2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

Fact: Bard pitches 150 innings in the rotation and another 20-25 out of the pen. I really saw him as our 3rd most effective reliever last year behind Aceves and Papelbum.

Fact: We had Lackey,Wakefield,Miller and Weiland as our 3-4-5, that probaly had something to due with us finishing 9th in era.

Fact: We have improved our rotation with Buchholtz, Bard, Doubrant. Melancon and Baily were both excellent acquistions and will be comparable to Bard and Papelbum.

Fact: We did finish 3rd last year, but wasn't that because of the backend of starting rotation?

Fact: Gonzales was injured after the all star break, therefore had no power in the 2nd half

Fact: Youkilis injury effected the whole lineup, no power from rt side

Fact: Crawford will show significant improvement this year

Fact: Shoppach can actually throw to 2nd base.

 

Of course you can bring up this person or that person will get injured. Every team needs a little luck with injuries.

 

Hooray for positive attitudes!

[Bellhorn04]

How many games did his "bad year" cost the team? I say at least five....and that he had a bad year every year.

 

OK well my point is, you're comparing the 2012 team to the 2011 team strictly on a player personnel basis, and ignoring the potential improvement from the changeover in managerial and coaching staff. You lauded the Valentine hiring and yet you seem to think he will be impotent in actually improving the team's work ethic, chemistry etc. which was obviously a huge factor in the demise last year.

[a700hitter]

You're not a Valentine fan?

Am I a Valentine fan? No, I am not. I think he is a different type of manager than Francona and certainly a better game tactician. Others think he will cause problems in the clubhouse. Eventually, that is a good possibility, but it will probably take 2 or 3 years. Would Valentine have made the difference last year? Very possibly he might have made the difference, but 2012 is not last season. I don't think our 2012 team as presently constructed is as good as the 2011 team. Any improvement with Valentine and the coaching staff may not be enough in 2012.

[FredLynn]

Fact: Bard pitches 150 innings in the rotation and another 20-25 out of the pen. I really saw him as our 3rd most effective reliever last year behind Aceves and Papelbum.

Fact: We had Lackey,Wakefield,Miller and Weiland as our 3-4-5, that probaly had something to due with us finishing 9th in era.

Fact: We have improved our rotation with Buchholtz, Bard, Doubrant. Melancon and Baily were both excellent acquistions and will be comparable to Bard and Papelbum.

Fact: We did finish 3rd last year, but wasn't that because of the backend of starting rotation?

Fact: Gonzales was injured after the all star break, therefore had no power in the 2nd half

Fact: Youkilis injury effected the whole lineup, no power from rt side

Fact: Crawford will show significant improvement this year

Fact: Shoppach can actually throw to 2nd base.

 

Of course you can bring up this person or that person will get injured. Every team needs a little luck with injuries.

 

Fact: Crawford will show significant improvement this year

 

This is a "fact"? Its an opinion. Its my opinion too, but its certainly not fact.

Its always been about the pitching, and when you have Doubront, Miller, Bowden, Germano, Silva, and Cook as options its hard to make the case that we have improved our pitching. Injuries will happen. To cite injuries as an excuse is a copout. WHEN (not if) some of our SP go down, we have dregs to replace them.

[User Name]

Because obviously the only thing that can happen is the worst-case scenario.

[FredLynn]

OK well my point is' date=' you're comparing the 2012 team to the 2011 team strictly on a player personnel basis, and ignoring the potential improvement from the changeover in managerial and coaching staff. You lauded the Valentine hiring and yet you seem to think he will be impotent in actually improving the team's work ethic, chemistry etc. which was obviously a huge factor in the demise last year.[/quote']

 

I do think that Valentine will improve the club. I also think that Beckett will not have another good year this year, and that one of the top three SP will go down and miss time. The guys we have to fill in for them really suck. In fact, our #4 SP doesn't exist yet. And our #5 SP won't throw more than about 140 innings, max.

[Bellhorn04]

Am I a Valentine fan? No' date=' I am not. I think he is a different type of manager than Francona and certainly a better game tactician. Others think he will cause problems in the clubhouse. Eventually, that is a good possibility, but it will probably take 2 or 3 years. Would Valentine have made the difference last year? Very possibly he might have made the difference, but 2012 is not last season. I don't think our 2012 team as presently constructed is as good as the 2011 team. Any improvement with Valentine and the coaching staff may not be enough in 2012.[/quote']

 

Why don't you think the 2012 team is as good as the 2011 team? Isn't Papelbon the only significant subtraction?

[a700hitter]

Why don't you think the 2012 team is as good as the 2011 team? Isn't Papelbon the only significant subtraction?

Bard, Papelbon, and Aceves leaving the bullpen is a huge change, and I am not convinced that Cherington has filled that huge hole. I am also very concerned that our starting pitching is thin and not in any way improved over last season.

[win red sox]

Fact: Crawford will show significant improvement this year

 

This is a "fact"? Its an opinion. Its my opinion too, but its certainly not fact.

Its always been about the pitching, and when you have Doubront, Miller, Bowden, Germano, Silva, and Cook as options its hard to make the case that we have improved our pitching. Injuries will happen. To cite injuries as an excuse is a copout. WHEN (not if) some of our SP go down, we have dregs to replace them.

 

Is it unreleastic to get 175-200 innings out of our big 3, is it unrealistic that Bard can log 150 innings at 3.75 era. Obviously the big 3 will miss of couple of starts and thats when you will see one of Miller,Silva,Cook or Germano but that's what they were signed for, emergency starts. To say that were going to lose one of the big 3 for a half season or more is being nothing more than pessimistic. One thing you have to agree on is our back end of rotation will be significantly better next year.

[a700hitter]

Is it unreleastic to get 175-200 innings out of our big 3' date=' is it unrealistic that Bard can log 150 innings at 3.75 era. Obviously the big 3 will miss of couple of starts and thats when you will see one of Miller,Silva,Cook or Germano but that's what they were signed for, emergency starts. To say that were going to lose one of the big 3 for a half season or more is being nothing more than pessimistic. One thing you have to agree on is our back end of rotation will be significantly better next year.[/quote']Our starters showed an inability to go deep into games last season. I don't expect that situation will improve by putting 2 relievers in the rotation. The weakened bullpen will be strained to the breaking point before the All Star Break causing the rotation to deteriorate.

[example1]

I'm not going to respond to all the other s*** that has been thrown on this board for the past few hours, but I will continue with my discussion with iortiz.

 

Who is saying the opposite E1? On the other hand, Rebuilding a team no necessary takes a lot of time.

 

As I said, you can rebuild a team with the moneyball approach. You can rebuild a team with the moneyball approach at some positions. Is Theo applying this approach this offseason in order to star this "rebuilding"? This questions is a matter of opinion, isn't it?

 

I suspect Theo's goal is not to build a team with highly paid stars who might have a year or two of success. I suspect his goal is to get young players in their prime who can win year after year, thus giving the Cubs multiple chances at a World Series.

 

Currently, they have no "ace" caliber starters, they have no second tier starters. They have a closer who is very erratic, their best player is one of the youngest players in the league and they have virtually nothing to build around him with.

 

The Marlins, on the other hand, (relevant to a700s posts) have a good core of young players who have multiple really positive aspects to their game. The Cubs don't. Josh Johnson, Hanley Ramirez, Mike Stanton, Logan Morrison, Anibel Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco, etc., are all more promising than what the Cubs have. It makes a lot of sense why the Marlins (who also haven't spent s*** over the past 5 years) would invest in their team, particularly with a new stadium.

 

Not the same situation, despite similar results in 2011.

[SoxSport]

Am I a Valentine fan? No' date=' I am not. I think he is a different type of manager than Francona and certainly a better game tactician. Others think he will cause problems in the clubhouse. Eventually, that is a good possibility, but it will probably take 2 or 3 years. Would Valentine have made the difference last year? Very possibly he might have made the difference, but 2012 is not last season. I don't think our 2012 team as presently constructed is as good as the 2011 team. Any improvement with Valentine and the coaching staff may not be enough in 2012.[/quote']

 

 

I think they'll be better if only because Valentine should be a better game manager than Tito.Crawford is bound to rebound under Valentine, who will bat him high in the order and use his speed more effectively. Valentine has to get these guys to play more as a team, rather than as the individuals they became under Tito the last few years. I heard that criticism during the season from some observers. One way is to force runs in tight games.

 

Health will be the major factor. They can't afford to have any of their top three starters out for extended time this year, like Buchholz last year. That was the difference. They had no one to replace Buchholz. The back end of the bullpen looks good--as long as Bailey stays healthy. I'm excluding Jenks, whom I've written off as a 2 year loss.

 

On the field, Youks will have to come back strong. They missed his bat in September. I don't think Papi will repeat last year, but you never know. He was playing for a contract. Ideally, they want to sign him for one year so he's playing for another contract next year.

 

They'll be tough if they can keep their top three starters healthy, and the back end of the bullpen holds up.

[win red sox]

I think they'll be better if only because Valentine should be a better game manager than Tito.Crawford is bound to rebound under Valentine, who will bat him high in the order and use his speed more effectively. Valentine has to get these guys to play more as a team, rather than as the individuals they became under Tito the last few years. I heard that criticism during the season from some observers. One way is to force runs in tight games.

 

Health will be the major factor. They can't afford to have any of their top three starters out for extended time this year, like Buchholz last year. That was the difference. They had no one to replace Buchholz. The back end of the bullpen looks good--as long as Bailey stays healthy. I'm excluding Jenks, whom I've written off as a 2 year loss.

 

On the field, Youks will have to come back strong. They missed his bat in September. I don't think Papi will repeat last year, but you never know. He was playing for a contract. Ideally, they want to sign him for one year so he's playing for another contract next year.

 

They'll be tough if they can keep their top three starters healthy, and the back end of the bullpen holds up.

 

agreed, if we stay somewhat healthy we wil be there to the end

[example1]

Here you go. I am providing some evidence that some experts also think that we are no better than THIRD BEST in the ALE right now. The Bleacher Report ranks us at #8, the Rays at #6, and the Yankees at #2 in baseball.

Maybe you can support YOUR position with some evidence too? Guess not.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1005295-mlb-power-rankings-rating-each-baseball-team-heading-into-2012#/articles/1005295-mlb-power-rankings-rating-each-baseball-team-heading-into-2012/page/31

 

I keep waiting for the "just kidding" for this post.

 

I mean, I'm sure you can find some legitimate experts who believe the Rays are better than the Sox, but Bleacher Report is just bloggers... it's people like you and I. If we count as "experts" then there's no point in citing someone else, just spout your own opinion. If we don't count as experts then neither does Matthew Dicker, the guy who wrote this one.

 

Sporting News (Red Sox 7th, ahead of Rays):

http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2012-01-05/mlb-power-rankings-angels-rise-to-the-top

 

Buster Olney (espn: Red Sox 6th, behind Rays (1st) and Yankees)

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/olney_buster/id/7410087/behind-great-defense-dominant-pitching-rays-best-team-baseball-mlb

 

Fangraphs (end of season power rankings) (Boston 3rd)

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/fangraphs-power-rankings-10311/

 

Fangraphs (2) (based on Las Vegas Odds for 2012) (Boston 3rd)

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/odds-for-2012-world-series-converted-to-projections/

 

Another Las Vegas bookie (Red Sox 3rd)

http://www.therx.com/phillies-41-to-win-2012-world-series

 

Do I put a lot of weight in these odds? nope. But you wanted experts, so I found you experts who think the Sox were a very good team at the end of the 2011 season and will be very good in 2012.

 

Clearly it's not just a cadre of stupid posters on this site who disagree with you and the Bleacher Report guy.

[iortiz]

I'm not going to respond to all the other s*** that has been thrown on this board for the past few hours, but I will continue with my discussion with iortiz.

 

 

 

I suspect Theo's goal is not to build a team with highly paid stars who might have a year or two of success. I suspect his goal is to get young players in their prime who can win year after year, thus giving the Cubs multiple chances at a World Series.

 

Currently, they have no "ace" caliber starters, they have no second tier starters. They have a closer who is very erratic, their best player is one of the youngest players in the league and they have virtually nothing to build around him with.

 

The Marlins, on the other hand, (relevant to a700s posts) have a good core of young players who have multiple really positive aspects to their game. The Cubs don't. Josh Johnson, Hanley Ramirez, Mike Stanton, Logan Morrison, Anibel Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco, etc., are all more promising than what the Cubs have. It makes a lot of sense why the Marlins (who also haven't spent s*** over the past 5 years) would invest in their team, particularly with a new stadium.

 

Not the same situation, despite similar results in 2011.

 

Well, I already rest my case E1. I do not want to go in circles. You have your opinion, sounds solid and logic and I respect it but I don't share some passages of your opinion. Agian, IMO that team is currently horrible. I don't like what I have seen this offseason in that team. IMO they could be more aggressive (like the Fish). IMO They are weaker. Is this part of their "strategy"? fine. I don't like it. Good luck to them.

 

Said that, I think we can back to our team, the Red Sox.

[seabeachfred]

Lester- Beckett- Buchholz- Bard - Aceves is way better than what the Yankee's will have from 1-5.

 

The offense should be better than last year as Crawford cant be worse than last year and will likely improve.

 

they should also get better production from 3B .

 

Red sox had the best offense last year in terms of runs scored.

 

 

The biggest problem was pitching last year and it will be much better this year.

 

Rivera can break at any time as he's getting up there in age, Jeter is another year older and Arod hasen't been healthy in a while .

I like our chances

 

RSRules---That's about as pollyanna an assessment as I've seen in awhile, but glad to see you're upbeat and for once I don't use the word pollyanna as an epithet. You do know that for what you're predicting just about everything has to go right with us and a helluva lot of wrong has to go the Yankees way. Frankly, though, I don't see the pitching as "MUCH"s better until we get a quality starter for the 4th spot and the 5th man does a yeoman job to take the load off our so-called "Big Three".

 

When you may have to count on the likes of Aaron Short OrderCook, Andrew Millstone Millbum, Deutschland Justin Germano and Carlos Hi Ho Silva, you're asking for a lot of trouble and these guys just ain't gonna get it done. Still, kuddos to your upbeat ways.

[a700hitter]

The Marlins, on the other hand, (relevant to a700s posts) have a good core of young players who have multiple really positive aspects to their game. The Cubs don't. Josh Johnson, Hanley Ramirez, Mike Stanton, Logan Morrison, Anibel Sanchez, Ricky Nolasco, etc., are all more promising than what the Cubs have. It makes a lot of sense why the Marlins (who also haven't spent s*** over the past 5 years) would invest in their team, particularly with a new stadium.

 

Not the same situation, despite similar results in 2011.

While the Marlins do have more good young players than the Cubs, you are overstating the extent of it. Josh Johnson has had severe arm troubles over the last several seasons and there really is no reason to believe that he is a better bet to bounce back to good health and performance than Zambrano. Garza is the same age and better and more accomplished than Anibel Sanchez. Nolasco has been a disappointment. In 5+ seasons, he has had 1 season with a sub 4.50 ERA. The Cubs also have a hot young star at shortstop in Castro. Sean Marshall was one of the best lefty set up guys in the game. What has been very different is the two team approaches to the off season.

[a700hitter]

They'll be tough if they can keep their top three starters healthy, and the back end of the bullpen holds up.

I agree with this with one condition. They need another starter so Aceves can go back to the bullpen. As things are currently, Bard and Aceves are rolls of the dice as starters. The back of our bullpen is Albers, Melancon and Bailey. Last year it was Aceves, Bard and Papelbon. I don't see this year's bullpen as close to comparable with the 2011 pen unless Aceves moves back to the pen.

 

As to the health issue, when was the last time that Beckett, Buchholz and Lester all stayed healthy throughout the season? Depth important, and SIlva et al are not depth.

[FredLynn]

OK well my point is' date=' you're comparing the 2012 team to the 2011 team strictly on a player personnel basis, and ignoring the potential improvement from the changeover in managerial and coaching staff. You lauded the Valentine hiring and yet you seem to think he will be impotent in actually improving the team's work ethic, chemistry etc. which was obviously a huge factor in the demise last year.[/quote']

 

I lauded his hiring because I think he is the best person to accomplish a specific task: straightening out the clubhouse. I do not think we have the talent to make a serious run at a ring, but we have enough talent to challenge the Rays and Yankees for a playoff spot. It will take about two years to change the chemistry and obtain enough talent to go for it all.

[seabeachfred]

I'm implying that Terry had a very bad year last year.

 

Cut the crap Bob. Francona had a lot of bad years even when won. He routinely cost us between 10-12 games a year because he was one of the very worst field managers around. One reason I hold out hope is that those 10-12 games will not be lost this season because of manager malfeasance. Muggah had Terry down for nine losses going into mid-August last season. The guy cost us division titles in 2005, 2008 and 2009. He was pathetic and that is why he didn't get another managing job this season and why he will have trouble getting one down the road. We won two titles in spite of him.

[win red sox]

I agree with this with one condition. They need another starter so Aceves can go back to the bullpen. As things are currently, Bard and Aceves are rolls of the dice as starters. The back of our bullpen is Albers, Melancon and Bailey. Last year it was Aceves, Bard and Papelbon. I don't see this year's bullpen as close to comparable with the 2011 pen unless Aceves moves back to the pen.

 

As to the health issue, when was the last time that Beckett, Buchholz and Lester all stayed healthy throughout the season? Depth important, and SIlva et al are not depth.

 

who would you consider as depth?

[example1]

While the Marlins do have more good young players than the Cubs' date='[/b'] you are overstating the extent of it.

 

The Marlins are the manifestation of a rebuilding approach that has been going on for a few years now. They have the young core the Cubs hope to build over the next few years.

 

They also don't have a loyal fanbase or any hope for good income without making significant changes.

 

The Cubs and Marlins are at different places.

[example1]

Well, I already rest my case E1. I do not want to go in circles. You have your opinion, sounds solid and logic and I respect it but I don't share some passages of your opinion. Agian, IMO that team is currently horrible. I don't like what I have seen this offseason in that team. IMO they could be more aggressive (like the Fish). IMO They are weaker. Is this part of their "strategy"? fine. I don't like it. Good luck to them.

 

Said that, I think we can back to our team, the Red Sox.

 

Yes, they are a terrible, terrible team. Nobody is arguing against that. If they are going to be terrible it doesn't make much difference whether they win 72 or 77 or 80 games.

 

Every dollar spent trying to improve from 72 to 77 games is a dollar wasted.

[SCM33]

Fact: Bard pitches 150 innings in the rotation and another 20-25 out of the pen. I really saw him as our 3rd most effective reliever last year behind Aceves and Papelbum.

Fact: We had Lackey,Wakefield,Miller and Weiland as our 3-4-5, that probaly had something to due with us finishing 9th in era.

Fact: We have improved our rotation with Buchholtz, Bard, Doubrant. Melancon and Baily were both excellent acquistions and will be comparable to Bard and Papelbum.

Fact: We did finish 3rd last year, but wasn't that because of the backend of starting rotation?

Fact: Gonzales was injured after the all star break, therefore had no power in the 2nd half

Fact: Youkilis injury effected the whole lineup, no power from rt side

Fact: Crawford will show significant improvement this year

Fact: Shoppach can actually throw to 2nd base.

 

Of course you can bring up this person or that person will get injured. Every team needs a little luck with injuries.

 

I think there might be a language barrier. Replace almost all of the "Fact:" with "Opinion:" and then we got some facts.

 

This team still has a ton of question marks, mostly in the pitching department.

 

The lineup will be fine, I dont give a s*** about who plays RF and everyone knows where I stand with Salty, but we can make do....all in all, they are a VERY good offensive team. Not many can debate that. I think that Ellsbury will decline, but Crawford will improve so in the end it will cancel out.

 

Pitching.....right now, they are a mess. They have replaced Bard and Papelbon with Melancon and Bailey. We still dont know if Bard or Aceves can start and we still need someone who can provide all the innings that Aceves/Bard combined for last year in the pen if one of them, or both of them end up in the rotation.

 

We are a month away from spring training, if they have decided that Bard/Aceves will take the 4 spot with the other returning to the pen and Carlos Silva/Aaron Cook will compete for the 5th spot, we are in trouble.

 

Id rather see Doubront given a chance then those wash ups.

[iortiz]

I think there might be a language barrier. Replace almost all of the "Fact:" with "Opinion:" and then we got some facts.

 

This team still has a ton of question marks, mostly in the pitching department.

 

The lineup will be fine, I dont give a s*** about who plays RF and everyone knows where I stand with Salty, but we can make do....all in all, they are a VERY good offensive team. Not many can debate that. I think that Ellsbury will decline, but Crawford will improve so in the end it will cancel out.

 

Pitching.....right now, they are a mess. They have replaced Bard and Papelbon with Melancon and Bailey. We still dont know if Bard or Aceves can start and we still need someone who can provide all the innings that Aceves/Bard combined for last year in the pen if one of them, or both of them end up in the rotation.

 

We are a month away from spring training, if they have decided that Bard/Aceves will take the 4 spot with the other returning to the pen and Carlos Silva/Aaron Cook will compete for the 5th spot, we are in trouble.

 

Id rather see Doubront given a chance then those wash ups.

 

Well, I've been saying that this our reality. Can we win the division with this? Yes, but will be very tough and will depend of a lot of "ifs".

[win red sox]

I think there might be a language barrier. Replace almost all of the "Fact:" with "Opinion:" and then we got some facts.

 

This team still has a ton of question marks, mostly in the pitching department.

 

The lineup will be fine, I dont give a s*** about who plays RF and everyone knows where I stand with Salty, but we can make do....all in all, they are a VERY good offensive team. Not many can debate that. I think that Ellsbury will decline, but Crawford will improve so in the end it will cancel out.

 

Pitching.....right now, they are a mess. They have replaced Bard and Papelbon with Melancon and Bailey. We still dont know if Bard or Aceves can start and we still need someone who can provide all the innings that Aceves/Bard combined for last year in the pen if one of them, or both of them end up in the rotation.

 

We are a month away from spring training, if they have decided that Bard/Aceves will take the 4 spot with the other returning to the pen and Carlos Silva/Aaron Cook will compete for the 5th spot, we are in trouble.

 

Id rather see Doubront given a chance then those wash ups.

 

It was meant to be sarcastic to another posting. The point I keep on making is that our 3-4-5 last year had to be the worse in the AL and with Buchholz,Bard and Doubrant taking over the spots your getting a huge upgrade over Lackey,Wakefield,Weiland and Miller. The backend of the bullpen with Aceves,Melancon and Bailey should be fine. So while the pitching staff is not great, it is a significant improvement from Last year's staff.

[FredLynn]

It was meant to be sarcastic to another posting. The point I keep on making is that our 3-4-5 last year had to be the worse in the AL and with Buchholz' date='Bard and Doubrant taking over the spots your getting a huge upgrade over Lackey,Wakefield,Weiland and Miller. The backend of the bullpen with Aceves,Melancon and Bailey should be fine. So while the pitching staff is not great, it is a significant improvement from Last year's staff.[/quote']

 

So while the pitching staff is not great, it is a significant improvement from Last year's staff

 

Is that one of your "facts" too?

When I presented the facts, they were facts. We did, in fact, finish NINTH in the AL in ERA this year. Its also a fact that even if Bard is wildly successful as a SP, which is highly questionable, he isn't ready for a full season in that capacity. Its also a fact that he was the most effective RP we had last year, and that we lost our closer.

I guess that sarcasm is a reasonable substitute for accepting reality, given the circumstances.

[iortiz]

Latest On Extension Talks For Lincecum, Cain

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [January 11 at 9:40pm CST]

Ryan Vogelsong signed a minor league deal with the Giants exactly one year ago on his way to a breakout season. The 34-year-old pitched 179 2/3 innings with a 2.71 ERA, 7.0 K/9 and 3.1 BB/9* in 2012. The Giants liked what they saw and agreed to terms on a two-year, $8.3MM extension earlier this evening. Here's a look ahead to a couple of the Giants' other extension candidates via Andrew Baggarly of the San Jose Mercury News...

 

Tim Lincecum's agent said the Giants haven’t had dialogue with Lincecum in at least a month, Baggarly reports.

Giants VP of Baseball Operations Bobby Evans said the team hopes an arbitration hearing with Lincecum won't be necessary. "You do the best you can to find common ground, I remain optimistic we will," Evans said.

Evans said he has had "healthy, ongoing dialogue" with the representatives for Matt Cain about an extension, Baggarly reports. MLBTR’s Luke Adams looked ahead to a possible Cain extension last month.

Madison Bumgarner is also an extension candidate, as*MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes explained.

[BSN07]

While the Marlins do have more good young players than the Cubs' date=' you are overstating the extent of it. Josh Johnson has had severe arm troubles over the last several seasons and there really is no reason to believe that he is a better bet to bounce back to good health and performance than Zambrano. Garza is the same age and better and more accomplished than Anibel Sanchez. Nolasco has been a disappointment. In 5+ seasons, he has had 1 season with a sub 4.50 ERA. The Cubs also have a hot young star at shortstop in Castro. Sean Marshall was one of the best lefty set up guys in the game. What has been very different is the two team approaches to the off season.[/quote']

 

You'd give your left ballock to have JJ on the Sox staff

[Spudboy]

If the Yankee's stay put I'd say the Red Sox have a better shot at winning the Division as thing stands.

 

I am not so sure.

 

How dare you say something positive about the Red Sox!

 

:lol::lol:

 

Exactly! The audacity of this guy.....