2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

Yeah I thought of that as I was typing it. Assuming they do not win the WS or make a deep PS run, they will be in the same position.

 

Look at the Phillies - their fans aren't up in arms because they went out and signed Papelbon immediately. They filled their needs when they had the most options. Cherington is putting a lot of eggs into one or two baskets as he watches FA's fly off the radar every day.

Plus the Phillies did win their division and made the playoffs.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Plus the Phillies did win their division and made the playoffs.

 

Yeah but with the preseason hype and their quick exit, fans were up in arms.

[a700hitter]

Yeah but with the preseason hype and their quick exit' date=' fans were up in arms.[/quote']Yes, they were up in arms, but they have had a lot less to be up in arms about than Sox fans. I'd love to have swapped teams with the Phillies at the end of the season.

[User Name]

I see what you're saying. I was just explaining how most people think they know better than the FO.

 

The whole rhetoric about people having an emotional investment in the FO and its members is a strawman set up to hide undue criticisms and general whining due to a fundamental misunderstanding about how the Hot Stove season works. Teams work at their own pace, and you can't judge the finished product until the product is, well, finished.

[SoxFanForsyth]

And why is that a bad thing? We've watched the Red Sox f*** up FA signing after signing' date=' and go nuts about it. The fact that they're taking their time and letting the market come to them shouldn't be held against Cherington, specially on his first year as GM. He will be heavily scrutinized, so he better be careful and certain about each and every one of his signings.[/quote']

 

He still has plenty of time to turn this into an excellent complimentary offseason. I'm not expecting him to make any record breaking deals, but there have been very few reports regarding any potential happenings for the Sox this offseason, which is frustrating in and of itself.

 

Maybe the Sox sources have become a little more tight lipped after all of the leaks from the September collapse, and if so, then that's great in terms of negotiations. This could well be the case, too, because the deals for Punto and Melancon both came out of no where. If this isn't the case, though, then the lack of reports is a bit concerning.

[redsoxrules]

The Blue Jays bid more than $40MM and possibly close to $50MM for Yu Darvish and are now favorites to win exclusive negotiating rights with him, George A. King III of the New York Post reports. Multiple sources confirm the Post's report to Jim Bowden of MLB Network Radio and ESPN.com, who says the Blue Jays "won the bidding

"

[User Name]

He still has plenty of time to turn this into an excellent complimentary offseason. I'm not expecting him to make any record breaking deals, but there have been very few reports regarding any potential happenings for the Sox this offseason, which is frustrating in and of itself.

 

Maybe the Sox sources have become a little more tight lipped after all of the leaks from the September collapse, and if so, then that's great in terms of negotiations. This could well be the case, too, because the deals for Punto and Melancon both came out of no where. If this isn't the case, though, then the lack of reports is a bit concerning.

 

The two main issues with the Sox right now are a legitimate closer (They've been linked to Madson and Cordero) a starter (They've been persistently linked to Gonzales via trade and Oswalt). They're working on it, is what i'm trying to say.

 

The Sox were the best offensive team in the Majors last year while getting nothing from LF and RF. They don't need to add a RF, they need to add a platoon RF, even though they may break the bank for Beltran, who they've also been linked to.

 

The needs of this team have been overblown by a panicking Red Sox fanbase. Last year's collapse was an aberration, and mostly the cause of weak managing. If the roster is completed in satisfactory fashion (Another BP arm, starter, good OF) this team is yet again a contender.

 

The world is not ending.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yes - I agree that their biggest needs are a closer and a SP. Bard can close for us, so I think the SP is the most pressing need. I would like to hear them checking in on more than just Gio and Oswalt, that's all I'm saying.

[User Name]

Edwin Jackson should be an option, but the market for him has developed slowly. Saunders is not ideal, but given his durability, he should be a guy they keep an eye on.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Edwin Jackson should be an option' date=' but the market for him has developed slowly. Saunders is not ideal, but given his durability, he should be a guy they keep an eye on.[/quote']

 

I like Saunders as depth, not necessarily a top 5 guy. Problem is, he won't take a deal as positional depth.

 

EJax I'd take, but I think our best bet would be obtain someone who is cost efficient via trade.

[SoxFanForsyth]

jonmorosi Jon Morosi

#Athletics would love to get a future third baseman for Gio Gonzalez. #Rangers prospect Mike Olt (1.197 OPS in AFL) is one possibility

 

Damn. Is Gio Gonzalez worth Will Middlebrooks, especially with the inconsistent Youkilis at 3B right now? Tough call.

[WhiskeyBreath]

I don't understand the interest in Oswalt. It will probably take a 3 year commitment to land Oswalt and some pretty big dollars. Giving that to a 34 year old guy with years of back issues just doesn't seem like a good risk to me. Hell there was talk of retirement this past season with the guy.

 

I'd rather see them trade Youk and try to acquire a SP through trade.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I don't understand the interest in Oswalt. It will probably take a 3 year commitment to land Oswalt and some pretty big dollars. Giving that to a 34 year old guy with years of back issues just doesn't seem like a good risk to me. Hell there was talk of retirement this past season with the guy.

 

I'd rather see them trade Youk and try to acquire a SP through trade.

 

I'd trade Youk + a mid-level prospect for HanRam. No question about it. Even though he's a bit of a defensive liability at SS, he may be ok with moving to 3B if he's on a team that is going to compete every year.

 

Why haven't we heard any more about Garza? I thought he was on the block. Cherington better be doing everything he can to get his foot in the door for a trade for Garza. That's one player I would definitely dish WMB and Lavarnway for.

[a700hitter]

Damn. Is Gio Gonzalez worth Will Middlebrooks' date=' especially with the inconsistent Youkilis at 3B right now? Tough call.[/quote']I would do it if they are not asking for too much more. Middlebrooks has had no success beyond AA yet, and the success at AA isn't screaming "Pujols". Gio is a valuable commodity, and he will probably retain that value for a few years.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I would do it if they are not asking for too much more. Middlebrooks has had no success beyond AA yet' date=' and the success at AA isn't screaming "Pujols". Gio is a valuable commodity, and he will probably retain that value for a few years.[/quote']

 

I'd rather throw Lavarnway + Theo's "return" in there with the deal and get Garza. And based on what Beane is asking from other teams, that may be the only difference in the package.

[a700hitter]

Why haven't we heard any more about Garza? I thought he was on the block. Cherington better be doing everything he can to get his foot in the door for a trade for Garza. That's one player I would definitely dish WMB and Lavarnway for.

and compensation for Theo is completely forgotten. The compensation we got was the full page newspaper Thank You card from Theo to the fans.

[SoxFanForsyth]

and compensation for Theo is completely forgotten. The compensation we got was the full page newspaper Thank You card from Theo to the fans.

 

Haha pretty much. But they could work it in there somehow, even if it was a bag of seeds. If anything, just include it to put the who situation to rest.

[a700hitter]

I'd rather throw Lavarnway + Theo's "return" in there with the deal and get Garza. And based on what Beane is asking from other teams' date=' that may be the only difference in the package.[/quote']I would go for that too.

[User Name]

I don't understand the interest in Oswalt. It will probably take a 3 year commitment to land Oswalt and some pretty big dollars. Giving that to a 34 year old guy with years of back issues just doesn't seem like a good risk to me. Hell there was talk of retirement this past season with the guy.

 

I'd rather see them trade Youk and try to acquire a SP through trade.

 

Color me surprised if Oswalt gets more than a two-year deal.

 

What i don't understand is the fascination with Gonzales. Sure, he's young and cheap, but he's also wild, and has very significant split problems.

 

Good candidate to implode at Fenway.

[WhiskeyBreath]

The compensation for Theo will be a nothing prospect. I laughed my ass off when people first brought up Garza or Castro in exchange.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The compensation for Theo will be a nothing prospect. I laughed my ass off when people first brought up Garza or Castro in exchange.

 

Including Theo's compensation via a throw-in on a trade could make Sox fans feel like they got something in return while letting Cubs fans feel like they didn't give up anything. It's a win-win situation! :thumbsup:

[WhiskeyBreath]

I'd trade Youk + a mid-level prospect for HanRam. No question about it. Even though he's a bit of a defensive liability at SS, he may be ok with moving to 3B if he's on a team that is going to compete every year.

 

 

So would I. I'd rather move Youk for pitching or prospects that turn into pitching though.

[Spitball]

Jays apparently have won the rights to Darvish and have (I believe) three days to sign him. Now, maybe we see some movement on the availble pitchers out there.

[iortiz]

Because it's all subjective. Everyone's opinions are the best in their own mind. So if it is my opinion that we should go trade for Gio, while the FO thinks we should build a bullpen and move Aceves and Bard to the rotation, in my mind, I know better than the FO, and thus the criticism.

 

People will only criticize if the FO did something that they don't agree with. If they don't agree with it, they think that another option would have produced a better outcome, and thus they know better than the FO.

 

+1. Claps here please. As simple as that.

 

Of course, we don't have the accurate details of the whole business operation, but when they make moves and you notice that out there are better options (from our perspective), even simple fans as us can emmit and why not a better judgements. Hell, the FO doesn't have super powers or something, actually they have showed lacks of business execution.

 

Actually, I find out some people even in this board with better judgement than the front office at times. But again that is my opinion, of course.

[Bellhorn04]

Jays apparently have won the rights to Darvish and have (I believe) three days to sign him. Now' date=' maybe we see some movement on the availble pitchers out there.[/quote']

 

It's a thirty-day window to sign.

[iortiz]

I'd rather throw Lavarnway + Theo's "return" in there with the deal and get Garza. And based on what Beane is asking from other teams' date=' that may be the only difference in the package.[/quote']

 

I like this but I think you will need more than this syth to get Garza. IMO that Theo-return values at most 1 or 2 mid class prospects, no more.

[Spitball]

It's a thirty-day window to sign.

 

Right. Three days wouldn't make sense.

[Elktonnick]

How can anyone know better than the FO?

 

Actually you have it backwards, how can the front office not know as much as we do!

[Elktonnick]

I would say your "wrong direction as usual". I didn't include you in it' date=' but there are people who like to spout their opinion as fact, and their speculation as real. This is fact.[/quote']

 

I don't get that sense but if you do then fair enough.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I like this but I think you will need more than this syth to get Garza. IMO that Theo-return values at most 1 or 2 mid class prospects' date=' no more.[/quote']

 

Well here's the thing - Beane is asking for the world in return for Gio. So a package that would get Gio Gonzalez would be something like Reddick + Ranaudo + Middlebrooks.

 

If we just added Lavarnway to that, a package of Ranaudo + Middlebrooks + Lavarnway + Reddick would probably net us Garza. Throw in "Theo's compensation" to please the Sox fans (they think we got something out of it) and the Cubs fans (they never saw a prospect leave their farm system, and added 4 solid prospects to it), and you've given the Sox an elite 1-4, solved the Theo's Compensation debacle, and kept Bard in the bullpen where he can close out games with Melancon as the set up man.