Enter: Will Middlebrooks

[jung]

To be honest the amount of player movement and resulting experimentation being contemplated is one of the things that makes me seriously doubt that the Sox are going to be able to make much progress toward the post season this year even with the added WC. It is not the only issue but it is one of them.

 

We have Youk who if the Sox had their druthers would have just started this season and had as close to a typical Youk type of good season as possible. Instead he ends up validating our concerns about what might go wrong with him this year about as completely as possible leaving the Sox with another heavy contract player and really not many options as far as what to do with him.

 

In truth I think the Sox are forced to give Youk playing time. While it does showcase him, I really don't think that is what they want to do with Youk this year. The Sox would really like Youk to makes his way back because if he does, the Sox know what they have in Youk. As well as WMB has played and as much as I would maybe prefer that Youk just disappear in some way that gets the Sox something in return in truth, the Sox really don't know what they have in WMB. Might he turn into a pumpkin via his lack of experience at the ML level? Might pitchers learn how to pitch to him and take the edge off of how sharply he has performed at the plate so far? Yes on both counts. Neither possibility diminishes WMB's value long term but if Youk were gone and WMB turned into a pumpkin at that point, all you have to do is look at how the Sox look with Youk doing poorly to see how they would look with WMB doing poorly.

 

They designed this year's roster with Youk succeeding in mind possibly even considering exercising the team option on him for next year if he really excelled. As much as I don't like it I don't think the Sox end up sellers on Youk unless they end up sellers with a capital S this year. So in my view the Sox end up having to give Youk time at 3rd mainly because they really can't afford to give up on the Youk that they were hoping to get this year.

 

Then we will soon be confronted with the dice experiment. Bard will soon eat through the innings that the Sox have probably allotted to the Bard to the rotation experiment and will likely have dice up here with the Sox trying to figure out if he can pitch well enough to move Bard back to the pen for the balance of the season. There is the Cook experiment sort of still born at the moment but still hanging out there waiting to be revisited.

 

There is the fact that while Salty has these moments of glory there is little to suggest that they are more than that and it is hard not to want to get the Lavs experiment going because the Sox also know what they have with Salty at this point. The difference between Youk and Salty is that while if Youk gets going the Sox will want what they can get from Youk, if Salty gets going you are still stuck with little that will help this team succeed. While Salty is strong and capable of going deep this year even when he is giving us the best he has to offer at the plate he is still surrounding his successful at bats with tons of punch outs to pitchers that are not what you would consider Cy Young candidates or even top of some team rotation candidates.

 

While we would desperately like to pencil CC in for a season similar to a TB season we have nothing to go on that says there is more than a 50-50 chance of that happening. Add to that now the fact that Ells has suffered a large joint injury. As such, a degree of uncertainty exists with regard to what we might expect from Ells when he gets back. If you don't think that is so, tell me we have the player we thought we would have in Agons....who has turned into Wade Boggs in a larger suit size.

 

And then there is the one thing that has been pretty reliable so far this season. It has gotten to the point where you could pretty much rely on 1,2, 3 in the rotation stinking up the joint.

 

While I love seeing us finally win a few games and I love seeing some of the Pawtucket gang really having a major impact after I wake up from my victory induced drunken stupor I am stuck with the same set of problems that I had at the start of the evening.

[Bellhorn04]

If I'm a GM, I have little interest in an aging player who has broken down 3 straight years.

 

His trade value is miniscule. Keep him as a RH bat off the bench and insurance in case of injury.

 

At the very least he would have value as a backup corner infielder who starts against lefties. This year he's only had 18 PA's against lefties but he has 5 hits and 4 walks. Last year he had a .987 OPS against lefties.

[Elktonnick]

That's the best course of action in my opinion as well. There is no way in hell that the Red Sox should send Middlebrooks down to the minors again. He seems like the real thing and has a great future for us. Youk has no trade value to speak of at the present time and' date=' frankly, I don't want to give him some by playing him and relegating Will somewhere else, either the bench or Pawtucket. It is time to turn the page on that one. Besides, we all know now that Kevin will not be with us next year and the only question would be if Henry would be willing to eat the contract and release him if he starts to act up when he comes back because of a lack of playing time.[/quote']

 

Youk is a problem in the clubhouse, That's why it is more costly to keep him than trade him.

The idea that somehow his trade value increases sufficiently to compensate for the disadvantage of keeping simply isn't worth it.

[redsoxbeatz]

At the very least he would have value as a backup corner infielder who starts against lefties. This year he's only had 18 PA's against lefties but he has 5 hits and 4 walks. Last year he had a .987 OPS against lefties.

 

I like this for a "at the very least" plan.

 

I doubt Youk gets traded, too. Actually, I doubt much of anything will happen for the Red Sox dealing with the trade deadline.

[mvp 78]

Nava called WMB "Brooksie." Yuck.

[a700hitter]

I don't know what makes you consistently keep thinking this. I am not saying you are wrong, but Middlebrooks is doing everything in his power to be the starting. He has been better than Youkilis this year. Why would we go back to him if Middlebrooks is doing better? That makes no sense. Just because Youk is making more money and has been a good hitter in the past does not mean that he is going to perform better, deserves playing time, or automatically gets his spot back at 3B. He is injury prone and has struggled this year.

 

Also, I keep seeing you constantly saying Nava is going to start to do worse. There is no proof of that. Nava looks like a solid player. I am not saying you are wrong about that, but as of now the kid is performing very well and is deserving playing time. You keep on saying that you do not know why he is hitting sixth, but so far he is deserving to hit sixth. With him on the team, we have been a better team.

People are all caught up in the emotion of the new toy. Teams do not give away the starting jobs of their cleanup hitter based on a couple of good weeks from a guy while the cleanup hitter/All Star is on a 15 day DL. Second, Youk's trade value right now is well below his true worth. Cherrington has no balls to pull a trade where he essentially gives away an All Star and eats his contract. He hasn't made a single bold move yet. I don't see him starting off with Youk, unless Youk is having fist fights in the club house. 3. When Youk comes back, the Sox will do one of the following with WMB: Option him to AAA, Put him on the bench, or try him in the OF where we have openings. He will not start at 3B before Youk gets the opportunity to prove that he can still play or he punches someone in the face.

 

As for Nava, he is not a major league player. He lacks size and skill. He's hot right now, and they brought him up at the right time, but he will fade. I have said it before. He is comparable to Morgan Burkhart but with a lot less power. His career will follow a similar path. He'll never see the majors after this season. The fact that he is here is not cause for excitement. It is cause for concern, because it is an indication of the severe deficiencies in our OF. BTW: All those years ago I got all excited about Morgan Burkhart. I have learned not to get excited about career bush leaguers.

[a700hitter]

Johan for Youkilis is not a possibility, because Cherries isn't going to take on the huge financial commitment to a post op Pitcher and the Mets are committed to both Wright and Davis at the corners. If either flops, they have a very good cheap young hitter waiting ion the wings in Murphy.

[a700hitter]

That's the best course of action in my opinion as well. There is no way in hell that the Red Sox should send Middlebrooks down to the minors again. He seems like the real thing and has a great future for us. Youk has no trade value to speak of at the present time and' date=' frankly, I don't want to give him some by playing him and relegating Will somewhere else, either the bench or Pawtucket. It is time to turn the page on that one. Besides, we all know now that Kevin will not be with us next year and the only question would be if Henry would be willing to eat the contract and release him if he starts to act up when he comes back because of a lack of playing time.[/quote']Fred, good to see you back. Do you think it is realistic that Cherries has the balls to release Youk's before determining whether he can still play? I don't.

[mvp 78]

I think Fred is talking about this offseason?

[mvp 78]

Rolen placed on DL. Maybe Youk has a chance at going to Cincy after all?

[a700hitter]

Rolen placed on DL. Maybe Youk has a chance at going to Cincy after all?

Rolen goes on the DL every year. They haven't traded for a 3B those prior times. Why would this time be different? Is he out for the year?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Youkilis is going to turn into Lowell 2010/Michael Young 2011. He will play a little 3rd, a little 1st, a little LF, and a little DH.

 

The kid is a top 50 prospect in the MLB, the Sox top prospect, the future 3B, and he is hitting .310 with a 1.070 OPS, and has just 3 fewer HR than Ortiz in less than 1/3 of the games.

 

He is 6th on the team in HR, 7th in RBI, and has played 10 of the teams 34 games. You cannot touch this guy because what he is doing right now is clearly working. The absolute last thing you want to do is move a 23 year old middle of the order hitter to a different, unknown position where his ABs can be affected by his defense.

 

Look, you've struck gold with WMB. Why would you change that for an aging player who hasn't hit well since July of last season, is on the DL often, can't play very good defense, and is likely a clubhouse problem based on his attitude.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Youkilis is going to turn into Lowell 2010/Michael Young 2011. He will play a little 3rd, a little 1st, a little LF, and a little DH.

 

The kid is a top 50 prospect in the MLB, the Sox top prospect, the future 3B, and he is hitting .310 with a 1.070 OPS, and has just 3 fewer HR than Ortiz in less than 1/3 of the games.

 

He is 6th on the team in HR, 7th in RBI, and has played 10 of the teams 34 games. You cannot touch this guy because what he is doing right now is clearly working. The absolute last thing you want to do is move a 23 year old middle of the order hitter to a different, unknown position where his ABs can be affected by his defense.

 

Look, you've struck gold with WMB. Why would you change that for an aging player who hasn't hit well since July of last season, is on the DL often, can't play very good defense, and is likely a clubhouse problem based on his attitude.

[mvp 78]

Rolen goes on the DL every year. They haven't traded for a 3B those prior times. Why would this time be different? Is he out for the year?

 

The Cincinnati Enquirer is wondering if it might be career ending, that he's no longer an everyday player. His arthritic shoulder is holding up worse than in prior years.

[a700hitter]

Youkilis is going to turn into Lowell 2010/Michael Young 2011. He will play a little 3rd, a little 1st, a little LF, and a little DH.

 

The kid is a top 50 prospect in the MLB, the Sox top prospect, the future 3B, and he is hitting .310 with a 1.070 OPS, and has just 3 fewer HR than Ortiz in less than 1/3 of the games.

 

He is 6th on the team in HR, 7th in RBI, and has played 10 of the teams 34 games. You cannot touch this guy because what he is doing right now is clearly working. The absolute last thing you want to do is move a 23 year old middle of the order hitter to a different, unknown position where his ABs can be affected by his defense.

 

Look, you've struck gold with WMB. Why would you change that for an aging player who hasn't hit well since July of last season, is on the DL often, can't play very good defense, and is likely a clubhouse problem based on his attitude.

Why are you arguing with me. I'm not the one giving Youk back his job. That's just the way it is going to be unless he hits a snag in his rehab. Barring an additional physical setback or punching someone in the clubhouse, Youk gets his job back. I am already on the line to buy you beer if Dice K is back in the rotation. How about you buy me a beer if Youk's doesn't get back his starting job barring an additional physical setback or punching someone in the face?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Why are you arguing with me. I'm not the one giving Youk back his job. That's just the way it is going to be unless he hits a snag in his rehab. Barring an additional physical setback or punching someone in the clubhouse' date=' Youk gets his job back. I am already on the line to buy you beer if Dice K is back in the rotation. How about you buy me a beer if Youk's doesn't get back his starting job barring an additional physical setback or punching someone in the face?[/quote']

 

Deal. But this is it. There's only so much I can drink :harhar:

[seabeachfred]

Fred' date=' good to see you back. Do you think it is realistic that Cherries has the balls to release Youk's before determining whether he can still play? I don't.[/quote']

 

I think Cherries is about as gutless as they come so, no, I do not think it is realistic that he would send Youk packing. Besides, we have Prune Face Henry who loathes eating any part of a contract, but the fact remains Middlebrooks has shown that he can play up in the Bigs and to bench him or send him down would not only be criminal but would get the fans, press and media all over the front office---and they are getting hammered enough already.

 

We also know that that if Youk gets back in the lineup there is no guarantee that he will come around offensively or even stay in one piece and the risk of taking that chance on the hope he could perform and we'd get something for him at the trading deadline is foolhardy in my opinion. Valentine must stand straight and tall and make it clear that he is the one who will decide who plays on the field and he has strongly hinted he wants Will in there.

 

Youk is gone at the end of the season, but if you want to know my real feeling on this potential hot potato my friend, it is that we should cut loose of Kevin, either telling him he is a reserve or trading him for whatever we could get for him in order not to cause any more tension in an already tension-ridden clubhouse.

 

BTW, good to be back 700. I had to leave last month because I was so hot under the collar that I had convinced myself I would g o off the deep end and get into a hot duel with some of the more, shall we say, optimists on the board and get myself suspended.

[seabeachfred]

I think Fred is talking about this offseason?

 

MVP---I think Youk is a done deal after this season and it wouldn't take any courage on Cherries part since it would save Henry close to 14 million dollars. However, I would like to see something done sooner if possible. Sure, Middlebrooks could suddenly go in the tank and flop miserably, but you've seen him play and you've seen him bat. You think this guy isn't the real thing? Third base is now covered for the next 10-12 years if Will stays healthy and the Red Sox don't screw up.

 

I am not risk adverse like Cherries is but the payoff hoping Youk will get hot and then the market will open up for him this summer is fool's gold in my opinion. What is more likely to happen is that he keeps going South with his play and then gets hurt and in and out of the lineup. As good as he's been for us, he is fast becoming a sunk cost and it is time to move on. We have a very good replacement and one who could be a big part of our future. This is no time for Cherries or Lucchino or Henry to gum up the works on this issue.

 

BTW, did you get out to LA this month or last?

[mvp 78]

I agree, no way does Youk come back next year. While there is value in placing him on the bench, the organization should weigh the risk/reward of obtaining a mediocre trade return vs any clubhouse issues which may or may not exist.

 

We made it out to CA last month. Next trip may either be August or December.

[YAZMAN]

I think they'd trade him for a prospect right now if they could dump the salary with him. I can't help but feel that 2012 is the Year of the Dump in Boston. They won't eat salary to do it, they'd wait the season out and get compensated for losing him to FA.

[a700hitter]

I am not risk adverse like Cherries is but the payoff hoping Youk will get hot and then the market will open up for him this summer is fool's gold in my opinion. What is more likely to happen is that he keeps going South with his play and then gets hurt and in and out of the lineup. As good as he's been for us, he is fast becoming a sunk cost and it is time to move on. We have a very good replacement and one who could be a big part of our future. This is no time for Cherries or Lucchino or Henry to gum up the works on this issue.

I think this is the course they will take. They will let Youkilis play himself out of the lineup or get injured again.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Cherrington has to know that if he keeps on putting Youkilis out there and Youk either A)keeps trying to play injured or keeps sucking like he has been, they're just throwing games away.

 

If you look at how well Middlebrooks has been playing and producing runs night in and night out, there is zero justification in sending him back down.

 

I know it's only been 10 games, but look at his numbers. 10 G, 4 HR, 5 2B, 13 RBI, .310 Average, 1.070 OPS. Those are the kinds of numbers you pray that you get from a guy like Adrian Gonzalez. And you're getting them from a 23 year old kid.

[a700hitter]

Cherrington has to know that if he keeps on putting Youkilis out there and Youk either A)keeps trying to play injured or keeps sucking like he has been, they're just throwing games away.

 

If you look at how well Middlebrooks has been playing and producing runs night in and night out, there is zero justification in sending him back down.

 

I know it's only been 10 games, but look at his numbers. 10 G, 4 HR, 5 2B, 13 RBI, .310 Average, 1.070 OPS. Those are the kinds of numbers you pray that you get from a guy like Adrian Gonzalez. And you're getting them from a 23 year old kid.

It's only 10 games and Cherries doesn't have the guts to bench or release an $11 million player. It's as simple as that. You guys are going to go crazy when this goes down. Expect nothing from the FO, and you will never be disappointed.

 

Look, it was as clear as the nose on your face that this team need to acquire some pitching in the off season. They didn't. People made excuses about how our pitching would be fine because we no longer had Lackey and Wakefield. Up to this juncture, our team pitching is worse than last year. I'm not interested in any excuses. The FO very often doesn't do what is clearly needed, so don't expect them to do the right thing in the WMB situation.

[a700hitter]

Yes, Middlebrooks has been red hot in his 10 games, but it is only 10 games. This blurb puts it in perspective:

 

With a homer and two RBIs Sunday, Will Middlebrooks became the third player to total at least four home runs and 13 RBI over his first 10 big-league games. The others are the Royals' Mark Quinn in September 1999 (5 HRs, 15 RBIs) and the Mariners' Alvin Davis in April 1984 (4 HRs, 13 RBIs).

Davis had a nice career, but these guys were not super stars. It's 10 games. It means nothing.

[TutGadol]

Yes, Middlebrooks has been red hot in his 10 games, but it is only 10 games. This blurb puts it in perspective:

 

Davis had a nice career, but these guys were not super stars. It's 10 games. It means nothing.

 

You have a habit of bringing everybody down whenever we are on a bandwagon. Not sure if we should thank you for that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It's only 10 games and Cherries doesn't have the guts to bench or release an $11 million player. It's as simple as that. You guys are going to go crazy when this goes down. Expect nothing from the FO, and you will never be disappointed.

 

Look, it was as clear as the nose on your face that this team need to acquire some pitching in the off season. They didn't. People made excuses about how our pitching would be fine because we no longer had Lackey and Wakefield. Up to this juncture, our team pitching is worse than last year. I'm not interested in any excuses. The FO very often doesn't do what is clearly needed, so don't expect them to do the right thing in the WMB situation.

 

Problem isn't Middlebrooks' small sample size.

 

Problem is Youkilis and he's got a more than adequate sample size.

 

Since July 17th, Youk has hit .197/.297/.342. That's a total of 53 games, and over 220 plate appearances. He's had 23 BB's and 50 K's.

 

This isn't the small sample of Middlebrooks. This is time to move on from Youkilis, and we are extremely fortunate to have a guy like Middlebrooks who is ready. Now it's up to the FO to make the right decision and let Middlebrooks prove that he shouldn't be starting at 3rd base instead of having Youkilis try to prove that he should. You'll win a whole lot more games with WMB there than you will with Youk scuffling, and coming off an injury.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And for what it's worth, most people are saying Rolen is done for good (sports writers, etc). I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see Youk dealt to CIN.

[KCBRUIN]

I think its promising that after the 0-4 game, WMB comes back with a 2-3 night including a HR, 2 rbi's, and a walk to boot.

 

I'm thinking Youk to Cincy for a bowl of chili.

[a700hitter]

You have a habit of bringing everybody down whenever we are on a bandwagon. Not sure if we should thank you for that.

Have we met? I don't know whether people should thank me, but I am trying to prepare people for the disappointment when Youks is back. SFF is very enthusiastic about this, and he is right about the issue. However, we are all about to find out that the FO isnot packed full of smart people. Money will not be an excuse this time. They have to pay Youk one way or another, unless some team takes part of his salary. The FO isn't very smart and they are gutless too-- about the same as most sports franchises.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It's sad, isn't it?

 

The FO's job should be to put the best team on the field that has the best chance to win games. But instead, money rules all. Usually the highest paid players are the best players, but in some cases, much like this, that isn't the case, but GM's have no balls outside of maybe a guy like Friedman.