Enter: Will Middlebrooks

[jacksonianmarch]

UN, you do know that pointing to your pen as a strength and then pointing to Lester and Beckett as sure to turn it around seems a bit less realistic, right? I think the more realistic option is that the pen will regress and Lester and Beckett will get on track. Do you agree?

[User Name]

UN' date=' you do know that pointing to your pen as a strength and then pointing to Lester and Beckett as sure to turn it around seems a bit less realistic, right? I think the more realistic option is that the pen will regress and Lester and Beckett will get on track. Do you agree?[/quote']

 

I do. But remember that if the back-end of the BP can hold together for a while longer, it has reinforcements incoming in the form of Bailey, Melancon (who you know can't be that bad) and Bard when he reaches his innings cap.

 

Also, the regression of the BP should be to around league-average levels, not the eyesore from the beginning of the season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm not sure how suggesting that Lester and Beckett turning it around is not realistic?

 

Lester has thrown to a 2.45 ERA over his last 4 starts. Beckett had a stinker vs CLE, and even with that bad outing, he's got a 3.43 ERA over his last 7 starts. Projecting them to continue pitching like they have been over the past 5-7 starts is absolutely realistic. Not sure how that wouldn't translate.

 

As for the bullpen, no they're not going to post a 1.98 ERA this year. They have a team 3.80 ERA. As bad as the 1st month was, and as good as May has been, I think they will be right around the average of the two, which is a 3.80.

 

And it's not as though the Sox RP are just getting lucky. They've got a 3.80 ERA, a 3.90 FIP, and a 3.67 xFIP, a 76.1% Strand Rate, and a .290 BABIP. None of those numbers are outside of a normal range.

 

So expecting a 3.80 ERA (which is basically what UN said) is very valid. And that would be a good bullpen (Sox had a 3.67 ERA in their pen last year, which included Pap and Bard).

 

And again, as UN said, Melancon, Bailey, and Bard will all be in the pen by the end of the season which will be upgrades.

[redsoxbeatz]

When was the last time WMB got mentioned? Haha

 

Pitching talk goes in a pitching thread

[KCBRUIN]

“@ESPNBoston: Red Sox blog: Middlebrooks works out at shortstop http://t.co/trHMlEBn”

 

The plot thickens

[jung]

Since I have already posted that I want the Sox to find a way to move WMB to some position other than 3rd mainly to get AGons out of RF if the Sox are going to insist on keeping AGons, Youk and WMB in the lineup at the same time, working WMB out in other positions works for me.

[Rdsxmbnt]

“@ESPNBoston: Red Sox blog: Middlebrooks works out at shortstop http://t.co/trHMlEBn”

 

The plot thickens

 

would solve punto problem, move aviles to 2B

[BornToRun]

would solve punto problem' date=' move aviles to 2B[/quote']

 

Or we could just take punto to the gallows and hang him.

[Dojji]

I don't like it. The last thing we want to do is get Middlebrooks hurt, and asking that added level of mobility from him could serve to accomplish that.

[Spitball]

I don't like it. The last thing we want to do is get Middlebrooks hurt' date=' and asking that added level of mobility from him could serve to accomplish that.[/quote']

 

Maybe we are getting too paranoid about injuries. I am sure a twenty-two year-old will be okay at shortstop. The old-timers would be rolling over in their graves to hear such concerns.

[SoxSport]

I'd rather see Mbrooks at SS than Gonzo in RF. Sweeney showed the value of defense in RF at Fenway tonite.

 

Pods has been a pleasant surprise. He and Nava have been swinging good bats, and Pods can still run. If these guys keep it going, McDonald is going to find himself in AAA--assuming they keep Byrd.

[jung]

WMB is clearly a more athletic player than Agons. Agons is not just a risk in RF he is russian roulette out there. So I like the idea of working WMB out in different positions to see what he has. If he looks awkward and struggling, then I would not put him in that position. However at least working him out to see what he has makes sense.

[Palodios]

Is anyone else outraged that Will Middlebrooks has sat so many games lately? He gets two hits a night, and they bench him so Agon and Youkilis can strike out. If he's hot, let him play. I don't know how that seems to get ignored in this organization so often.

[jung]

I had posted last night that I would sit Agons a bit. He is not doing anything with the bat right now that justifies risking him in RF. It is just stupid to me. Let him sit a couple of games. Maybe he will come back hitting better again. To be honest that is really the right thing to do...a much better idea than playing WMB out of position or sitting him.

[a700hitter]

When interleague resumes, WMB will be the odd man out in the NL parks. They might as well send him down to AAA for that stretch to get him some ABs.

[Station 13]

When interleague resumes' date=' WMB will be the odd man out in the NL parks. They might as well send him down to AAA for that stretch to get him some ABs.[/quote']

 

So the lineup is something like a hapless Gonzalez, a post elite Youkilis, Aviles, Byrd, Punto, MacDime, and the pitcher?

[KCBRUIN]

Punto playing over WMB is a disgrace.

[seabeachfred]

I don't like it. The last thing we want to do is get Middlebrooks hurt' date=' and asking that added level of mobility from him could serve to accomplish that.[/quote']

 

Right now Dojii, with all due respect, I don't give a damn if you don't like it. I want Middlebrooks in that lineup. We play better when he's in it and he has proven that he can overcome a downturn in his hitting. He is batting over 300 with good power and RBI stats. I don't think any other team would be jerking around a kid with this kind of talent. Youkilis won't be traded unless 1--Prune Face is willing to eat some of that contract, and as he should all so painfully remember he refused to do that with Lowell in 2010 after four or five stories came out that he was as good as gone. Secondly, right now, Youkilis is not as good as Middlebrooks, and could be on his way to the DL again. With Pedey hurt we need Kevin in the lineup but to me anyway, not at the expense of keeping Middlebrooks on the pine.

 

Sit Gonzales tomorrow if we face a lefthander. He hasn't hit worth s*** all season and I'm sick up to my sweetbreads with all this ass kissing to our sacred cows. If you're not doing the job you need to sit your ass on the bench. If Will can play short, and I think he can, then give him a shot if that's the only way we can guarantee him a spot in the lineup. AND HE NEEDS TO BE IN THE LINEUP!!!!!!!!!

[seabeachfred]

Is anyone else outraged that Will Middlebrooks has sat so many games lately? He gets two hits a night' date=' and they bench him so Agon and Youkilis can strike out. If he's hot, let him play. I don't know how that seems to get ignored in this organization so often.[/quote']

 

Outraged my ass Palodios. I'm red hot furious the way they keep jerking Middlebrooks around. As far as wondering why it gets ignored by the Red Sox brass, keep in mind that our ownership and front office has become one big clusterf*** the past few years. We keep hearing all this ******** about "we have to play Youk so we can trade him". That is also ********. As long as Pedroia is out we will not make such a trade, and if and when he does return to the lineup, we will face the truth as to whether Prune Face would be willing to eat some of the contract to get Youkilis to another team. From prevous experience with Mike Lowell and others of recent vintage, I do not think Henry will eat any part of that contract. Agon needs to sit on the bench for a few games. He has played s***** all season and is fast becoming the Carl Crawford of 2012, and I start wondering if this guy is a bad fit for Boston?:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[example1]

Outraged my ass Palodios. I'm red hot furious the way they keep jerking Middlebrooks around. As far as wondering why it gets ignored by the Red Sox brass' date=' keep in mind that our ownership and front office has become one big clusterf*** the past few years. We keep hearing all this ******** about "we have to play Youk so we can trade him". That is also ********. As long as Pedroia is out we will not make such a trade, and if and when he does return to the lineup, we will face the truth as to whether Prune Face would be willing to eat some of the contract to get Youkilis to another team. From prevous experience with Mike Lowell and others of recent vintage, I do not think Henry will eat any part of that contract. Agon needs to sit on the bench for a few games. He has played s***** all season and is fast becoming the Carl Crawford of 2012, and I start wondering if this guy is a bad fit for Boston?:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown[/quote']

 

You take this s*** so personally SBF. "Red hot furious" about how they are treating a rookie? That's pretty extreme. I would hate to see how you get when something actually important comes your way...

 

Anyway, there are many competing factors at play here. Not the least of which is that the Sox are hoping to maximize any return they can get for Youkilis. Will they get that by sitting him? No.

 

Also, it wouldn't do Bobby Valentine any good to suddenly start Adrian Gonzalez like a second-rate MLB baseball player. The guy is an elite talent, and managers don't treat elite talents like league journeymen. Ask Pujols. Ask Teixeira.

 

While you are s***ing on Adrian Gonzalez, I'm looking at a guy who is willing to move to RF so the team can maximize the lineup while the OF is injured. The guy deserves a lot of respect for doing that. He could have bitched and moaned and made a scene, but he didn't.

 

I suspect the end result will be:

 

-Adrian Gonzalez turns it around and finishes the season with a good OPS and stellar defensive play

-Kevin Youkilis will return something pretty good

-Middlebrooks will be in the lineup consistently

 

Let's stop assuming that the Sox are a bunch of dumbasses who don't know what they are doing, at least for a few minutes.

[FredLynn]

Why isn't WMB playing second base instead of the useless oaf we had out there last night? Yes, its a loss defensively and there could be issues turning the double play, but do you guys really want to see any more of Nick Punto?

[mvp 78]

Has WMB ever in his life even sniffed time at 2b?

[Dojji]

No, and he's never in his pro career sniffed time at SS. I've heard some whispers that the workout at short went very poorly. "Fish out of water" was, I believe, the exact phrasing.

 

Just because you try something doesn't mean it works. Even if it might have been nice if it had.

[SoxFanForsyth]

No, and he's never in his pro career sniffed time at SS. I've heard some whispers that the workout at short went very poorly. "Fish out of water" was, I believe, the exact phrasing.

 

Just because you try something doesn't mean it works. Even if it might have been nice if it had.

 

Yeah I was really, really hopeful that Middlebrooks would be able to be just a below average (meaning not horrendous) SS for a couple games while Pedroia gets back in shape, but it appears that won't be the case.

 

Pretty big bummer, but can't do anything about it. Pedroia should be back early next week thankfully.

[FredLynn]

Has WMB ever in his life even sniffed time at 2b?

 

Probably not. How many times did Gonzalez play RF before he got here? Or Youk in LF before he did that for the team? I admit that there will be a loss defensively, but I think that unless he is a total clod out there at 2B he is preferable to having to witness the futility of Nick Punto at the plate.

[evilhand]

I think we're more likely to see Middlebrooks at short than 2nd with Aviles moving over to second base. Middlebrooks played short in high school, so at least he has *some* familiarity with the position. Turning him around in the infield by crossing him over second base seems like more of an issue to me than asking him to play short, where he probably won't have great range and will likely make his share of mistakes. But the net benefit of getting Punto out of the lineup seems worth it, IMO.

 

That said, I disagree with the sentiment expressed above about Youk being "post-elite." He's hitting .313/.371/.531 since returning from the DL. He's back to being an elite bat. Or, more likely, he never stopped being an elite bat and was slumping early due to the nagging injury.

 

This is why I'm hesitant to hand the keys over to Middlebrooks already. With Youk still being one of the best players in the league and Middlebrooks sporting a .400 BABIP... not to mention a nifty 29 to 4 k/bb ratio I fear we'd find ourselves with a sudden hole in the line up when Will hits his inevitable slump.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, Youk's .313 overall BABIP is deflated by his April. He has a .381 BABIP since returning, but his patient approach is less likely to drop off a cliff for a few weeks.

[mvp 78]

Probably not. How many times did Gonzalez play RF before he got here? Or Youk in LF before he did that for the team? I admit that there will be a loss defensively' date=' but I think that unless he is a total clod out there at 2B he is preferable to having to witness the futility of Nick Punto at the plate.[/quote']

 

AGon played a whole winterball season in RF. Youk played all of 2 games in LF before declaring he'd never go to the OF again.

[jung]

Sounds like WMB did very poorly at SS. That kills that. I am actually more surprised that they did not explore outfield a little bit. Must mean the Sox don't think he can do anything out there.

[FredLynn]

I think we're more likely to see Middlebrooks at short than 2nd with Aviles moving over to second base. Middlebrooks played short in high school, so at least he has *some* familiarity with the position. Turning him around in the infield by crossing him over second base seems like more of an issue to me than asking him to play short, where he probably won't have great range and will likely make his share of mistakes. But the net benefit of getting Punto out of the lineup seems worth it, IMO.

 

That said, I disagree with the sentiment expressed above about Youk being "post-elite." He's hitting .313/.371/.531 since returning from the DL. He's back to being an elite bat. Or, more likely, he never stopped being an elite bat and was slumping early due to the nagging injury.

 

This is why I'm hesitant to hand the keys over to Middlebrooks already. With Youk still being one of the best players in the league and Middlebrooks sporting a .400 BABIP... not to mention a nifty 29 to 4 k/bb ratio I fear we'd find ourselves with a sudden hole in the line up when Will hits his inevitable slump.

 

In the interest of full disclosure, Youk's .313 overall BABIP is deflated by his April. He has a .381 BABIP since returning, but his patient approach is less likely to drop off a cliff for a few weeks.

 

This is only NINE GAMES in which Youkilis has played well. Very small sample size. Lets look at a bigger sample size. From the ASB until the end of the season last year his OPS was .660. This year, for the whole season, his OPS is just .724, including the games in which he has played well. Youkilis is most likely not going to be here next year; he is in the final year of his contract. Middlebrooks is our 3B of the future. Moving Youkilis NOW rather than waiting for him to slide back into the doldrums he has been in for really the past 10 months maximizes our return for him. We may miss out on a few productive months, but in the long run, its the smartest thing to do.......IMO, of course.

[FredLynn]

AGon played a whole winterball season in RF. Youk played all of 2 games in LF before declaring he'd never go to the OF again.

 

We have to find a way to keep WMB in the lineup. And I haven't seen a link showing that he flunked his test at SS, just some talk here.