Ben Cherington

[jung]

When I wrote "Kind of hard to understand" I guess I should have written "Kind of hard to understand why the Sox can't get this one right either". Boston is only one of the most respected medical centers on the planet and this is an issue that has survived several ownership groups and different medical teams.

[iortiz]

Red Sox assistant GM Ben Cherington, who's expected to replace outgoing GM Theo Epstein, said he wouldn't make any decisions about banning alcohol without first consulting the new manager, The Globe reported Thursday.

 

"As with any clubhouse policy, we wouldn’t make any determination without talking to the manager,’’ Cherington said. “Since the manager is not in place, it’s too early to say."

 

Is this our brand new GM? Really? WTF?

[SCM33]

Is this our brand new GM? Really? WTF?

 

The alcohol is not the root of the problem.

 

The real problem is changing the attitude and culture of the locker room. I dont care what they do as long as they are a team and they are winning.

 

The drinking in the clubhouse in this instance was done by a selfish clique of players which by the looks of it, divided the clubhouse into different groups.

[example1]

Is this our brand new GM? Really? WTF?

 

They didn't hate Theo Epstein as much as you were convinced they did.

[iortiz]

The alcohol is not the root of the problem.

 

The real problem is changing the attitude and culture of the locker room. I dont care what they do as long as they are a team and they are winning.

 

The drinking in the clubhouse in this instance was done by a selfish clique of players which by the looks of it, divided the clubhouse into different groups.

 

Sorry SCM33 this is unacceptable. You know that I share your ideas and I like the way u see the game but this comment (Cherington's) is simply unacceptable.

 

I'm not a saint, I'm far to be one, but this is a professional sport team, and since their performance depend on their good conditioning among a lot other, this is not a trivial thing. This team has a big lack of professionalism and leadership.

 

As I said, we need people (GM, manager, coaching staff, etc.) with a strong hand and strong leadership skills, someone who executes disciple in all aspects.

[iortiz]

They didn't hate Theo Epstein as much as you were convinced they did.

 

I'm not sure what you mean with "they", but this is not about hate E1, this is about professionalism and at least behave and give your best in and out the field. They make tons of money in order to at least do that.

 

You always can find times and places for everything.

[FenwayDirtDog]

I agree with chinmusic, the beer thing isn't the main issue. 28 of 30 MLB teams have beer supplied in the clubhouse. It's a part of baseball. It's just a big issue with Boston right now because 3 elite starters were drinking it during games, mixed with the fact the Sox didn't make the postseason and the fact that the media is just loving the attention it's drawn.

[iortiz]

I agree with chinmusic' date=' the beer thing isn't the main issue. [b']28 of 30 MLB teams have beer supplied in the clubhouse[/b]. It's a part of baseball. It's just a big issue with Boston right now because 3 elite starters were drinking it during games, mixed with the fact the Sox didn't make the postseason and the fact that the media is just loving the attention it's drawn.

 

Really? I'm wrong then. Sounds like a best practice. You're kidding right?

 

BTW... Of course alcohol is not the root of the problem, but maybe is one of those 25 issues on this team that we need to clean up.

[FenwayDirtDog]

No not saying you're wrong, just my opinion. Nobody knows for sure unless they are physically in the clubhouse themselves, but when you look at the facts, the history of the game, and everyday routine of the players, guys drinking beer does not seem like an issue. I don't think banning beer from the clubhouse is a smart move. I think the guys who did drink during games just simply need to...not do that.

 

Is this deal even going to go through? Seems like both clubs are spinning their tires in the mud now...

[a700hitter]

They didn't hate Theo Epstein as much as you were convinced they did.

My goodness you are such a Theo devotee. Everything is not about Theo. Red Sox Nation is in a post-Theo world. It shouldn't be too tough to move into the future. Cubs fans are the ones that need to be concerned. Unlike in Boston where Theo was handed the keys of a powerhouse, he'll be starting from scratch in Chicago.

[SoxSport]

Cherington should shut up. They should all shut up.

 

These guys are pretty stupid, PR-wise. The media is taking them to lunch.

[Cask N Flagon 76]

Cherington should shut up. They should all shut up.

 

These guys are pretty stupid, PR-wise. The media is taking them to lunch.

 

 

I understand where you are coming from but think of it this way if the new GM doesn't say a word how would that look in the media as well.

[ORS]

WTF is with the overreaction to Cherington's comment? It was essentially a non-answer.

 

Are you going to ban alcohol from the clubhouse?

 

We won't make that decision until we have a full staff convened.

 

He deferred answering the question until later. Move on.

[YAZMAN]

WTF is with the overreaction to Cherington's comment? It was essentially a non-answer.

 

Are you going to ban alcohol from the clubhouse?

 

We won't make that decision until we have a full staff convened.

 

He deferred answering the question until later. Move on.

 

He'll do just fine as the new puppet.

 

Beer - in the clubhouse, after the game.

[a700hitter]

He'll do just fine as the new puppet.

 

Beer - in the clubhouse, after the game.

This is going to be LL's team with Cherrington as the mouthpiece-- just as it was with Theo. LL gave Theo enough rope to hang himself, and he did that rather quickly. He didn't make a sound move in the last 3-4 years.

[ORS]

This is going to be LL's team with Cherrington as the mouthpiece-- just as it was with Theo. LL gave Theo enough rope to hang himself' date=' and he did that rather quickly. He didn't make a sound move in the last 3-4 years.[/quote']

Given the rate of decay for evaluating Epstein's performance here, we're only a few days away from him being the worst GM in Sox history. My point is, the last 3-4 years were no different than the rest of his tenure. He did good in the draft and trade markets, he wasted a lot of money on all of his big-ticket free-agents, he recovered some of that with some undervalued finds in the FA market. He doesn't get downgraded to "no sound moves" just because a few days have passed by.

 

The rest of your point, which is very plausible, should be a cause for alarm. As you stated, it's possible LL has been the man behind the curtain pulling the strings for these big-ticket FA's all along. Changing the mouthpiece won't change anything, so the same deficiency will exist in the Sox roster construction. I hope you are right (and wrong). Right that Epstein should be charged with the FA failings, and wrong that LL was the supreme puppet master during Epstein's tenure. Otherwise, expect more busts.

[a700hitter]

Given the rate of decay for evaluating Epstein's performance here, we're only a few days away from him being the worst GM in Sox history. My point is, the last 3-4 years were no different than the rest of his tenure. He did good in the draft and trade markets, he wasted a lot of money on all of his big-ticket free-agents, he recovered some of that with some undervalued finds in the FA market. He doesn't get downgraded to "no sound moves" just because a few days have passed by.

 

The rest of your point, which is very plausible, should be a cause for alarm. As you stated, it's possible LL has been the man behind the curtain pulling the strings for these big-ticket FA's all along. Changing the mouthpiece won't change anything, so the same deficiency will exist in the Sox roster construction. I hope you are right (and wrong). Right that Epstein should be charged with the FA failings, and wrong that LL was the supreme puppet master during Epstein's tenure. Otherwise, expect more busts.

The "no sound moves" remark was hyperbole limited to the last 3-4 years.

 

I am skeptical the Sox can really move forward by staying with an inhouse candidate.

[ORS]

The "no sound moves" remark was hyperbole limited to the last 3-4 years.

 

I am skeptical the Sox can really move forward by staying with an inhouse candidate.

If LL's role in decision making is as you describe it, I'm skeptical recovery is possible either in-house or out-of-house.

[a700hitter]

If LL's role in decision making is as you describe it' date=' I'm skeptical recovery is possible either in-house or out-of-house.[/quote']That's not very encouraging. Hopefully, that has not been LL's role or it will change going forward.

[iortiz]

WTF is with the overreaction to Cherington's comment? It was essentially a non-answer.

 

Are you going to ban alcohol from the clubhouse?

 

We won't make that decision until we have a full staff convened.

 

He deferred answering the question until later. Move on.

 

This is exactly what worries me the most. He deferred the answer. Sounds like he is leaving the door open in order to continue this country club environment.

 

At least come out and say typical cliche answers like "We were wrong and we will learn from this" like Buch and other said or something, but for God's sake, show a little bit of smartness on this.

 

As Yazman said, this Cherington sounds like the new LL's puppet. If this is the kind of leadership that is coming, I would be very concerned.

 

You won't pitch/bat today? go and do some work-out or practice your mechanics/fundamentals or go to the cage or study your next opponent or something --I wonder, where in the hell was the conditioning coaching staff at this moments, drinking and playing nintendo as well? --

 

Again, this is not about beer (1 of n issues), this is about professionalism and show respect to your teammates -- especially the rookies --, organization, fans, etc. but especially to yourself as a professional.

[iortiz]

If LL was the intellectual author of the last 3-4 years mess and Theo was only a puppet, LL should walk and assume the accountability.

 

If not (likely), I'd be skeptical too, if this Cherington takes the job.

[ORS]

This is exactly what worries me the most. He deferred the answer. Sounds like he is leaving the door open in order to continue this country club environment.

 

At least come out and say typical cliche answers like "We were wrong and we will learn from this" like Buch and other said or something, but for God's sake, show a little bit of smartness on this.

 

As Yazman said, this Cherington sounds like the new LL's puppet. If this is the kind of leadership that is coming, I would be very concerned.

 

You won't pitch/bat today? go and do some work-out or practice your mechanics/fundamentals or go to the cage or study your next opponent or something --I wonder, where in the hell was the conditioning coaching staff at this moments, drinking and playing nintendo as well? --

 

Again, this is not about beer (1 of n issues), this is about professionalism and show respect to your teammates -- especially the rookies --, organization, fans, etc. but especially to yourself as a professional.

You are missing the point. By deferring to answer, he has committed the club to nothing publicly.

 

What if it turns out that this isn't really all that big of a deal (which is what I tend to think), that the press is sensationalizing everyday, normal behavior in the league? And, what if, when the new staff convenes to decide what the policy will be, they decide to allow alcohol in the clubhouse? If he makes a cliche answer that suggests a strong change, and the press subsequently notices alcohol in the clubhouse, you don't think that would get used against them publicly? If you don't, then we aren't just losing something in the language translation, but you aren't that familiar with the Boston press.

 

A non-answer, before any policy decision has been made, is the right answer here.

[example1]

The board has taken a turn since the collapse toward demanding swift, categorical and decisive action in every area. The idea of actually evaluating what went wrong before moving forward is rejected in favor of declaring that what went wrong is "everything" and that therefore "everything" needs replacing, including policies, players, coaches, vendors, traveling secretaries, bricks, grass, flags and water coolers.

[a700hitter]

The board has taken a turn since the collapse toward demanding swift' date=' categorical and decisive action in every area. The idea of actually evaluating what went wrong before moving forward is rejected in favor of declaring that what went wrong is "everything" and that therefore "everything" needs replacing, including policies, players, coaches, vendors, traveling secretaries, bricks, grass, flags and water coolers.[/quote']Not true. The following can stay: vendors, traveling secretaries, bricks, grass, flags and water coolers.

 

You do realize that upper management and not TalkSox is making these decisions. They've fired/parted ways with the Manager, GM, Pitching Coach, and First Base Coach so far. We can only predict what will come next.

[Palodios]

The board has taken a turn since the collapse toward demanding swift' date=' categorical and decisive action in every area. The idea of actually evaluating what went wrong before moving forward is rejected in favor of declaring that what went wrong is "everything" and that therefore "everything" needs replacing, including policies, players, coaches, vendors, traveling secretaries, bricks, grass, flags and water coolers.[/quote']

 

By the sound of it, all the "optimists" from Sawxhead banned the "realists", and they all flocked here, and that's shifted the matter of opinion at Talksox.

[iortiz]

You are missing the point. By deferring to answer, he has committed the club to nothing publicly.

 

What if it turns out that this isn't really all that big of a deal (which is what I tend to think), that the press is sensationalizing everyday, normal behavior in the league? And, what if, when the new staff convenes to decide what the policy will be, they decide to allow alcohol in the clubhouse? If he makes a cliche answer that suggests a strong change, and the press subsequently notices alcohol in the clubhouse, you don't think that would get used against them publicly? If you don't, then we aren't just losing something in the language translation, but you aren't that familiar with the Boston press.

 

A non-answer, before any policy decision has been made, is the right answer here.

 

I dont see this as you are seeing when you say " By deferring to answer, he has committed the club to nothing publicly".

 

Sorry ORS, maybe this is about semantics/translation or something but when I read this question:

 

Q: Are you going to ban alcohol from the clubhouse?

 

and then the answer is:

 

A: We won't make that decision until we have a full staff convened.

 

Seems/Sounds to me that he leaves open the possibility since he said "decision" in the sentence -- allow beer in the clubhouse -- IMO you just don't allow it. You just don't consider it as a possibility at all. It is not prudent. It is not the place and moment, It is not a bar. It is wrong. But that's me.

 

IMO You take accountability and answer since you are/were part of this FO, and since this issue was already accepted by some players and agreed that it is/was a bad practice.

 

If he committed the club to nothing publicly, you answer something like "I won't declare about this topic" or something but you don't answer "We won't make that decision until we have a full staff convened"

 

Am I translating well? If not, I'm gonna fire my english teacher.

[example1]

Not true. The following can stay: vendors, traveling secretaries, bricks, grass, flags and water coolers.

 

You do realize that upper management and not TalkSox is making these decisions. They've fired/parted ways with the Manager, GM, Pitching Coach, and First Base Coach so far. We can only predict what will come next.

 

My comment was about expressed dissatisfaction with Cherington for not immediately banning beer in the clubhouse... For him waiting to figure out next steps. As if it really matters.

[iortiz]

My comment was about expressed dissatisfaction with Cherington for not immediately banning beer in the clubhouse... For him waiting to figure out next steps. As if it really matters.

 

Nobody is expecting an immediate action. It is very simple actually.

 

Why not say something encouraging and accept just the fact that other players have already accepted --drinking in the clubhouse -- and have even agreed that was/is wrong practice. I just don't see a FBI case here if he coincides saying that this was wrong, we learn about this blahblah....

[a700hitter]

Nobody is expecting an immediately action. It is very simple actually.

 

Why not say something encouraging and accept just the fact that other players have already accepted --drinking in the clubhouse -- and have even agreed that was/is wrong practice. I just don't see a FBI case here if he coincides saying that this was wrong, we learn about this blahblah....

In english we would say that it was a weasel-worded answer. There is a time and a place for such answers. This topic did not call for such an answer. It made him look weak and indecisive. It's not the first impression that he should be giving. Hopefully, they don't ask him something tough like whether they will have single or double ply paper in the bathrooms. He might have to kick that up to the puppet master LL. Lol!

[iortiz]

In english we would call would say that it was a weasel-worded answer. There is a time and a place for such answers. This topic did not call for such an answer. It made him look weak and indecisive. It's not the first impression that he should be giving. Hopefully' date=' they don't ask him something tough like whether they will have single or double ply paper in the bathrooms. He might have to kick that up to the puppet master LL. Lol![/quote']

 

you are a very funny guy my friend.

 

Agree!