Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

The problem is that Stanton can't pitch. I'd trade Bogaerts and Bradley but hold onto the high-tier pitching prospects.

[seabeachfred]

I can't blame the Marlins for setting that as their price. I wouldn't want to part with the guy either unless I got overwhelmed. That being said, I'd offer them to pick any 3 they want and then I'd present them with a group of prospects (lower level) and tell them to pick 1 maybe 2 from that group. I agree that Stanton is a pipe dream, but he's worth pursuing. I'd hate to see another team get him if he is truly on the block.

 

Stanton is a unique talent and worth a stiff price. Your take of picking any three from the top shelf and one or two from the middle rows seems fine to me except for one possible snag. I just hope we are not too anxious to deal the pitching prospects. True, we have been s***** in developing good pitching in the minors but I keep hearing we have three or four potential studs Ted and I would like to be able to keep two or three of them. Again, we would not be having this part of the conversation if those assbites Lester and Buchholz were pitching up to their capabilities.

[seabeachfred]

I'd be willing to throw all 3 of them, plus another 1-2 mid level prospects, and probably more. Stanton is incredibly young (23) and has proven he can mash. Miguel Cabrera was traded to Detroit (with Dontrelle Willis) for 6 prospects, Dallas Trahern, Burke Badenhop, Eulogio De La Cruz, Cameron Maybin, Andrew Miller and Mike Rabelo. Stanton is even better at this point than Cabrera was, and Cabrera was traded with a few less years of team control remaining.

 

Again Laser, just as I said to 700 Hitter, go for it!!!!! I'm just a little hesitant not to include more than one pitching prospect of the three or four good ones that they tell us we have. If you notice, those six traded for Cabrera? None of them have been worth s*** up to this time. Miller is now with us and is still a stiff in my book with his lack of decent mechanics and Maybin has been a bust so far in San Diego. The rest of the that group could be lumped into WHO ARE THESE GUYS??????? Yes, you're right--Stanton is worth it.

[Palodios]

Again Laser, just as I said to 700 Hitter, go for it!!!!! I'm just a little hesitant not to include more than one pitching prospect of the three or four good ones that they tell us we have. If you notice, those six traded for Cabrera? None of them have been worth s*** up to this time. Miller is now with us and is still a stiff in my book with his lack of decent mechanics and Maybin has been a bust so far in San Diego. The rest of the that group could be lumped into WHO ARE THESE GUYS??????? Yes, you're right--Stanton is worth it.

 

 

The Tigers were incredibly lucky with the players they traded... most of them didn't get anywhere. But trading away two top 20 prospects is very dangerous. Look at the list from 2007. Do you really have faith in this Red Sox organization to know which players to trade away, and which players to keep? Right now, I don't.

 

1. Daisuke Matsuzaka, rhp, Red Sox

2. Alex Gordon, 3b, Royals

3. Delmon Young, of, Devil

4. Philip Hughes, rhp, Yankees

5. Homer Bailey, rhp, Reds

6. Cameron Maybin, of, Tigers

7. Evan Longoria, 3b, Devil Rays

8. Brandon Wood, ss, Angels

9. Justin Upton, of, Diamondbacks

10. Andrew Miller, lhp, Tigers

11. Tim Lincecum, rhp, Giants

12. Chris Young, of, Diamondbacks

13. Andrew McCutchen, of, Pirates

14. Jay Bruce, of, Reds

15. Troy Tulowitzki, ss, Rockies

16. Yovani Gallardo, rhp, Brewers

17. Reid Brignac, ss, Devil Rays

18. Carlos Gonzalez, of, Diamondbacks

19. Andy LaRoche, 3b, Dodgers

20. Mike Pelfrey, rhp, Mets

21. Matt Garza, rhp, Twins

22. Fernando Martinez, of, Mets

23. Adam Miller, rhp, Guardians

24. Clayton Kershaw, lhp, Dodgers

25. Billy Butler, of, Royals

26. Ryan Braun, 3b, Brewers

[User Name]

That's terrible reasoning though.

[Lucienbel]

There's no harm in knocking. I just have so little expectation that the door will actually open that my attentions as a fan are directed elsewhere.

 

Agreed here.

 

Stanton would fill a hole the Red Sox have had recently by giving them one very reliable Superstar quality outfielder. Plus, with his power he'd tear Fenway up.

 

This is a tough trade. Now doesn't seem to be the right time for the Red Sox though it may be the only time he's available. There's still a lot that needs to be seen with how the Sox shape up prospect wise and how the guys we've signed perform. Personally, I don't think it's the right choice for this reason alone. However, they may end up looking different by the All Star break and depending on how things shape out, I'd be more or less inclined to go for it then if it could happen.

[Palodios]

That's terrible reasoning though.

 

I just don't think Stanton is worth Bradley, Barnes and Bogaertz, plus others. The cost to get him is going to be something this team will regret for many many years.

[seabeachfred]

The Tigers were incredibly lucky with the players they traded... most of them didn't get anywhere. But trading away two top 20 prospects is very dangerous. Look at the list from 2007. Do you really have faith in this Red Sox organization to know which players to trade away, and which players to keep? Right now, I don't.

 

1. Daisuke Matsuzaka, rhp, Red Sox

2. Alex Gordon, 3b, Royals

3. Delmon Young, of, Devil

4. Philip Hughes, rhp, Yankees

5. Homer Bailey, rhp, Reds

6. Cameron Maybin, of, Tigers

7. Evan Longoria, 3b, Devil Rays

8. Brandon Wood, ss, Angels

9. Justin Upton, of, Diamondbacks

10. Andrew Miller, lhp, Tigers

11. Tim Lincecum, rhp, Giants

12. Chris Young, of, Diamondbacks

13. Andrew McCutchen, of, Pirates

14. Jay Bruce, of, Reds

15. Troy Tulowitzki, ss, Rockies

16. Yovani Gallardo, rhp, Brewers

17. Reid Brignac, ss, Devil Rays

18. Carlos Gonzalez, of, Diamondbacks

19. Andy LaRoche, 3b, Dodgers

20. Mike Pelfrey, rhp, Mets

21. Matt Garza, rhp, Twins

22. Fernando Martinez, of, Mets

23. Adam Miller, rhp, Guardians

24. Clayton Kershaw, lhp, Dodgers

25. Billy Butler, of, Royals

26. Ryan Braun, 3b, Brewers

 

First of all Palodios, I'm taking the position that Stanton may be on the trading block. That I do not know and the Marlins say that he isn't, but if they decide to say we're going all out to rebuild, then I say go for it. Giancarlo is 23 years old, not even close to entering his prime and already is a budding superstar. He is worth the chance-----just as long as we are able to hold onto at least two of the four young pitching prospects we're supposed to be high on. Holding onto three would even be better. Stanton is cost controlled for a few more years yet and we have the money saved by not going the FA route to resign him when the time comes. Players like this do not come along veruy often and look at how it worked for the Tigers. Cabrera got them to a WS and a couple of division titles already and he may lead them to more. Stanton could do something similar for us. I say go for it.

[Palodios]

First of all Palodios, I'm taking the position that Stanton may be on the trading block. That I do not know and the Marlins say that he isn't, but if they decide to say we're going all out to rebuild, then I say go for it. Giancarlo is 23 years old, not even close to entering his prime and already is a budding superstar. He is worth the chance-----just as long as we are able to hold onto at least two of the four young pitching prospects we're supposed to be high on. Holding onto three would even be better. Stanton is cost controlled for a few more years yet and we have the money saved by not going the FA route to resign him when the time comes. Players like this do not come along veruy often and look at how it worked for the Tigers. Cabrera got them to a WS and a couple of division titles already and he may lead them to more. Stanton could do something similar for us. I say go for it.

 

One player won't change the fate of this team(EDIT: Unless that player is a pitcher). Remember in 2010 when the Red Sox didn't go to the playoffs, so they decided to trade their entire farm system for a big hitting first baseman? How did that go?

[Bellhorn04]

One player won't change the fate of this team(EDIT: Unless that player is a pitcher). Remember in 2010 when the Red Sox didn't go to the playoffs, so they decided to trade their entire farm system for a big hitting first baseman? How did that go?

 

Yep. If we're going to part with some of our top prospects I think it should only be for a top pitcher.

[User Name]

I just don't think Stanton is worth Bradley, Barnes and Bogaertz, plus others. The cost to get him is going to be something this team will regret for many many years.

 

This is better formulated. I would personally part with Bradley and Bogaert, but not Barnes. Pitching is too hard too find, and this team lacks it.

[User Name]

Yep. If we're going to part with some of our top prospects I think it should only be for a top pitcher.

 

Then again, there's the inherent danger of trading for/giving big money to a pitcher, because of how easy it is for a single injury to wreck a pitcher's career.

[Spitball]

One player won't change the fate of this team(EDIT: Unless that player is a pitcher). Remember in 2010 when the Red Sox didn't go to the playoffs, so they decided to trade their entire farm system for a big hitting first baseman? How did that go?

 

I agree. The Red Sox need pitching before a big hitting outfielder. Besides, great outfielders don't always get their teams to World Series.

 

Henry Aaron went to only 2 in 23 years.

Yastrzemski 2 in 23

Bonds 1 in 22

Griffey Jr. 0 in 22

Ted Williams 1 in 19

 

That is 6 World Series and only 1 Championship in 109 seasons. Great outfielders don't always win championships.

[seabeachfred]

One player won't change the fate of this team(EDIT: Unless that player is a pitcher). Remember in 2010 when the Red Sox didn't go to the playoffs, so they decided to trade their entire farm system for a big hitting first baseman? How did that go?

 

There is more to the Gonzales story that Palodios and you know that. On paper it looked like a great trade---a power hitting, slick fielding first baseman in his prime. The problem was twofold, though. Gonzales was reputed to be still not completely healthy, turned out to be a bad fit to play in Boston and was coveted by the Dodgers with their large Mexican population where Adrian would feel more comfortable, not to mention the opportunity to dump Beckett and Crawfordd's contracts. Yes, it cost us Anthony Rizzo, but the other two players, Casey Kelly and Ray Fuentes haven't done much to elicit the ringing of Bells. Fuentes has seriously regressed and Kelly has been rather ineffective in the minors.

 

I wish we still had Rizzo on our team because he is a definite future stalwart and it speaks to the stupidity of the front office that almost until the end they considered "Lazy Lars" Anderson the superior first base prospect than Anthony. Jed Hoyer knew better.

[User Name]

They did not consider Anderson a superior prospect. Stop making stuff up. The Padres targeted Rizzo because he was the better of the two.

[Palodios]

There is more to the Gonzales story that Palodios and you know that. On paper it looked like a great trade---a power hitting, slick fielding first baseman in his prime. The problem was twofold, though. Gonzales was reputed to be still not completely healthy, turned out to be a bad fit to play in Boston and was coveted by the Dodgers with their large Mexican population where Adrian would feel more comfortable, not to mention the opportunity to dump Beckett and Crawfordd's contracts. Yes, it cost us Anthony Rizzo, but the other two players, Casey Kelly and Ray Fuentes haven't done much to elicit the ringing of Bells. Fuentes has seriously regressed and Kelly has been rather ineffective in the minors.

 

This situation is identical to the Gonzalez situation. The only difference is that instead of costing three very good prospects, he'll cost five, maybe six. If Stanton is available for any less than that, there must be a reason he's being shopped.

 

Not sure what you're talking about with Kelly-- he showed plenty of potential in the minors. He's young enough that he can definitely bounce back from a few mediocre games in the minors.

[Spitball]

The 2000 -2003 Rangers had a young slugger named Alex Rodriguez who averaged 52 homeruns in those three years. Those teams also had Juan Gonzalez, Mark Teixiera, Ivan Rodriguez, and Hank Blaylock.

 

Those teams also averaged more than 90 loses per year. Why? Because the Rangers invested in offense. They traded away pitching prospects like John Danks, Chris Young, and Armmando Galerraga.

 

When did the Rangers turn things around? When they started focusing on pitching.

[User Name]

And that's why the Red Sox should not trade any of their top pitching prospects for Mike Stanton.

[SoxSport]

I spent the better part of yesterday aft tweeting with a local sportswriter who wanted to know PRECISELY how the Red Sox could get Stanton. Well, I said you make them an offer they can't refuse. You surprise them. Offer them what they would never expect to get. For example, throw Buchholz out there. Then maybe Bailey. They could use some pitching on both ends that isn't too expensive. Finally, top it off with a prospect. Take your pick.

 

That kind of offer would get their attention. Of course, Ben would crap his pants making an offer like that.

 

I figure Buchholz is replaceable, and Bailey is liable to get hurt shaving. A kid like Stanton would make those Green Monster seats a safety hazard.

[User Name]

Yeah, the Marlins are obviously looking for oft-injured, underperforming pitchers making significant money. That's exactly what they want. Make that offer Ben!

[Palodios]

I spent the better part of yesterday aft tweeting with a local sportswriter who wanted to know PRECISELY how the Red Sox could get Stanton. Well, I said you make them an offer they can't refuse. You surprise them. Offer them what they would never expect to get. For example, throw Buchholz out there. Then maybe Bailey. They could use some pitching on both ends that isn't too expensive. Finally, top it off with a prospect. Take your pick.

 

That kind of offer would get their attention. Of course, Ben would crap his pants making an offer like that.

 

I figure Buchholz is replaceable, and Bailey is liable to get hurt shaving. A kid like Stanton would make those Green Monster seats a safety hazard.

 

Oh dear. Are you the person I've been spending all this time arguing against? Clearly I've been wasting my time.

[Dojji]

Why yes, I'm sure that any team would love to trade 22 year old superstars for damaged goods and a prospect.

 

Dear lord. I'm no genius myself but.... dear lord.

[Spitball]

This is an excellent article on this topic:

Of the five pitchers making up the 10 best starting rotations in the league in each of the last three seasons, 52 percent have come up through their team’s farm system as draft picks or international free agents. Another 24 percent have been acquired via trade — either as veterans for prospects (like Gio Gonzalez or Roy Halladay) or as a prospect who later blossomed (like Jair Jurrjens or Adam Wainwright). Still another eight percent could be classified as scrap-heap free agents who were more afterthoughts than sought after (like R.A. Dickey or Brandon McCarthy).

That a team can never have enough pitching is the oldest truism in baseball. Teams that have to build their pitching rotations through the free-agent market tend to be teams that don’t succeed.

 

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/red-sox/content/20130127-red-sox-hoping-their-young-arms-will-eventually-pay-off.ece

[jacksonianmarch]

Buchholz and Bailey for Stanton. I dont even think MLB the Show would allow that deal.

[User Name]

Plus a prospect.....don't forget the prospect.

[seabeachfred]

They did not consider Anderson a superior prospect. Stop making stuff up. The Padres targeted Rizzo because he was the better of the two.

 

It's bad enough you an insufferable know it all sawed off little jerk, but to be full of it besides, boy you take the cake. In 2008 Anderson was rated the No. 1 Red Sox prospect and I think for a few months in 2009 he was up there too. Next time try to make sure your brain is engaged before putting your big mouth in gear. Jed Hoyer knew that Anderson was overrated and Rizzo a comer and that is why he smartly chose him while we stayed stuck with "Lazy Lars" until he wasn't worth anymore as a ballplayer than you are as a man. Now get lost and do not communicate with me again. I want no part of you.

[jacksonianmarch]

I would assume a middling level prospect, right? Wouldnt want to give up too much.

[jacksonianmarch]

They did not consider Anderson a superior prospect. Stop making stuff up. The Padres targeted Rizzo because he was the better of the two.

 

Anderson was a big time prospect, but by the time the deal for AdGon came about, Lars had already washed out. He apparently didnt live up to the 20 time all star floor that Dojji predicted, lol

[User Name]

It's bad enough you an insufferable know it all sawed off little s***, but to be full of it besides, boy you take the cake. In 2008 Anderson was rated the No. 1 Red Sox prospect and I think for a few months in 2009 he was up there too. Next time try to make sure your brain is engaged before putting your big mouth in gear. Jed Hoyer knew that Anderson was overrated and Rizzo a comer and that is why he smartly chose him while we stayed stuck with "Lazy Lars" until he wasn't worth anymore as a ballplayer than you are as a man. Now get lost and do not communicate with me again. I want no part of you.

 

It's not my fault you don't know what you're talking about.

[User Name]

Anderson was a big time prospect, but by the time the deal for AdGon came about, Lars had already washed out. He apparently didnt live up to the 20 time all star floor that Dojji predicted, lol

 

Everyone knows this except seabeachfred.