and resigned Sweeney to platoon in left field with Gomes we are in a pretty sad state out there. This is the position Williams, Yaz, Rice and Manny played. And now we have these two?????? Pathetic!!!!!!

 

I won't argue this. Gomes at $10 million over two years is a real head scratcher. He has been with three teams over two years and has never commanded as much as $2 million a year. The Red Sox have had a history of great left fielders.

[User Name]

He's mentioning Batista because he had his production hampered by a bad wrist just as Nava was. That was Sox Sport's point....a bad wrist can impede a player's production. He never compared the two talent wise, so I can't see where you come off getting on his case. It seems you're always telling the truth and o thers are lying. Dojii called it right---get your damn facts straight and stop attacking posters you disagree with, and I'm still waiting to see you finally finding something to disagree with the front office about, but I can't hold my breath forever.

 

Fred....can you read at all? Did you read the post? Did you read the part about Bautista's numbers barely dropping off when he could play? It's no comparison because of the talent levels. Bautista kept producing, Nava kept sucking. Simple as that. Also, how is it an attack on anyone? It's an attack on the ridiculous nature of the post. Nava didn't suck because of the injury, he sucked because he's not a full-time player.

 

For a guy who claims he was a teacher, you sure can't read at all.

 

Also, about me disagreeing with the FO, again, you apparently can't read. Not only was i against the Dempster signing, but i publicly complained about them not signing Marcum. I have said again and again they need another pitcher.

 

Stop being an idiot.

[SoxSport]

I think they ought to trade for Stanton. For whatever it takes.

 

This kid has MVP written all over him. He's another Rice. He'll hit a ton in Fenway. Put him in LF and throw the keys away for 10 years. He fills the middle of the lineup like Hamilton would have. Younger and cheaper.

 

Lucchino needs to kick Cherington in the ass and say no Stanton, no GM job next year. Make the Marlins an offer they can't refuse.

[Station 13]

I won't argue this. Gomes at $10 million over two years is a real head scratcher. He has been with three teams over two years and has never commanded as much as $2 million a year. The Red Sox have had a history of great left fielders.

 

Gomes OPSed around .950 vs LHP, in a division with a lot of LHP. What LF will fill the vacant LF on the team over Gomes? Daniel Nava? Who hits a buck eighty after July?

[User Name]

So if Florida decides they won't trade Stanton, Cherington should be blamed if he can't trade for him? What if another team offers a better package than the Sox can assemble? That's retarded.

[a700hitter]

Seriously, Cherries is heading towards a huge crash and burn if he is planning on Nava and Sweeney playing significant roles with the team and starting the season with the team. These are really barely borderline major leaguers. They are emergency type players who you put on a bus once or twice a year to come to Fenway to fill in. They are not platoon players or role players. They suck and having them on the opening day roster will portend of a really s***** year at Fenway.

[Palodios]

I think they ought to trade for Stanton. For whatever it takes.

 

This kid has MVP written all over him. He's another Rice. He'll hit a ton in Fenway. Put him in LF and throw the keys away for 10 years. He fills the middle of the lineup like Hamilton would have. Younger and cheaper.

 

Lucchino needs to kick Cherington in the ass and say no Stanton, no GM job next year. Make the Marlins an offer they can't refuse.

 

Stanton isn't worth the Red Sox's top 5 or 6 prospects. If Stanton gets hurt, it would take 5-10 years to recover from that kind of move.

[a700hitter]

Stanton isn't worth the Red Sox's top 5 or 6 prospects. If Stanton gets hurt, it would take 5-10 years to recover from that kind of move.

Recover? We suck now. At least Stanton would give us a wrecking ball to go into the middle of the lineup and provide a tone of excitement and a lot of offense and some wins. I don't understand the prediction of injury by him. The prospects can get injured too and never provide a thing at the ML level. Our #1 rated prospect, Westmoreland had career ending brain surgery. It happens to the prospects too.

[User Name]

That's not a very reasonable stance. I understand you don't value prospects highly and all, but that just doesn't make any sense.

[a700hitter]

Stanton isn't worth the Red Sox's top 5 or 6 prospects. If Stanton gets hurt, it would take 5-10 years to recover from that kind of move.

Also, I don't think you would have to give up 6 prospects to get him. I can't recall a trade where 6 prospects were traded for 1 player. I do think it would be very reasonable to let them pick whatever 2 or 3 they want without restriction.

[Behindenemylines]

Stanton now has come out and said he wants to play on the left coast in the future. Sounds like he doesn't want anything to do with Boston and New York and is a warm weather guy.

[dupree]

I dont see anyone trading for Stanton until the All Star Break. The Marlins are done in disarray since the trade with the Blue Jays. Tax payers in miami are pissed at the fire sale. And if the current face of the franchise left via trade right now they would just need to lock the doors on the stadium because no one would fill the seats.

 

By mid season Stanton will be voicing his opinion about the FO and that he wants to be traded. The FO will use that as a way to get him outta there with bringing back top prospects while putting the blame on Stanton for the move. At that point every team in the league will prolly make offers to miami for him.

[example1]

Also, I don't think you would have to give up 6 prospects to get him. I can't recall a trade where 6 prospects were traded for 1 player. I do think it would be very reasonable to let them pick whatever 2 or 3 they want without restriction.

 

Generally I agree with you here about the top 2-3. Depending on when the Marlins actually decide to move Stanton I would really advise the Sox waiting to make that move. He will be more tradeable as he approaches FA and at that time hopefully the Sox will have their current group of prospects actually contributing to the team and will be on to the next wave, which will not cripple them in terms of long-term development.

 

I think losing guys like Bogaerts and Barnes right now would hurt their ability to build a winner in the future.

 

That said, this would be the kind of move that would both make a splash in the mind of fans AND not be inherently crippling like signing an enormously overpriced FA would be.

[Palodios]

Recover? We suck now. At least Stanton would give us a wrecking ball to go into the middle of the lineup and provide a tone of excitement and a lot of offense and some wins. I don't understand the prediction of injury by him. The prospects can get injured too and never provide a thing at the ML level. Our #1 rated prospect, Westmoreland had career ending brain surgery. It happens to the prospects too.

 

And you would rather suck for the next decade too? When you're looking at a trade that would cost that many prospects, you need to play the odds. Remember when the Red Sox told the Mariners to take any 6 players in the organization for King Felix? We'd be looking at the same exact situation with Stanton, and it would cost this team a significant amount of talent to fill one hole.

 

My major concern is trading away a pile of pitching prospects, picking up Stanton, having a lineup that mashes... but a rotation that gets mashed too.

[mvp 78]

Some people only want instant gratification.

[a700hitter]

And you would rather suck for the next decade too? When you're looking at a trade that would cost that many prospects, you need to play the odds. Remember when the Red Sox told the Mariners to take any 6 players in the organization for King Felix? We'd be looking at the same exact situation with Stanton, and it would cost this team a significant amount of talent to fill one hole.

 

My major concern is trading away a pile of pitching prospects, picking up Stanton, having a lineup that mashes... but a rotation that gets mashed too.

No one is going to give up their top 6 prospects. That is why Felix is still in Seattle. It wasn't a serious offer. If anyone would bite, Seattle knew that it would be a huge overpay. They are looking to sign him to a $100 million extension. I can't think of any player who netted the top 6 prospects from a team.

 

If we plugged Stanton into a lineup with Ortiz, Middlebrooks and Pedroia. That would be some formidable scary ass lineup. I think we could bludgeon ourselves to respectability for 2-3 years at least despite the substandard starting pitching. That would give us some time to restock the farm.

[a700hitter]

Generally I agree with you here about the top 2-3. Depending on when the Marlins actually decide to move Stanton I would really advise the Sox waiting to make that move. He will be more tradeable as he approaches FA and at that time hopefully the Sox will have their current group of prospects actually contributing to the team and will be on to the next wave, which will not cripple them in terms of long-term development.

 

I think losing guys like Bogaerts and Barnes right now would hurt their ability to build a winner in the future.

 

That said, this would be the kind of move that would both make a splash in the mind of fans AND not be inherently crippling like signing an enormously overpriced FA would be.

I am not sold on the studliness of Barnes. I am waiting until he shows some dominance at AA. The Sox have been suck ass at drafting and developing starting pitching. I will remain skeptical until I see some results.

[a700hitter]

Some people only want instant gratification.

I have given up hope of you leaving voluntarily.

[Palodios]

No one is going to give up their top 6 prospects. That is why Felix is still in Seattle. It wasn't a serious offer. If anyone would bite, Seattle knew that it would be a huge overpay. They are looking to sign him to a $100 million extension. I can't think of any player who netted the top 6 prospects from a team.

 

If we plugged Stanton into a lineup with Ortiz, Middlebrooks and Pedroia. That would be some formidable scary ass lineup. I think we could bludgeon ourselves to respectability for 2-3 years at least despite the substandard starting pitching. That would give us some time to restock the farm.

 

The reason why no one has pried away Felix is the same reason no one has pried away Stanton-- The value of the player is probably worth 5-6 prospects, but no one is willing to give it up.

 

Put it into perspective-- the Blue Jays were willing to give up a top 10 prospect and a top 50 prospect for a 38 year old knuckleballer with one year of control. One year of control of Adrian Gonzalez cost three top 100 prospects.

 

How much do you think teams would be willing to give for a 23 year old masher with 4 affordable years of control left? I think 6 may be pushing it, but 5 is definitely a reasonable expectation.

[a700hitter]

The reason why no one has pried away Felix is the same reason no one has pried away Stanton-- The value of the player is probably worth 5-6 prospects, but no one is willing to give it up.

 

Put it into perspective-- the Blue Jays were willing to give up a top 10 prospect and a top 50 prospect for a 38 year old knuckleballer with one year of control. One year of control of Adrian Gonzalez cost three top 100 prospects.

 

How much do you think teams would be willing to give for a 23 year old masher with 4 affordable years of control left? I think 6 may be pushing it, but 5 is definitely a reasonable expectation.

I can't blame the Marlins for setting that as their price. I wouldn't want to part with the guy either unless I got overwhelmed. That being said, I'd offer them to pick any 3 they want and then I'd present them with a group of prospects (lower level) and tell them to pick 1 maybe 2 from that group. I agree that Stanton is a pipe dream, but he's worth pursuing. I'd hate to see another team get him if he is truly on the block.

[Dojji]

There's no harm in knocking. I just have so little expectation that the door will actually open that my attentions as a fan are directed elsewhere.

[seabeachfred]

Fred....can you read at all? Did you read the post? Did you read the part about Bautista's numbers barely dropping off when he could play? It's no comparison because of the talent levels. Bautista kept producing, Nava kept sucking. Simple as that. Also, how is it an attack on anyone? It's an attack on the ridiculous nature of the post. Nava didn't suck because of the injury, he sucked because he's not a full-time player.

 

For a guy who claims he was a teacher, you sure can't read at all.

 

Also, about me disagreeing with the FO, again, you apparently can't read. Not only was i against the Dempster signing, but i publicly complained about them not signing Marcum. I have said again and again they need another pitcher.

 

Stop being an idiot.

 

I think you have trouble reading intuitively. Sox Sport got it, Dojii got it, I got it. You didn't. You're the idiot. Again, there is no comparison in the talent level between the two in question. That was never the consideration; it was that a wrist injury can impair performance no matter how good you are or how mediocre you are. Stop being a moron.

[seabeachfred]

I think they ought to trade for Stanton. For whatever it takes.

 

This kid has MVP written all over him. He's another Rice. He'll hit a ton in Fenway. Put him in LF and throw the keys away for 10 years. He fills the middle of the lineup like Hamilton would have. Younger and cheaper.

 

Lucchino needs to kick Cherington in the ass and say no Stanton, no GM job next year. Make the Marlins an offer they can't refuse.

 

No argument there Sox Sport. Stanton is all that and more. However, are you willing to trade two or three top prospects like Boegarts, Bradley and Barnes for him? I assure you it will cost us a mint to get him. Yes, we will get a budding superstar but it will be expensive. Then there is the problem that if he is put on the block some other team might match and raise us a better offer. I would see if the guy was available and what the Marlins would want for him. They're not going anywhere for the next few years and I hear their farm system is pretty dried up. It could be a match if he becomes available, but just understand, he will not come cheaply.

[seabeachfred]

Gomes OPSed around .950 vs LHP, in a division with a lot of LHP. What LF will fill the vacant LF on the team over Gomes? Daniel Nava? Who hits a buck eighty after July?

 

Station 13, you hit the nail on the head. We are all aware that Gomes eats lefthanders alive. We also know he can't field worth s*** and can't righties all that well either so we need a lefty outfielder to platoon with him. I can tell everyone but the rumpswabs that Nava is not that guy and no one should be naive enough to believe the front office when they peddle that kind of tripe. It would be the same story---a month or so hot streak and then the guy would suck wind for the rest of the season. He is a journeyman and nothing more. We need to make a trade for Garrett Jones if we can.

[User Name]

I think you have trouble reading intuitively. Sox Sport got it, Dojii got it, I got it. You didn't. You're the idiot. Again, there is no comparison in the talent level between the two in question. That was never the consideration; it was that a wrist injury can impair performance no matter how good you are or how mediocre you are. Stop being a moron.

 

Fred, i sincerely apologize. I obviously made a request you simply can't fulfill. You can't stop being an idiot, so please continue at your leisure.

[Laser Show]

However, are you willing to trade two or three top prospects like Boegarts, Bradley and Barnes for him?

 

I'd be willing to throw all 3 of them, plus another 1-2 mid level prospects, and probably more. Stanton is incredibly young (23) and has proven he can mash. Miguel Cabrera was traded to Detroit (with Dontrelle Willis) for 6 prospects, Dallas Trahern, Burke Badenhop, Eulogio De La Cruz, Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and Mike Rabelo. Stanton is even better at this point than Cabrera was, and Cabrera was traded with a few less years of team control remaining.