2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

This basically my Christmas list. It seems pretty easy for Ben to get there' date=' but he should probably lock down Beltran first. You really only have one open bullpen spot, because we still have Jenks. We have to hope that he goes all out in his contract year.[/quote']

 

Ohhh I forgot fat Jenks... Why did I forget this guy?

 

Well, if he can comeback and be solid, he definetely can help Bard and Melancon to shut the games down. Would be very nice.

 

If they give up Reddick/Kalish, I see possible Beltran landing.

[a700hitter]

Us Sox fans are antsy waiting for some moves to improve the team, but I ahve to laugh that Theo and Jed took over the Cubs and have done basically nothing. They let Aramis Ramirez walk and they signed Dejesus, but that is it. And they have one crap ass team. They are starting form almost scratch. They have one player worth watching -- Castro. I wonder if they are trying to land the big fish like Fielder. If not, they need to add lots of parts and they have a bunch of money.

[a700hitter]

Ohhh I forgot fat Jenks... Why did I forget this guy?

 

Well, if he can comeback and be solid, he definetely can help Bard and Melancon to shut the games down. Would be very nice.

 

If they give up Reddick/Kalish, I see possible Beltran landing.

I'd like to forget Jenks too! :lol:

[User Name]

I can understand why some of you guys don't like Garza but the guy did pitch in the tough AL East and I thought he held his own pretty well' date=' and, let's face it guys, he did pretty well against us. I always like to have new pitchers who join the Red Sox to have some experience pitching in our division. The one guy I do NOT want to trade though is Ryan Lavarnway. In my opinion he is the next great young Red Sox right handed power hitter and we all know we haven't been very successful in developing power hitters in our farm system from either side of the plate. I just wish we hadn't resigned Ortiz so Ryan could swing right into the DH job. As it is he is going to waste a whole year of his career getting "seasoning" he doesn't really need. I just hope he doesn't stagnate like some of the other "prospects" like Anderson, Bowden, Doubrant and others have.[/quote']

 

 

Fred, what makes you think Lavarnway doesn't need more seasoning. It's fundamentally wrong to think Lavarnway's value is maximized as a DH. The Sox view him as a catcher, and rightfully so. As a catcher, every talent evaluator has said that he needs more work defensively, and the Red Sox organization concurs. How do you know more about the kid's development than them?

 

I'm as excited about the kid as everyone else, but if he's going to stay at catcher (and i hope he does) he needs more time to develop defensively.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Us Sox fans are antsy waiting for some moves to improve the team' date=' but I ahve to laugh that Theo and Jed took over the Cubs and have done basically nothing. They let Aramis Ramirez walk and they signed Dejesus, but that is it. And they have one crap ass team. They are starting form almost scratch. They have one player worth watching -- Castro. I wonder if they are trying to land the big fish like Fielder. If not, they need to add lots of parts and they have a bunch of money.[/quote']

 

Makes sense. They are on a 3-5 year plan anyway to get back into being a real contender.

[User Name]

Makes sense. They are on a 3-5 year plan anyway to get back into being a real contender anyway.

 

But it doesn't matter if you're a fan!!111!!! You can't see things with logic!!!11!!11!1

[a700hitter]

Makes sense. They are on a 3-5 year plan anyway to get back into being a real contender anyway.

and they are doing nothing in year 1? They have to do something this off season... no?

[WhiskeyBreath]

They don't have to do anything major imo. We'll see changes in that organization come the June draft and the trade deadline and from then on.

[a700hitter]

They don't have to do anything major imo. We'll see changes in that organization come the June draft and the trade deadline and from then on.

They have to do a lot. They don't need to land a big fish, but they suck it hard. They have a lot of building to do. I have read that their minor league system is not great either. If they are just going to build from the draft it will take at least 5 years for them to be a good team, not a great team.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Indeed. That's why I think they avoid the big fish and focus on improving multiple areas. Problem is, there isn't much out there in the way of free agency and they don't have the prospects to improve a lot through trade. They have their work cut out for them.

[Spitball]

I agree with you on this. I'd take Garza if we got a sweet deal on him as part of the Theo compensation. That ain't gonna happen. I don't trust that Garza has been having some arm woes. I'd rather them pursue Gio G who I think has more value.

 

I would rather have Gio Gonzalez also but fear Beane is trying to validate his latest "genius" tag generated by the movie. He apparently turned down the deal the Reds dealt to San Diego for Mat Latos.

[a700hitter]

I would rather have Gio Gonzalez also but fear Beane is trying to validate his latest "genius" tag generated by the movie. He apparently turned down the deal the Reds dealt to San Diego for Mat Latos.

At first, it may appear like he is a genius if we fork over a bunch of prospects, but I'm not worried that we will be parting with HOFers of the future. How would we feel if we were Padre fans and we got what we got for AGon? It has always been my philosophy that the primary use of prospects is as trading chips. Sometimes you have some real jewels and you keep them, but everyone else is a crap shoot. A very small percentage hit it big. We have no top talents in our organization, no Stasburgs, Stantons or Bryce Harpers.

[Spitball]

At first' date=' it may appear like he is a genius if we fork over a bunch of prospects, but I'm not worried that we will be parting with HOFers of the future. How would we feel if we were Padre fans and we got what we got for AGon? It has always been my philosophy that the primary use of prospects is as trading chips. Sometimes you have some real jewels and you keep them, but everyone else is a crap shoot. A very small percentage hit it big. We have no top talents in our organization, no Stasburgs, Stantons or Bryce Harpers.[/quote']

 

If Beane did indeed turn down the prospects the Reds just traded to the Padres for Mat Latos (who is better than Gio Gonzalez) then Beane doesn't even appear to be a genius. And, if he turned down the Reds package, I don't think the Red Sox have a package attractive enough to appease Beane.

[a700hitter]

If Beane did indeed turn down the prospects the Reds just traded to the Padres for Mat Latos (who is better than Gio Gonzalez) then Beane doesn't even appear to be a genius. And' date=' if he turned down the Reds package, I don't think the Red Sox have a package attractive enough to appease Beane.[/quote']look at the packages that the Twins were turning down from the Sox and the Yanks a few years ago for Johan and then they settled for a bag of garbage from the Mets. I wouldn't say it couldn't happen. He can take what he likes from our over-hyped stock.

[iortiz]

and they are doing nothing in year 1? They have to do something this off season... no?

 

Big market teams have to deliver results every season, no matter what. You can't wait 4-5 years and see if those " strategic plans" work out. You need to run and execute both present and future.

 

I want to see my team being a serious contender team next year and the next after that, sure, it's important to plan the future as well but you can't sacrifice your present doing the other thing. This is not KC Royals baseball. Is it easy?, no, but you have plenty access to all the resources (market, money, loyal fan base, etc.) in order to meet both objectives (present and future).

 

The Cubs have been a disgraceful and pathetic team and just as the RS, they have plenty access to resources; they have tons of money, a great and loyal fan base who follow them in every park but have had terrible FO (as our, last 3 Ys). They haven't won s*** in 100 Y. I don't see "Cub Nation" waiting other 4-5 years resting in their couches watching the POs and they don't being part of it. They want results now. This offseason. Next season. No excuses, I think they are saying.

[a700hitter]

Big market teams have to deliver results every season, no matter what. You can't wait 4-5 years and see if those " strategic plans" work out. You need to run and execute both present and future.

 

I want to see my team being a serious contender team next year and the next year after that, sure, it's important to plan the future as well but you can't sacrifice your present doing the other thing. This is not KC Royals baseball. Is it easy?, no, but you have plenty access to all the resources (market, money, loyal fan base, etc.) in order to meet both objectives (present and future).

 

The Cubs has been an embaracing and a pathetic team and just as the RS, they have plenty access to resources; they have tons of money, a great and loyal fan base who follow them in every park but have had terrible FO (as our, last 3 Ys). They haven't won s*** in 100 Y. I don't see "Cub Nation" waiting other 4-5 years resting in their couches watching the POs and they don't being part of it. They want results now. This offseason. Next season. No excuses, I think they are saying.

And a load of money came off their payroll after last season. Yet, they have done virtually nothing. People ask why would Theo trade Garza, but if he is not going to start putting together a competitive team in the next season or two, I say why not get rid of Garza while he has value.

[SoxSport]

Us Sox fans are antsy waiting for some moves to improve the team' date=' but I ahve to laugh that Theo and Jed took over the Cubs and have done basically nothing. They let Aramis Ramirez walk and they signed Dejesus, but that is it. And they have one crap ass team. They are starting form almost scratch. They have one player worth watching -- Castro. I wonder if they are trying to land the big fish like Fielder. If not, they need to add lots of parts and they have a bunch of money.[/quote']

 

I hear Henry called the Cubs' new owner and warned him about Epstein's free-spending.

[a700hitter]

I hear Henry called the Cubs' new owner and warned him about Epstein's free-spending.

I heard the Cubs owner is refusing to give the Sox compensation for Theo, because he realizes that he made a mistake, but JH will not take Theo back. He said that if he wants to throw money away, he'd invest with Madoff.

[iortiz]

And a load of money came off their payroll after last season. Yet' date=' they have done virtually nothing. People ask why would Theo trade Garza, but if he is not going to start putting together a competitive team in the next season or two, I say why not get rid of Garza while he has value.[/quote']

 

Good point, unless they sign Fielder, Beltran, and trade garza for another big bat or something, etc. before this offseason ends.

 

Yes, they haven't done virtually nothing. There's still time, but I'm not sure how Cub Nation feels these days.

[iortiz]

I heard the Cubs owner is refusing to give the Sox compensation for Theo' date=' because he realizes that he made a mistake, but JH will not take Theo back. He said that if he wants to throw money away, he'd invest with Madoff. [/quote']

 

[User Name]

Big market teams have to deliver results every season, no matter what. You can't wait 4-5 years and see if those " strategic plans" work out. You need to run and execute both present and future.

 

I want to see my team being a serious contender team next year and the next after that, sure, it's important to plan the future as well but you can't sacrifice your present doing the other thing. This is not KC Royals baseball. Is it easy?, no, but you have plenty access to all the resources (market, money, loyal fan base, etc.) in order to meet both objectives (present and future).

 

The Cubs have been a disgraceful and pathetic team and just as the RS, they have plenty access to resources; they have tons of money, a great and loyal fan base who follow them in every park but have had terrible FO (as our, last 3 Ys). They haven't won s*** in 100 Y. I don't see "Cub Nation" waiting other 4-5 years resting in their couches watching the POs and they don't being part of it. They want results now. This offseason. Next season. No excuses, I think they are saying.

 

Lol @ this post. Sense of entitlement.

[seabeachfred]

Lavarnway needs more time to develop his catching skills. He won't do that playing every fifth game. His hitting is there' date=' but Ortiz's hitting is far superior. If you're pissed about missing the playoffs last uear, you should prefer Ortiz crushing it at DH than inserting a rookie with minimal experience. If Lavarnway has a respectible game #162, there would have been a one game playoff. He wilted under the pressure.[/quote']

 

If Ortiz is crushing it at DH next season I will beat a hasty verbal retreat. My question is can he duplicate those stats now that he's 36? He has been a notoriously slow starter save last year and I'm not sure if he has another banner season in him. If he does we are in good shape. For the first time in years he actually mashed LH pitching. Can he do that again? As for Lavarnway he wilted under pressure, as you say, in the last game while Crawford, Salty, Lester and others wilted the whole last month. I do remember Ryan hitting two bombs the game before.

 

I'm hoping it all breaks well for us next season. We're due for a big smile from Dame Fortune.

[seabeachfred]

I concur, I don't like Garza but I think he would be a good pitcher for us and he's proven he can handle the AL East. And no they absolutely can't trade Lavarnway.

 

Why are the Cubs looking to trade Garza anyway? This is the new Cubs gunning for a World Series right? Are they that deep in pitching?

 

Bellhorn, I'm not sure the Cubs are trying to trade Garza. I sent up a trial balloon a couple of weeks ago about trading for him and the discussion, both pro and con, was underway. My point was that Matt has pitched under the pressure of competing in the AL East, has pitched well in Boston and has had a couple of gems in Yankee Stadium. Most of us would agree that our division is a real head buster and people coming from the other league or from another division in our leage can sometimes have a major adjustment to make and not all of them make it. As for Lavarnway, glad you agree with me on that. When he finally gets the chance to be a starter for us, I'm predicting there will be many who will say why did we wait so long to give his young man a chance. Just my belief.

[seabeachfred]

Us Sox fans are antsy waiting for some moves to improve the team' date=' but I ahve to laugh that Theo and Jed took over the Cubs and have done basically nothing. They let Aramis Ramirez walk and they signed Dejesus, but that is it. And they have one crap ass team. They are starting form almost scratch. They have one player worth watching -- Castro. I wonder if they are trying to land the big fish like Fielder. If not, they need to add lots of parts and they have a bunch of money.[/quote']

 

True 700 but look at the division they're in. The Brewers are losing their big slugger Prince Fielder, the Cards have lost the best player in the league, Houston sucks and Pittsburgh is still years away from contention, if ever. That leaves Cincy and last year they severely underachieved. They could still challenge even with their crapola team and equally crapola front office.

[seabeachfred]

Fred, what makes you think Lavarnway doesn't need more seasoning. It's fundamentally wrong to think Lavarnway's value is maximized as a DH. The Sox view him as a catcher, and rightfully so. As a catcher, every talent evaluator has said that he needs more work defensively, and the Red Sox organization concurs. How do you know more about the kid's development than them?

 

I'm as excited about the kid as everyone else, but if he's going to stay at catcher (and i hope he does) he needs more time to develop defensively.

 

Now that Ortiz has been resigned User my argument doesn't hold much of anything, but I am of the firm belief that he is capable of being a 30 homer man. I think he is that good. Since I've done some scouting, when you get a player with this kind of bat you find a place for him. Why not give him some work in RF next Spring or some in left in case we don't see anything better in Crawford. We all know he can't hit lefthanders with a paddle. The kid is going down to work on his defense but I would like to see what he could do in some games in the OF. You never know.

[User Name]

Now that Ortiz has been resigned User my argument doesn't hold much of anything' date=' but I am of the firm belief that he is capable of being a 30 homer man. I think he is that good. Since I've done some scouting, when you get a player with this kind of bat you find a place for him. Why not give him some work in RF next Spring or some in left in case we don't see anything better in Crawford. We all know he can't hit lefthanders with a paddle. The kid is going down to work on his defense but I would like to see what he could do in some games in the OF. You never know.[/quote']

 

Why would you significantly harm his value by turning him into a mediocre OF when you can have him be an average defensive catcher with an elite bat?

 

Hard-hitting OF's are not that hard to find, 20+ HR, good OBP catchers are one of the most valuable commodities in baseball.

 

I'm just sayin'.

[mvp 78]

Lavrnway is way too slow to play RF at Fenway. There's a reason they switched Manny over to LF when he was signed. Lavarnway just needs more innings catching.

[a700hitter]

True 700 but look at the division they're in. The Brewers are losing their big slugger Prince Fielder' date=' the Cards have lost the best player in the league, Houston sucks and Pittsburgh is still years away from contention, if ever. That leaves Cincy and last year they severely underachieved. They could still challenge even with their crapola team and equally crapola front office.[/quote']Fred, you are probably right that it is a pretty weak division. The Brewers had a very strong team, but losing Fielder and the Braun suspension will gut that team. The Cards could still be a very strong team if the sign Beltran to play RF and move Berkman to 1B. The Reds picked up Latos today from the Padres. The Padres got a nice package of prospects plus Volquez.

[Elktonnick]

Lavarnway is a smart kid who would benefit more from playing now in the majors than another year in tripleA IMHO

[a700hitter]

Lavarnway is a smart kid who would benefit more from playing now in the majors than another year in tripleA IMHO

At some point one of the catchers will go down with an injury and Lavarnway will be nice depth from the minors and he'll get his chance to win the spot.