2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

User' date=' you and MVP may not agree with this but if the Red Sox had just given the two of them an unconditional release from the Red Sox last fall we wouldn't be talking about this now. Being a free agent means nothing if there is a chance that these two are still going to be resigned. With them released they could have tried to hook on with another team and we would have had the problem solved, but as some of us predicted they would not get an offer from another team, neither one would and that has happened and now they are invited to ST. What if they do show up--which I think they will. You will have Varitek lobbying the pitchers for support and Wakefield taking time and innings away from pitchers begging for a chance to show what they can do. We saw what Wakefield can do last summer and if you or others forgot, I didn't. He was a total abomination, could pitch, couldn't field, couldn't move. Valentine must make it clear that he does not these guys there.[/quote']

 

Valentine will choose who makes the team out of ST. Valentine said he doesn't see either Varitek or Wake making the team. IF they show up./discussion.

[User Name]

My friend' date=' you warned everyone of this months ago and were called on it. I remember because I was covering your back then as well. Now that you have been proven spot-on right, some of the posters who urged patience have been proven to be miserably wrong and are resentful to for your accuracy from the word go. I've seen this before somewhere else. I get tired of this Oswalt soap opera but if the Red Sox sweetened the pot to around nine of ten mil we might get the guy. Lucchino can play Pinnochio all he wants because I hold the guy in ill repute and don't believe a word he says about no limit on spending, but I would think many of you on this board should see through this mirage as well. That some of you still believe the tripe being dispensed by the FO only tells me, 700 and others that you will hold blind faith in the FO and be willing to go down with the ship.[/quote']

 

Fred, a lot of this is nonsense. They can go into the season with the roster as is and still make improvements during the season as they have many times past. Those who urge patience are right to do so until proven contrary. Blind faith and patience are different things, and you really really really need to learn the latter.

[mvp 78]

Fred, can you explain the difference between unconditional release and just letting someone go to FA? Honest question. What's the point in "releasing" someone if they're going to be a FA anyway?

[seabeachfred]

Fred' date=' can you explain the difference between unconditional release and just letting someone go to FA? Honest question. What's the point in "releasing" someone if they're going to be a FA anyway?[/quote']

 

On the face of it MVP your point is well taken....why release them when they're going to be free agents? My answer is if it was made absolutely clear that they were now free agents without any connection to the Red Sox we wouldn't be facing the prospect of these two showing up in Fort Myers in ten or 12 days. Then, knowing the Red Sox were not going to offer them anything, not a contract, not a tryout, not an invitation, then they could go look for some other team to sign on with and we'd be done with them. Until Valentine tells them to hit the road, they are still part of the Red Sox. Cherington and Lucchino have said exactly that, that he wants to always consider themselves part of the Red Sox. To two players determind to continue their careers they could read that as an open invitation to show up........again, if they don't show up you can have a free swing at me and I will admit that I was very wrong. However, I still think they are going to go to Fort Myers on the unsaid and unwritten hint that if they go a place will be found for them---and I wouldn't like that at all. Neither would most of the press and media from what I've heard and read.

[seabeachfred]

Fred' date=' a lot of this is nonsense. They can go into the season with the roster as is and still make improvements during the season as they have many times past. Those who urge patience are right to do so until proven contrary. Blind faith and patience are different things, and you really really really need to learn the latter.[/quote']

 

Well admittedly User I haven't had much patience since Day 1 but you can bet 700, iortiz, Sox Sport, Red Sox 84 and a whole bunch of others have shown remarkable patience and we still seem to be running in place. Yes, of course, we could make improvements during the season, but by the time trades start developing around the middle of July we could be so far out of it that whatever help was forthcoming would be too late to step the tide.

 

Like you I want this thing to work out and you are certainly aware I have NOT written the season off by any means, but thinking like a coach that I was for over 30 y ears and not the psychotic fan many of you make me out to me, I still see some needed room for improvement. To me I'd like to enter the season armed to bear than have to wait until the summer and hope we're still in the money.

[User Name]

Well admittedly User I haven't had much patience since Day 1 but you can bet 700' date=' iortiz, Sox Sport, Red Sox 84 and a whole bunch of others have shown remarkable patience and we still seem to be running in place. Yes, of course, we could make improvements during the season, but by the time trades start developing around the middle of July we could be so far out of it that whatever help was forthcoming would be too late to step the tide.[/quote']

 

700 and iortiz have shown patience? They've been complaining since day 1. I just don't see the point in repeating the same s*** over and over again like it'll change something.

 

Everyone knows they need another starter. Some think it's needed, but not a game-breaker, some think the timeframe where they get him is not that important, some think it is of the essence. But we all know the foot the Sox are standing on.

 

When someone comes up and tells me that i have no original thought process because i'm tired of hearing the same s*** over and over again and exploring every and all plausible scenario, i'll get pissed off and with good reason. Things will play themselves out one way or the other. Complaining over and over again about it changes nothing and simply warps the truth about what's actually happening.

 

Like you I want this thing to work out and you are certainly aware I have NOT written the season off by any means, but thinking like a coach that I was for over 30 y ears and not the psychotic fan many of you make me out to me, I still see some needed room for improvement. To me I'd like to enter the season armed to bear than have to wait until the summer and hope we're still in the money.

 

You're the one who sells yourself that way. We all know there's room for improvement. What i don't understand is how you coaching a long time makes you superior to everyone else here at figuring this sort of thing out.

 

In the end, all we can do is wait and see what happens. We can share ideas, and thoughts, but insulting everyone who has a positive outlook for 2012 is a load of s*** and you know it.

[Muggah]

You know Muggah, what's strange is that some of the people here actually agree with a lot of what we say, reluctantly sometimes, but they do. They just don't like the way we say it. We're too "brutal" according to one poster. Well perhaps we are a little more verbose than the garden variety poster around here but I can't see how anyone can be satisfied with the way things have gone this winter. After last year's miserable choke job we should have a better team heading down to Fort Myers than we did last season---and we don't.

 

What we do have is a better medical staff with that butcher Gill gone, a much much much better field manager than the bungler we finally got rid of, and hopefully a lot better luck in the health department. With 90% of things going right we might actually make a positive move, especially if Bard can measure up as a starter (questionable), Youk and Crawford make good comebacks (expected) and the rotation goes deeper in games. Since BV is not a pitch count moron like you remember who, that may be possible.

 

There are a lot of good posters here, Fred--very knowledgable and unafraid to face reality from what I see so far. But that doesn't mean there's not the usual contingency of pollyannas and apologists that generally resides in any Sox forum. And I'm sorry if some people find our approach a little 'brutal' as you put it, but you have to remember that some of us have seen this coming for years while the rumpswabs and the bonnetheads sat back and gave this ownership group free pass after free pass after free pass.

 

It's my opinion that these clueless 'feel goods' and "Sweet Caroline" people share as much responsibility for the demise of the team as that incompetent dope Blunder and space shot Henry do. Their adolescent hero worship of these has-beens and sacred cows speaks volumes about their understanding of the game, IMO, and despite the fact that many of them seem to be finally waking up to the gravity of the situation now, they're at least three years too late. The damage has been done and their enabling has been a factor.

 

We're approaching the time when even us realists tend to want to suspend our clear thinking and follow our hearts down a path that has us somehow winding up in the tall cotton at the end of the year. And this season is no different. Of course I want to believe we've got a shot this year at a playoff slot, but I've got to be realistic. The way I see it is it took five years of a 'solo' Blunder's incompetence and eight years of Francona's coddling to establish this 'culture of losing' that finally manifested itself in that humiliating collapse. That's a long time, and that's a culture that's grown some very deep roots. To think Valentine is going to successfully change that culture 180 degrees over one season is shortsighted IMO. And to be fair to the players, too--they're only human, and as is with any kind of dramatic 'change,' it takes time. Some will adapt faster than others, but as I'm sure we're about to see---others will either remain problems, or become bigger ones. From my POV, Valentine's job this year is to a) introduce change and a new system, salvage the salvageable, and c) weed out any remaining bad actors. If BV can accomplish those three goals he'll have set us up nicely and put us on a path to get back in the playoff hunt before the decade's half over.

[User Name]

^Case in point. Absolutely insufferable.

[Muggah]

Thats not the way it was worded. If thats not what he meant (muggah) or what you mean, then choose your words better. When I call someone an idiot, its deserved.....the original post was deserving.

 

 

Yeah, well I hate to break it to you, but I piss people off over here at times too because I am also critical of the Redsox......do you know why I do not post about it 50 times a day? Because nobody wants to hear it. Everyone around here knows what I think, there is no reason the say the same negative s*** over and over every single day.....and again, its not personal.....its the internet. You want to talk about thin skinned? You take the internet personal, thats thin skinned my friend.

 

 

If its not that important, then why do you keep responding? If everyone around here is "thin skinned" then why do you take the remark "idiot" about your boy from sawxheads so personal? Why do you take this forum personal?

 

 

Right, because you are the ones thinking that you are being attacked......hows that "thick skin" working out for you? Everything around here is personal to you guys. There is nothing wrong with an honest opinion....I actually share much of the same opinions some of you guys have. The problem is, everyone is sick of hearing the same s*** over and over.

 

On the actual topic, I hope to hell that Oswalt is coming to Boston......otherwise, they have some questions to answer about why their starting SS was traded. They said he was traded to make room for a pitcher.......so I hope that happens.

 

Haahahaha...sorry to break the bad news to you Sweet Chins, but you fell for it hook, line and sinker. The only reason I threw up that 'thin skinned' comment was to see if you'd take the bait and go off on some self-aggrandizing tangent. Sucker. Truth is, and I'm sure my colleagues from the other forums will attest to, my skin is as thick as anyone's when it comes to those kinds of things. To be frank, I couldn't care less. But i will point out that it's got to be one hell of a massive ego you've got there---telling people when and how often to post their opinions. Good luck with that.

[iortiz]

Well admittedly User I haven't had much patience since Day 1 but you can bet 700, iortiz, Sox Sport, Red Sox 84 and a whole bunch of others have shown remarkable patience and we still seem to be running in place. Yes, of course, we could make improvements during the season, but by the time trades start developing around the middle of July we could be so far out of it that whatever help was forthcoming would be too late to step the tide.

 

Like you I want this thing to work out and you are certainly aware I have NOT written the season off by any means, but thinking like a coach that I was for over 30 y ears and not the psychotic fan many of you make me out to me, I still see some needed room for improvement. To me I'd like to enter the season armed to bear than have to wait until the summer and hope we're still in the money.

 

Fred, say whatever you want and the number of times you want. Some will like your style, some will not. You are a very nice guy to me and a very knowlageble poster. Some of us like your style, some not... Fred, The most important thing is... have fun.

[Muggah]

700 and iortiz have shown patience? They've been complaining since day 1. I just don't see the point in repeating the same s*** over and over again like it'll change something.

 

Everyone knows they need another starter. Some think it's needed, but not a game-breaker, some think the timeframe where they get him is not that important, some think it is of the essence. But we all know the foot the Sox are standing on.

 

When someone comes up and tells me that i have no original thought process because i'm tired of hearing the same s*** over and over again and exploring every and all plausible scenario, i'll get pissed off and with good reason. Things will play themselves out one way or the other. Complaining over and over again about it changes nothing and simply warps the truth about what's actually happening.

 

 

 

You're the one who sells yourself that way. We all know there's room for improvement. What i don't understand is how you coaching a long time makes you superior to everyone else here at figuring this sort of thing out.

 

In the end, all we can do is wait and see what happens. We can share ideas, and thoughts, but insulting everyone who has a positive outlook for 2012 is a load of s*** and you know it.

 

"I just don't see the point in repeating the same s*** over and over again like it'll change something."

 

Yup. So naturally you put up another post saying the exact same thing.

[User Name]

"I just don't see the point in repeating the same s*** over and over again like it'll change something."

 

Yup. So naturally you put up another post saying the exact same thing.

 

So not only are you insufferable, apparently you can't comprehend what you read either. Good job.

[mvp 78]

Who has the time to post on multiple Sox boards? Are you people shut-ins?

[User Name]

Fred' date=' say whatever you want and the number of times you want. Some will like your style, some will not. You are a very nice guy to me and a very knowlageble poster. Some of us like your style, some not... Fred, The most important thing is... have fun. [/quote']

 

So it's okay to insult other posters, as long as they don't share your opinions. Excellent logic.

[iortiz]

So it's okay to insult other posters' date=' as long as they don't share your opinions. Excellent logic.[/quote']

 

I'm against that. I meant talk about baseball and its characters (players,umps, managers, GM, etc.). I don't care whether he puts nicknames or not. I'm not sure why people take this thing so personal. As long as we respect each other everything is ok to me.

 

I have not read all Fred's posts but IMO and from what I read he doesn't attack/insult other posters. He is a nice poster.

[Muggah]

So not only are you insufferable' date=' apparently you can't comprehend what you read either. Good job.[/quote']

 

What's insufferable is constantly reading someone referring to themselves as a 'straight shooter' and a hard guy to people they not only don't know, but who couldn't care less in the first place. That's insufferable.

 

I'm sensing a lot of rumpswab in you so far. Forgive me if I'm wrong. And I apologize, too, if it bothers you that your 'insufferable' 'straight shooter' bit doesn't impress me in the least.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox signed right-hander Sean White to a minor league deal, according to Matt Eddy of Baseball America. White, 30, has 105 career major league games with the Mariners to his credit and has a 4.16 ERA with 4.0 K/9 and 3.4 BB/9. White spent 2011 with the Rockies' Triple-A affiliate.

[FredLynn]

This guy is wrong; but Fred, Muggah, and me are never wrong:

 

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m535/STGustman/DosEquisApocalypseMeme.png

[seabeachfred]

Who has the time to post on multiple Sox boards? Are you people shut-ins?

 

I'm 71 MVP. Remember? I will have been retired for ten years this coming June. Besides playing golf once a week, working out in the gym six, and working in my local Republican headquarters I do have some extra time and I really enjoy doing this. But you will get a short reprieve. I'm taking Linda to the movies shortly.

[seabeachfred]

I'm against that. I meant talk about baseball and its characters (players,umps, managers, GM, etc.). I don't care whether he puts nicknames or not. I'm not sure why people take this thing so personal. As long as we respect each other everything is ok to me.

 

I have not read all Fred's posts but IMO and from what I read he doesn't attack/insult other posters. He is a nice poster.

 

You've become a good friend iortiz and thanks for watching my back. User admits he likes to bust balls so I am used to it. I actually like the guy. You and I will have to someday take in a Red Sox series. You're my kind of people.

[iortiz]

You've become a good friend iortiz and thanks for watching my back. User admits he likes to bust balls so I am used to it. I actually like the guy. You and I will have to someday take in a Red Sox series. You're my kind of people.

 

Thanks Fred.

 

BTW Pumpsie... I like Dos X :thumbsup:

[Palodios]

I can't take credit for it: I think Palodios came up with it first.

 

I did mention the idea before, sure. The problem is, Bard wants to start, so they're going to give him the shot. That being said, if Oswalt is the #4 pitcher, that would mean that Bard would have to earn it... and watching him dominate as a starter would be pretty neat too.

[Palodios]

The Red Sox signed right-hander Sean White to a minor league deal' date=' according to Matt Eddy of Baseball America. White, 30, has 105 career major league games with the Mariners to his credit and has a 4.16 ERA with 4.0 K/9 and 3.4 BB/9. White spent 2011 with the Rockies' Triple-A affiliate.[/quote']

 

Sean White's best year was in Colorado in 2009. At the Winter X-games, he won gold in the Snowboard Superpipe.... err, I mean posted a 2.80 ERA. Complete longshot, but since we're going the crapshoot route-- if a guy has a good year once, he can have one again.

[FredLynn]

Thanks Fred.

 

BTW Pumpsie... I like Dos X :thumbsup:

 

Here you go. Taking a Photoshop class and YOU are the guinea pig:

 

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww58/barrydkusumah/revised_dos_equis_man.jpg

[FredLynn]

I did mention the idea before' date=' sure. The problem is, Bard wants to start, so they're going to give him the shot. That being said, if Oswalt is the #4 pitcher, that would mean that Bard would have to earn it... and watching him dominate as a starter would be pretty neat too.[/quote']

 

What Bard wants is secondary to what the team needs. If we get Oswalt then I say Bard has to be dominant as a SP in ST to get the nod; otherwise, its the top ranked dreg that gets the job and Bard goes back to the pen with Aceves. The dreg would just be our #5. All he has to do is pitch in the 4.8 ERA range; thats what #5s do. I could buy that if our bullpen had Bard, Aceves, Melancon, and Bailey and three others.

[Palodios]

What Bard wants is secondary to what the team needs. If we get Oswalt then I say Bard has to be dominant as a SP in ST to get the nod; otherwise' date=' its the top ranked dreg that gets the job and Bard goes back to the pen with Aceves. The dreg would just be our #5. All he has to do is pitch in the 4.8 ERA range; thats what #5s do. I could buy that if our bullpen had Bard, Aceves, Melancon, and Bailey and three others.[/quote']

 

When you have a young player like Bard that you probably want to lock up long term, it makes sense to be true to your word about his opportunity to start.

[iortiz]

Here you go. Taking a Photoshop class and YOU are the guinea pig:

 

http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww58/barrydkusumah/revised_dos_equis_man.jpg

 

[SCM33]

Haahahaha...sorry to break the bad news to you Sweet Chins' date=' but you fell for it hook, line and sinker. The only reason I threw up that 'thin skinned' comment was to see if you'd take the bait and go off on some self-aggrandizing tangent. Sucker. Truth is, and I'm sure my colleagues from the other forums will attest to, my skin is as thick as anyone's when it comes to those kinds of things. To be frank, I couldn't care less. But i will point out that it's got to be one hell of a massive ego you've got there---telling people when and how often to post their opinions. Good luck with that.[/quote']

 

I "fell for it"? Take the bait? A Self-aggrandizing tangent? Sucker?

 

You need a life outside of posting on multiple Redsox forums and surfing the internet. You have nothing better to do than "baiting someone" then claiming it was part of some master plan? I ripped your comments apart, and thats your response? You sound like a petty antagonistic clown, and you sound like you are about 12 years old.

 

Just shut up. You are an idiot....oh wait, I shouldn't say that....the internet is your life, you consider this PERSONAL. Idiot.

 

And dont call me "Sweet Chins", I f***ing hate all those stupid ass nicknames you and the rest of your crew like to give everyone....

[Palodios]

It is the day before the Ortiz arbitration hearing, and Roy Oswalt has yet to sign with any team. If the Red Sox win it, and save themselves the 4 million, what are the odds they increase their offer? They are continuing to sign scrap heap pitchers....

[Elktonnick]

It is the day before the Ortiz arbitration hearing' date=' and Roy Oswalt has yet to sign with any team. If the Red Sox win it, and save themselves the 4 million, what are the odds they increase their offer? They are continuing to sign scrap heap pitchers....[/quote']

 

One gets the feeling that money isn't the main issue with Oswalt and the Red Sox. That being said, I think another couple of million in the pot certainly wouldn't hurt.