2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[RedSoxNC84]

Red Sox, Vicente Padilla Moving Toward Deal

By Nick Collias [January 12, 2012 at 3:22pm CST]

3:22pm: The Red Sox and Padilla are moving toward a deal, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com tweets.

 

12:28pm: Two days after signing Aaron Cook, the Red Sox are scouting another low-risk righty looking to rebound from injury. Vicente Padilla took leave of his native Nicaraguan winter league yesterday in order to fly to Boston, where he will be checked over today by team doctors, reports Francisco Jarqu?n Soto at the Nicaraguan paper El Nuevo Diario.

 

Padilla made only nine appearances for the Dodgers in 2011, all in relief, before neck problems ended his season in June. He also briefly took over the closer's job from Jonathan Broxton, though in recent years the 34-year-old has been a swingman and spot starter (he thrived in the role as recently as 2010). He has reportedly been hitting 95-96 mph with his fastball this winter in Nicaragua, and has said he wants to fight for a rotation spot. Seeing as the Red Sox have no shortage of hard-throwing righties in their revamped pen, Padilla could get his wish if his health permits.

 

I know I posted this already, but it kind of got buried.. Anyhow, more dumpster diving, or perhaps a legitimate depth signing?

[a700hitter]

I'm not necessarily optimistic about our pitching this year, but I will give a simplistic answer on why there's no reason to think it will be worse.

 

We have lost one relief pitcher who had a good year last year. We have added two relief pitchers who had good years last year.

 

Any other pitchers we've lost (Lackey, Dice etc.) had bad years last year.

 

Am I missing something as far as what we've lost from last year?

Yeah you are missing something. We lost our 3 best relievers from the 2011 pen-- Papelbon, Bard and Aceves. Bard and Aceves are going to new roles in the starting rotation with no track record for success. Two relievers have been obtained to replace those 3, and they are not as good as any of the 3 being replaced.

[Spitball]

Ah, geeze! With the rumors of Red Sox pitchers drinking in the clubhouse, I bet ol' Vincente begged Boston management for a shot at making the club.

 

Back in 2002, Peter Gammons reported that a pitcher got too drunk in the clubhouse during the All-Star game to pitch. Rumors circulated that the pitcher was Padilla. When he was abruptly released by the Rangers a few years ago, it was rumored to be because of his drinking.

 

What was it Abraham Lincoln supposedly said when questioned about U.S. Grant's drinking? "Find out what he drinks and buy a case for each of our generals." Maybe the plan plan with Padilla is something along those lines.

[a700hitter]

Vicente Padilla took leave of his native Nicaraguan winter league yesterday in order to fly to Boston, where he will be checked over today by team doctors, reports Francisco Jarqu?n Soto at the Nicaraguan paper El Nuevo Diario.

A psychiatric evaluation should be ordered.

[User Name]

Ah, geeze! With the rumors of Red Sox pitchers drinking in the clubhouse, I bet ol' Vincente begged Boston management for a shot at making the club.

 

Back in 2002, Peter Gammons reported that a pitcher got too drunk in the clubhouse during the All-Star game to pitch. Rumors circulated that the pitcher was Padilla. When he was abruptly released by the Rangers a few years ago, it was rumored to be because of his drinking.

 

What was it Abraham Lincoln supposedly said when questioned about U.S. Grant's drinking? "Find out what he drinks and buy a case for each of our generals." Maybe the plan plan with Padilla is something along those lines.

 

This is the funniest thing i have read in this site. Aces.

[RedSoxNC84]

A psychiatric evaluation should be ordered.

 

In my opinion, with signings like this, Cook, and Silva, you'd think the Sox would have went ahead and signed someone like Maholm, Saunders, or even Zumaya.

[Bellhorn04]

Yeah you are missing something. We lost our 3 best relievers from the 2011 pen-- Papelbon' date=' Bard and Aceves. Bard and Aceves are going to new roles in the starting rotation with no track record for success. Two relievers have been obtained to replace those 3, and they are not as good as any of the 3 being replaced.[/quote']

 

Bard and Aceves aren't necessarily going to the rotation though. Either way they aren't lost.

[RedSoxNC84]

Bard and Aceves aren't necessarily going to the rotation though.

 

Who's going to beat them in the competition during spring training?

[iortiz]

Who's going to beat them in the competition during spring training?

 

They are likely the #4 and #5 if nobody arrives.

[RedSoxNC84]

They are likely the #4 and #5 if nobody arrives.

 

That's pretty much my point, if they are showing up to ST ready to compete for a starters role, and then they are up against guys like Cook, Silva, Padilla, Germano, Haegar, etc. Who do you think would win a spot in the rotation?

 

I believe that one of them should be conserved for the bullpen, not both of them competiting for a starters role. Hopefully one of them will show promise and the other will be placed back in the pen. At this point I'd much rather see Bard assume the starter's role and Aceves keep his role as swingman, but you never know what could happen.

[iortiz]

That's pretty much my point, if they are showing up to ST ready to compete for a starters role, and then they are up against guys like Cook, Silva, Padilla, Germano, Haegar, etc. Who do you think would win a spot in the rotation?

 

I believe that one of them should be conserved for the bullpen, not both of them competiting for a starters role. Hopefully one of them will show promise and the other will be placed back in the pen. At this point I'd much rather see Bard assume the starter's role and Aceves keep his role as swingman, but you never know what could happen.

 

I agree. They Should keep Aceves in the pen. What about Doubrount as #5?

[a700hitter]

Bard and Aceves aren't necessarily going to the rotation though. Either way they aren't lost.

The plan is for them to compete for rotation spots and they are probably favored to win those spots. If they are in the rotation, they need to be replaced in the bullpen.

[a700hitter]

I agree. They Should keep Aceves in the pen. What about Doubrount as #5?

I could see that as a possibility, but I wouldn't be happy with it. I was counting on Doubront as a depth option. If he is in the rotation, the other pigs like Silva and Cook are depth options?

[Elktonnick]

That's a lie.

 

 

 

I made a mistake because the projection systems are similar. That's the reason why they are both listed on Fangraphs, and in fact, appear in your post.

 

This is also not the point of the argument, the point being that you try to pass your opinion off as fact.

 

You haven't countered that argument and instead resort to weaksauce arguments like this one. Congratulations, you have proven nothing.

 

Prove why your opinions are "fact". I'm waiting.

 

 

 

Says the guy who intentionally misinterpreted Tango's position on sacrificing and Stolen Bases. Either that or you pulled his name off the internet. What a joke.

 

I have his book. Again you are the one who said he wasn't a sabermetrician. I first cited from his book years ago. You only changed from Bard after I posted the data that proved you misrepresented what James actually projected. Once again you deceive and misrepresent. When caught in an outright lie you change stories. You have no integrity. I stand by my statements you are intellectually dishonest. As far as Tango I accurately represent his views at least I knew who he was.

 

I reviewed the post from November and you clearly disputed Tango credentials as a sabermetrician. You only said you knew who he was until after I posted his resume. (Just as you did with James's projections) Also as part of that exchange which Ortiz joined in you said you did your own research in essence substituting your statistical judgment for published professional sabermetricians. If that is true, then it is perfectly acceptable to question your qualifiications regarding mathematics and statistics. I assume when and if you repsond you will enlighten us on your professional qualifications in this field.

[SoxSport]

Padilla is just one more handful of mud to throw against the wall. I would guess it's another one of those minor league contracts which doesn't cost anything unless the mud sticks.

Padilla has a way of reviving his career every so often by pitching well in short stretches.

[iortiz]

I could see that as a possibility' date=' but I wouldn't be happy with it. I was counting on Doubront as a depth option. If he is in the rotation, the other pigs like Silva and Cook are depth options?[/quote']

 

I don't like it either but again, who is going to take Aceves' role in the pen? He is a great inning eater, mostly if Bard gives you only 5-6 IP/game. Complicated.

[FredLynn]

I'm not necessarily optimistic about our pitching this year, but I will give a simplistic answer on why there's no reason to think it will be worse.

 

We have lost one relief pitcher who had a good year last year. We have added two relief pitchers who had good years last year.

 

Any other pitchers we've lost (Lackey, Dice etc.) had bad years last year.

 

Am I missing something as far as what we've lost from last year?

 

Yes. Dan Wheeler was very effective after his return from the DL on May 25. His ERA after that was 2.54 and his OPSa was .567. I don't know who he signed with, but he is another costly loss from the pen.

[RedSoxNC84]

I don't like it either but again' date=' who is going to take Aceves' role in the pen? He is a great inning eater, mostly if Bard gives you only 5-6 IP/game. Complicated.[/quote']

 

I think that if Aceves makes the rotation, the swingman role will be taken up by one of the depth options, be it someone like Doubrant, Tazawa, or maybe one of the veteran options. I think that is something else that will be in competition during ST, not just the rotation roles, but all of the bullpen roles as well.

[FredLynn]

It is not a rhetoric. He has made pretty good things in TB. Facts don't lie. I'm not sure why you want take away his credit.

 

Sure you are Ortiz. Its because UserName cannot accept the facts here either. Friedman has done a GREAT job in Tampa, much better than the job Epstein did here.

[RedSoxNC84]

Yes. Dan Wheeler was very effective after his return from the DL on May 25. His ERA after that was 2.54 and his OPSa was .567. I don't know who he signed with' date=' but he is another costly loss from the pen.[/quote']

 

To my knowledge he has not signed with anyone yet, and Ben had said before they wanted to keep the door open with Wheeler, even after he declined arbitration.

[Bellhorn04]

Sure you are Ortiz. Its because UserName cannot accept the facts here either. Friedman has done a GREAT job in Tampa' date=' much better than the job Epstein did here.[/quote']

 

You can't directly compare the jobs they did though. Which of Friedman's trades and free agent signings do you think were his best ones?

[RedSoxNC84]

You can't directly compare the jobs they did though. Which of Friedman's trades and free agent signings do you think were his best ones?

 

I believe it was in reference to Friedman's drafting ability as opposed to Epstein's over the last few years.

[FredLynn]

I could see that as a possibility' date=' but I wouldn't be happy with it. I was counting on Doubront as a depth option. If he is in the rotation, the other pigs like Silva and Cook are depth options?[/quote']

 

Unless you think Doubront is functional as a RP, he cannot be a depth option. He is out of options. He will not go back to Pawtucket. Neither will Bowden, Atchison, or Morales.

[FredLynn]

You can't directly compare the jobs they did though. Which of Friedman's trades and free agent signings do you think were his best ones?

 

I did not intend to compare their jobs directly, but I think that Friedman is doing his job much better than Epstein did his job here. They are similar jobs, but not identical.

[FredLynn]

To my knowledge he has not signed with anyone yet' date=' and Ben had said before they wanted to keep the door open with Wheeler, even after he declined arbitration.[/quote']

 

He is someone I would like to see on the team...right after a good #4 SP.

[iortiz]

He is someone I would like to see on the team...right after a good #4 SP.

 

You mean as a SP?

[FredLynn]

You mean as a SP?

 

Wheeler is a pen guy. We need, in addition, a decent #4 SP like Kuroda or Jackson or possibly Oswalt. Those guys (#4s) are not dominant pitchers, usually. But they should be able to keep their team in the game.

[Bellhorn04]

According to MLBTR Wheeler is still a free agent.

[FredLynn]

According to MLBTR Wheeler is still a free agent.

 

Guess you forgot to include him on your list of significant pitcher losses. He was very effective for most of the year, except when he was injured.

So we lost two guys who were good, Paps and Wheeler, and gained two who might be good. Net is zero. We have hired no significant SP. If we move Bard and/or Aceves to SP, we lose them from the pen. Net is zero, again. So we have not improved our pitching, which finished ninth in the AL two years running, at all. What do you realistically expect from them? Our staff is simply not that talented.

[RedSoxNC84]

According to MLBTR Wheeler is still a free agent.

 

 

What I don't understand is why the Sox would decline their option on him, and then offer him arbitration.. I don't know if he has any other offers, but I would really like to see him with the Sox again this season.